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Thread: Band Management

  1. #26
    Larrysperf Guest

    Default Re: Band Management - "Firing" a band member

    Quote Originally Posted by Quadcam79 View Post
    Well we had practice tonight and as expected our guitarist proceeded to show up with 2 friends, a 5th of run and six pack of beer. Now, I'm not against people having a couple drinks during practice, I have maybe 1 or 2 but it's just not my thing anymore.

    Our guitarist however, cant seem to go through a 2 hr practice without getting hammered. I have jammed with my bass player alone and it's great, we get together, get right down to business and really work on the songs. When we have Chris with us we get nothing done.

    Tonight was the last straw, he was busy drinkin, chowin down some burgers, goofin off with his friends and we end up playing the same 4 songs we were working on last week. I said "did you learn the songs that I gave you from last week?" he says "nah, man I just really didnt get around to learning them"

    I should have sent him packin after the first time he got drunk at practice but I like the guy and I let it go. Now, it's becoming a problem and I figuer if he cant make it through a 2 hr practice he's never going to make it through a 4 hr gig at a bar.

    our bass player does admit that he's borderline alcoholic but he shows up, has a few beers, doesnt get wasted and stays focused on what we're doing.
    I think the other issue is the rest of the band are all in their mid 30's-40 and the guitarist is 22.

    So I hate to do it but he's out of the band. I didnt feel like discussing it with him tonight and we have practice again tomorrow so i felt kinda guilty when he said ok, man I'll see you tomorrow. I told the bass player "no we wont, he's done"

    have any of you had an issue like this?
    Yes but it was years ago and the problem was drugs lead and singer were into them the rest of us not so it did end in break up. Sad thing was we were on our way

  2. #27

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    Default Re: Band Management

    Glad I'm a old fart playing in a band with old farts. We've already gotten all our ya-ya's out! We're only in it for the music now.

    all the best...

  3. #28

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    Default Re: Band Management

    Close yes, but not at practice. Just in life in general. I think that you are taking your music career more seriously than your band mates. Practice is just that, PRACTICE. Not a time to party, drink, or bring friends. For my band now, we have a very professional practice, we have goals to reach, things to accomplish, transitions and lighting cues to work on. So we always have things to get done.
    www.fadesaway.com

    Matt...
    Fades Away

    Forever I am Forgiven, and Forever, I will Rejoice.


  4. #29

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    man I feel like such a tool, the guitarist called to tell me that he might not make practice tonight, obviously he hasnt checked his email where I told him it isnt going to work out.
    So I called him back to tell him whats up, he didnt say much other than "aight man, I gotcha"

    I dont know why i feel so guilty about kicking him out, he basically did it to himself. I think it's just that I like the guy, when he isnt drunk and obnoxious he's a decent guy and fun to hang out with. Man I feel like I just had to dump a girlfriend LOL

    meanwhile the other guy who responded to the ad for lead guitar is going to be back in town a week early and he's ready to try out. hopefully it works out because it isnt easy to find musicians in my area.

    http://bipolarbarbierocks.com

    Quote Originally Posted by fiacovaz View Post
    Quit belly aching and just do it...no other way.
    - RIP Frank

  5. #30

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    Default Re: Band Management

    So, Since the day I got rid of our first guitarist we have tried out a few more.
    the first one was pretty good, not great on vocals but he had some nice blues licks and whatnot.

    Apparently he was trying out for 4-5 other bands and was ready to jump into a band and start gigging. He ended up going with a working band.

    the other day we get a 2 for 1 deal, (brother in laws) these guys have been playing in bands together for 20+ yrs The came to try out and man they had some really good skills. But, again more issues. I had sent our song list to them ahead of time and they didnt say anything bad about it so I figured it was all good.

    first thing the one guy does when he gets to practice is hand me his folder of song lyrics and says "here are songs that we already play" ok I look it over, some good, some not good as far as a cover band goes.

    So we jam a little and like I said playing skills weren't a problem. Next thing I say "so do you know anything off our list?" and he looks at the whiteboard and says "well ya know man, i really hate country...." looks more"well ya know, man I really hate rap/hip hop" looks more "man, i really cant stand Poison"

    So then he says "you know I think it would be better if you guys just learned the songs we already know and then we can maybe move onto your list" ...I should have stopped right there, said thanks for coming by, see ya. but of course I didnt.

    then they say "well we have about 8-10 real good original songs why dont we try and play one and see how it goes" now instead of just playing the riffs for me and letting me get my own personal style drum groove in it he's dictating exactly how the song goes.
    So I go along with it but he's trying to have me slow down and playing ahead of me, i played guitar long enough to hear the chord changes and strumming patterns that I cant just slow down and play behind the pattern.

    anway we get that out of the way and then work on a foo fighters cover for a bit. So this guy decides to do all of the singing, which is steppin on toes because my wife is our singer but she was ok with it since we wanted to hear his vocals.

    anyway after we finish they ask if we want them to come back and I think i was so amazed that we had guitarists who could actually play that I was like yeh, sure.

    later on my wife says "you realize that you and him are gonna butt heads, he's already trying to take control and make things his way" I said yeh I'm realizing that and I dont like it.

