Re: Gretsch USA-DW Collectors Shoot Out
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Ricardo
OK -- this will do the trick -- I'll be interested in the result (tell Rick it's OK to be curious and have a fun project).
But my prediction holds.............I bet they are both ridiculous-good.
I've recorded my USA Customs and had fun..............the 24 causes the engineer to pause but once he makes the adjustments, it rocks.
BTW..............I'm a big fan of the Shure B52.
In the studio where I have done most of my recording, the kit is in a separate, enclosed room and completely isolated............we play the song as a band with the intent of keeping only the drum tracks. Once we get the drums where they should be, we build other instrument tracks from that point forward.
I love the approach..............although the big pressure is on me first, once it is over, I get to sit at the board for the rest of the day and learn from observation.
Yep, had drums in an isolated room too. One thing I found that hindered my own creativity was the separation between the other players in the room. I rely on eye contact and I also watch where the hands are on the fret of the guitar. If you ever have a chance to catch "Studio City", a documentary produced and directed by Dave Grohl, you'll see why we choose to record in one big room.
http://i845.photobucket.com/albums/a...psed6495d8.png
http://i845.photobucket.com/albums/a...ps7aeab0c5.png
Stuck the guitar amps in separate rooms. This one was in the toilet.
http://i845.photobucket.com/albums/a...ps685a5828.png
Here's different studio recording situation with the drums in a different room, on a separate floor (two story recording complex). Played to a click and I didn't have to re-track the drums but the studio had no "vibe".
http://i845.photobucket.com/albums/a...ps0e71b222.jpg
Re: Gretsch USA-DW Collectors Shoot Out
"Studio kit" lol! They told me it was a Gretsch. When I showed up, it was a freaking Catalina. I should of brought my USA Customs... :doh:
http://i845.photobucket.com/albums/a...ps1ebb2894.jpg
Nice heads too...
http://i845.photobucket.com/albums/a...ps4837bb3d.jpg
http://i845.photobucket.com/albums/a...psb7584500.jpg
Re: Gretsch USA-DW Collectors Shoot Out
Quote:
Originally Posted by
late8
Stuck the guitar amps in separate rooms. This one was in the toilet.
I have worked with guitarists that would fit well in there.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
late8
Unforgivable.....................
Re: Gretsch USA-DW Collectors Shoot Out
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Ricardo
I have worked with guitarists that would fit well in there.
Well played! :clap:
Re: Gretsch USA-DW Collectors Shoot Out
Wait a minute here! Help me, cause maybe I'm not seeing this correctly. In the diagram of the DW suspension system, are the black rings meant to be held by (behind) the turret lugs?
If so, then tell me...whats the difference if you simply have one mount bolted to the shell that hold the tom (like drums were for decades) and eliminate all the unnecessary chrome steel from the fronts of the drums? It appears to have just gone full circle. Confused
all the best...
Re: Gretsch USA-DW Collectors Shoot Out
Quote:
Originally Posted by
kay-gee
Wait a minute here! Help me, cause maybe I'm not seeing this correctly. In the diagram of the DW suspension system, are the black rings meant to be held by (behind) the turret lugs?
If so, then tell me...whats the difference if you simply have one mount bolted to the shell that hold the tom (like drums were for decades) and eliminate all the unnecessary chrome steel from the fronts of the drums? It appears to have just gone full circle. Confused
all the best...
No. It's just a rubber ring that prevents any metal on metal or metal on wood contact. The entire thing floats, but makes contact with both the lugs and shell at times.
Re: Gretsch USA-DW Collectors Shoot Out
Bumping this up. Moved the DW kit into my friend's home recording yesterday studio afternoon to continue recording some original material as we have been doing with the Gretsch USA kit. We used his piano and tuned the toms according the the timbre pitch stamped on each shell. However, we didn't bother tuning the snare which is a 6.5x14" 6 ply Gretsch USA maple/gumwood with Silver Sealer added to the interior ply of the snare shell.
7x8" -A
8x10"- Eb
9x12" - G#
11x14"- Eb
16" roto- Bb (added)
18x22" - F
http://i845.photobucket.com/albums/a...psjsujfy7l.jpg
As we listened to a short recording of just the drums with no EQ added and heard the distinct notes at which each drum was tuned at and we were equally impressed with the clarity and the tone from each drum.
http://i845.photobucket.com/albums/a...psgpxntien.jpg
I added a 16" roto floor tom with a Remo clear single ply Ambassador head and it complimented the 11x14" tom very well.
http://i845.photobucket.com/albums/a...psm1hsfhde.jpg
http://i845.photobucket.com/albums/a...psuo2kujkv.jpg
Re: Gretsch USA-DW Collectors Shoot Out
With cymbals added:
7" Sabian HHX splash
10" Sabian AAX splash
14" Zildjian K Custom Dark hats
16" Zildjian K Custom Dark crash
18" Zildjian K Custom Dark crash
20" Zildjian K Custom Dry ride
14" Zildjian A Fast crash
http://i845.photobucket.com/albums/a...psaui0dwnd.jpg
After recording with my buddy for almost 4 years, I still feel the overheads are too far away from the toms and have suggested using close up micing techniques and use the D series Audix mic for the rack toms but we haven't crossed this threshold yet.
