Hey guys, what is the difference between an open roll to a closed roll?
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Hey guys, what is the difference between an open roll to a closed roll?
Open rollls are singles and closed rolls are doubles.
Thanks for clearing that up got slight confusedQuote:
Originally Posted by Jackie
That's actually not really correct. An open roll is a double stroke roll and a closed roll is a buzz roll, also referred to as a press roll.
So open is one rebound and closed its more reboundsQuote:
Originally Posted by drummer
correctomundoQuote:
Originally Posted by drummer
Open and closed rolls are both double stroke rolls not to be confused with buzz rolls. When demonstrating a double stroke roll it starts off slow or open, then speeds up closing the roll. All rudiments are typically played open to closed and back to open
No.Quote:
Originally Posted by keish
The difference between open multiple bounce rolls and closed multiple stroke rolls are the number of rebounds per stroke.
Normally an open stroke roll is 32 notes per measure 4/4 time while a closed roll or press roll is about 64 (not exact as we are trying to achieve a textured sound)not rudimental precision,but an orchestral sound.
check out my video ,I start with a closed orchestral roll and move to more open double stroke rolls.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xd5NJAULMTw
Wow this is interesting. I've always just called them single, Dbl., triple, and buzz. I've always thought that a buzz and a press were the same, but not real sure. I've only recently become interested in Dbl. and triples. I use to think that you had to actually play each note, or it was cheating. Man I've had some dumb philosophies. And to think, I've been playing over 40 yrs. MORON.
Open or closed.....I'll take a biscuit over a roll any day.
What we're finding here is that there are different interpretations of certain rudiments and styles. It's been that for years concerning open/closed rolls, press/buzz rolls, playing on the back of the beat, the Moeller method and so on. Some of it largely depends on who taught you or what book you were working out of. I learned that closed rolls were the same as a buzz roll but I have heard the interpretations mentioned by Billy H. and they make sense to me. What really matters is that you have enough stick control that you can play anything on call.
They are the same. A buzz roll is a press roll.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lefty
Yes, you do have to play them exact. Unlike a buzz or press roll where you don't have to play an exact number of stickings. That's what they also use the phrase "Multiple Stroke Roll", because it isn't exactly defined.Quote:
I've only recently become interested in Dbl. and triples. I use to think that you had to actually play each note, or it was cheating.
I've played in drum corps and played in orchestral settings.
The orchestral / concert setting does not care about sticking,only the note or texture required(many scores use the term trill for a roll,but want they want is a quavering or vibratory sound),while if you are playing drum corps,it all about sticking and precision.
If you've ever seen a Frank Zappa score ,there is no sticking ,only the notes and even then it can vary depending upon the conductors interpretation.
I thought press rolls actually depend on pressing beginning strokes into the head( and you could hear each as an accent, sort of) whereas buzz rolls have no time strokes since the sticks are rubbed in circular motions across the head. So playing the two is different in technique and sound but can be used interchangeably. Easier to use a press roll playing in time as in a song, but easy to use a buzz when doing an intro for an event where no music is involved.
very interesting reads in here.
I like hearing all the different interpretations
Still confused but have been working on triple strokes lately. I have 3 hits/one hand motion . per hand. Got up to 144 bpm yesterday. Seems easier the faster the tempo.
Some notes from a couple of books I practice out of.
In Emil Scholle's 'The Roll,' he has us play each exercise three ways: 1. Controlled double bounce. 2. Controlled triple bounce. and 3. The "Hit Free Bounce" also called a buzz roll, which bounces "many times."
In George Lawrence Stone's 'Stick Control,' he calls the open roll "a rudimental roll of no more than one bounce." Clearly he considers a single stroke to be an open roll. He says the closed rolls has "several rebounds to each stick movement." He cautions not to confuse the closed roll with the "exaggerated type of roll known as the "scratch roll" produced by digging the sticks down into the drum head, with muscles tense, at a ridiculously high rate of speed, for which the author, nor indeed any musician, has any use."
For the record, both are great books.
> open roll "a rudimental roll of no more than one bounce
That's correct ,but your interpretation is not(Clearly he considers a single stroke to be an open roll).
It is a down stroke followed by one bounce (RrLlRrLl)
If he had said 'exactly one bounce' I would agree with you. But he said 'no more than,' which implies the inclusion of single stroke rolls.Quote:
Originally Posted by pgm554
Some of the old texts books are either obtuse or wrong from time to time.
Read a Haskell Harr text sometime and there are errors that nobody takes the time to correct or point out.
Same difference here.
But some of the folks I've studied with in the past (Jack van Geem from San Francisco orchestra) say differently,Stones book is mistaken.
Can a single stroke roll be interpreted as an open roll?
Yes.
Is it the preferred definition of a open roll?
No,it's double stroke based.
Somebody needs to rewrite some of these texts and bring them up to date.
Well I agree with all that. Stone is not the be all and end all, but I referenced it because he is a well known commodity. Well, I really referenced it because of his snobbish remark about scratch rolls.
I would never refer to a single stroke roll as open, simply because I have always defined the openness as being related to the bounce. But I'm willing to consider different view points.
I was taught that a closed roll is always doubles; and that an open roll is any other.
It was easy to remember this way:
An open roll is open for discussion.
So to be clear, 'any other' includes triple and multiple bounce rolls? If so, that is the exact opposite of what seems to be the consensus.
I don't disagree....................my percussion department chair was a weirdo.Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnnySticks
lolQuote:
Originally Posted by ricardo