We recorded a scratch track with guitar and vocals yesterday and over dubed the bass and plan to over dub the drums later to clean up the mix. I think I'll try to make my case again to close mic the toms to get them into the mix without having to drive the overhead mics so hard.
Drum mics:
Snare- Shure Beta 57
HiHats- Audix i5
Kick reso- Shure Beta 52A
Kick batter- Audix D6
Overheads- (2x) CAD 95 series (1x) AKG T-170
http://i845.photobucket.com/albums/a...psih5beo2b.jpg
The rack proved itself again as a valuable tool to reduce the footprint of the kit in very tight quarters:
http://i845.photobucket.com/albums/a...ps6ccb6c7f.jpg
Re: Gretsch USA-DW Collectors Shoot Out
Love that kit, Rich. Looks incredible.
Re: Gretsch USA-DW Collectors Shoot Out
Quote:
Originally Posted by
marko138
Love that kit, Rich. Looks incredible.
Thanks!
Re: Gretsch USA-DW Collectors Shoot Out
Those K's look dreamy. Kit looks right at home in the studio. There's just something about the clarity of the note that until you've played a DW up close, you really don't know what you are missing.
Still the cleanest sounding drums out there. But, alas, I'm partial to my BB's but I know how pure those DW's sound.
Very cool, Rich! Thanks for sharing.
Re: Gretsch USA-DW Collectors Shoot Out
Quote:
Originally Posted by
marko138
Love that kit, Rich. Looks incredible.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Bish
Those K's look dreamy. Kit looks right at home in the studio. There's just something about the clarity of the note that until you've played a DW up close, you really don't know what you are missing.
Still the cleanest sounding drums out there. But, alas, I'm partial to my BB's but I know how pure those DW's sound.
Very cool, Rich! Thanks for sharing.
+2................Rich, that DW kit is absolutely gorgeous!..............I can feel a case of G.A.S. coming on!
Re: Gretsch USA-DW Collectors Shoot Out
I've owned a DW Collectors kit and a Gretsch USA Custom kit for about eight years. I too have set them up side by side and have done a similar shoot out. Your observations are spot on and explained well.
The Gretsch has a warmer tone and records great. The Gretsch kit in the photos was played in clinics by Stanton Moore and Hannah Welton. I ended up trading that particular USA Custom kit to a friend that borrowed it for a bunch of recording projects. I had picked up a secnd set of Gretsch drums, the second kit is from 1972. I traded the walnut Gretsch kit for an Ampeg SVT Classic head, SVT 810E, and a SVT 212AV cabinet. I did okay.
The DW has a clear, clean, bell like quality to the toms in particular. And yes, the toms sound tune super easy. If you hit two toms together on the DWs, it sounds almost like playing a chord. Daniel Glass used this kit for a local clinic a few years back. This is the kit that I play out live most of the time.
http://i280.photobucket.com/albums/k...schkits004.jpg
To me neither is "better" than the other.
Re: Gretsch USA-DW Collectors Shoot Out
Wow. I disappear for a while and late8 buys a DW. Beautiful looking kit. I bet it sounds great.
Re: Gretsch USA-DW Collectors Shoot Out
Quote:
Originally Posted by
drummer5359
That is an impressive photo.
Not only does it display the best in American drum shell craftsmanship but it also reflects a beautiful natural wood finish contrasted by a sparkling glass-wrap.............two of my favorites.
Every set of drums I've ever owned were natural wood finished.............my old USA shells are Ebony maple gloss.
I had an old Slingerland (1964) snare refinished in conventional silver sparkle two years ago and it is stunning.
Bish had a glass Pearl kit that was gorgeous too..............one of the most beautiful wraps I have ever seen.
Those are two good looking sets, 5359.
Re: Gretsch USA-DW Collectors Shoot Out
Added an older photo of 1977 SSB USA Customs....................13, 15, 18, 24:
http://www.drumchat.com/picture.php?...ictureid=10202
Re: Gretsch USA-DW Collectors Shoot Out
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Bish
Those K's look dreamy. Kit looks right at home in the studio. There's just something about the clarity of the note that until you've played a DW up close, you really don't know what you are missing.
Still the cleanest sounding drums out there. But, alas, I'm partial to my BB's but I know how pure those DW's sound.
Very cool, Rich! Thanks for sharing.
Thanks Mark! I'm in the process of getting some sample audio files together with a slide show edited in Microsoft Movie Maker (which I despise) to demonstrate the differences I hear between the two kits which will conclude this "shoot out".
Quote:
Originally Posted by
longgun
+2................Rich, that DW kit is absolutely gorgeous!..............I can feel a case of G.A.S. coming on!
Thanks Butch! What ya got in mind?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
drummer5359
I've owned a DW Collectors kit and a Gretsch USA Custom kit for about eight years. I too have set them up side by side and have done a similar shoot out. Your observations are spot on and explained well.
The Gretsch has a warmer tone and records great. The Gretsch kit in the photos was played in clinics by Stanton Moore and Hannah Welton. I ended up trading that particular USA Custom kit to a friend that borrowed it for a bunch of recording projects. I had picked up a secnd set of Gretsch drums, the second kit is from 1972. I traded the walnut Gretsch kit for an Ampeg SVT Classic head, SVT 810E, and a SVT 212AV cabinet. I did okay.
The DW has a clear, clean, bell like quality to the toms in particular. And yes, the toms sound tune super easy. If you hit two toms together on the DWs, it sounds almost like playing a chord. Daniel Glass used this kit for a local clinic a few years back. This is the kit that I play out live most of the time.
http://i280.photobucket.com/albums/k...schkits004.jpg
To me neither is "better" than the other.
Great review and comments
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Ricardo
That is an impressive photo.
Not only does it display the best in American drum shell craftsmanship but it also reflects a beautiful natural wood finish contrasted by a sparkling glass-wrap.............two of my favorites.
Every set of drums I've ever owned were natural wood finished.............my old USA shells are Ebony maple gloss.
I had an old Slingerland (1964) snare refinished in conventional silver sparkle two years ago and it is stunning.
Bish had a glass Pearl kit that was gorgeous too..............one of the most beautiful wraps I have ever seen.
Those are two good looking sets, 5359.
I agree 100% with this post!
Re: Gretsch USA-DW Collectors Shoot Out
Re: Gretsch USA-DW Collectors Shoot Out
Quote:
Originally Posted by
rickthedrummer
Thanks Rick............looks better...............how is that done ?
Man................I love that old kit.
http://www.drumchat.com/picture.php?...pictureid=9826
Re: Gretsch USA-DW Collectors Shoot Out
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Ricardo
I just love that band name!!! :clap:
Re: Gretsch USA-DW Collectors Shoot Out
Ricky,
If you use photobucket, once you upload your picture, click on it and it will go to where you have a edit whatever, click that and then above it should be several whatever's, 1 of which will be resize. There are 2 numbers above the picture, you just use the 1 on the left. Click the right hand side of it to erase it, and if the picture is too small, make the number bigger (don't worry about the numbers on the right, they take care of themselves.
After you adjust the numbers, click apply to see how big the picture is. If it's too big or too small, keep adjusting the numbers on the left until you get the size you want, then hit save. The picture will be moved to where you can copy it and bring it to DC or wherever.
Simple stuff. Only took me 8 years to figure it out.
Just practice at it, work on a picture, bring it to DC reply, put it in the box but don't post it. Hit preview, and see how it is. If you are using photobucket, you are just bypassing the edit and therefore the resize. It is a bag of shells.
Re: Gretsch USA-DW Collectors Shoot Out
Re: Gretsch USA-DW Collectors Shoot Out
Hard to tell about the toms and bass but the snare on the Gretsch kit is so much better than the DW kit. More defined might be the best way to describe it. Both kits do sound great though.
Re: Gretsch USA-DW Collectors Shoot Out
Quote:
Originally Posted by
rritter
Hard to tell about the toms and bass but the snare on the Gretsch kit is so much better than the DW kit. More defined might be the best way to describe it. Both kits do sound great though.
Thanks rritter. I think it's in the mix because I used the same snare on both audio clips; a Gretsch USA all maple 6.5x14" (pictured with the USA kit below).
Brought the DW kit home yesterday and had time to set up both kits today. Walked back and forth between the two and I noticed right away the Gretsch is louder and the toms project back into your face. In my opinion, the DW has musicality but will get buried in the mix without being mic'd. The Gretsch has the edge on volume. Both are very unique and the differences were made obvious today.
http://i845.photobucket.com/albums/a...pskrorouze.jpg
Re: Gretsch USA-DW Collectors Shoot Out
Yes you are likely right about the mix having some differences. I have given a second listen and as I said both kits sound great. The Gretsch snare is a great sounding drum. Hang on to that one.