    I call the guy the next day and I mention the original songs and how I dont think they should be mixed into a cover band. I suggest maybe we can have a seperate band, same members different name and we'll work on originals there. he says "no need, we're going to play originals in the cover sets, 30% originals"

    I think that was the beginning of the end for me.
    I asked the bass player and he thinks maybe we should give em a shot and see where it goes, see if they even bother to learn the songs we gave them. But honestly the more I think about it the more I know they just arent right for our band.

    I know exactly what I'm looking for and that is high energy guitarists with a good stage presence and decent skills who are open to playing different genres. These guys dont fit that mold and the one seems to want to just come in and take over my band.

    http://bipolarbarbierocks.com

    Quote Originally Posted by fiacovaz View Post
    Quit belly aching and just do it...no other way.
    - RIP Frank

  6. #31

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    Default Re: Band Management

    Best advice I ever had...If it doesn't feel right in the gut, don't go with it. I've been there and can honestly tell you that if you compromise on your own standards and expectations, then you deserve what you get. Never, ever settle for less than what you expect and never give up control of your group. The worst that can happen is that it might take you longer to get where you're going but you will get there.
    There's a lot to be said for Time Honored tradition and value.

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  7. #32

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    Default Re: Band Management

    Yeah What Frank Said,,,,
    "FEEL DA GROOVE & PLAY IT FORWARD..."

    "BEAUTY IS IN THE EARS OF THE BEHOLDER ,
    ENJOY IT ALL,,, MY BROTHERS & SISTERS"

    COMMANDER & CHIEPH OF
    "PHROGGE'S AQUARIAN ARMY"

    CHARTER MEMBER OF THE "OUR
    LADY OF DA NEW BEAT CONGREGATION"

    LEGEND IN MY OWN MIND
    & FORCE BEHIND DA
    "PHX AZ LEGEND OF DA ZYDECO TIE"
    (AND OTHER TOYZ)

  8. #33

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    Default Re: Band Management

    I put out another ad, this time I got even more detailed. I have had two responses so far and at least one seems to be a real good fit, we'll see.

    I'll keep ya posted

    http://bipolarbarbierocks.com

    Quote Originally Posted by fiacovaz View Post
    Quit belly aching and just do it...no other way.
    - RIP Frank

  9. #34

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    Default Re: Band Management

    wow, lots of solid advice. I'm glad I'm seeing this.
    PHROGGE'S AQUARIAN ARMY
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  10. #35

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    Default Re: Band Management

    Ok I hope I can post this because it really is a great resource
    Basic Band lighting guide, about 40 pages in pdf, free to download.
    explains fixtures, dimmers, controllers, LED's, FX lighting, terminology, lazers, Trussing, DMX, putting a system together, example rigs and more

    download link http://www.box.net/shared/hl7oxy4bd6

    also there is a web seminar on the different lighting options
    http://djsprovideo.primcast.com/djsp...727-stream.wmv
    Last edited by Quadcam79; 07-31-2009 at 03:29 PM.

    http://bipolarbarbierocks.com

    Quote Originally Posted by fiacovaz View Post
    Quit belly aching and just do it...no other way.
    - RIP Frank

  11. #36

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    Default Re: Band Management

    I have been in quite a few bands now, and it seems that the consistent issue has been a gradual separation due to a lack of communication, and a bad decision making process. The band I am in now runs very smoothly and I believe one big reason why is that we meet with an outside, objective person (who happens to be a life coach) once a week to help bring out, and discuss any underlying issues. This has helped us to work out, and solve problems that we didn't even know were there.

  12. #37

    User Info Menu

    Default Some people just don't get it

    So now that we found our lead guitarist I placed another ad on Craigslist looking for a Keyboard player, we play a wide variety and keys would be a huge help.

    I get a reply and it says

    "Hi,

    I liked your short vocal track on facebook. Your band’s name and logo made me wonder a little. Seems so… “gender specific.” Isn’t it better to simply be“Bipolar” than to advertise one’s self as bipolar? “Barbie” is somewhat more positive (although, certainly not among homely girls)… In case you’re interested to know, the name initially repelled more than attracted me. I guess I thought something along the lines of “this is for chicks,”…or, “it’s all about crazy chicks, no thanks.” I envisioned punk rock, body-piercings, screaming, arm biting, blue hair, mosh pits, etc., etc.. But, in the text of your ad you sounded fairly normal and cool. I must admit this leads me to a little cognitive dissonance. I should sleep. Brain needs to reboot.

    I’m a keyboard player. Is your practice location in Fernandina Beach? Do you have sheet music for the tunes you’re currently covering? I’m not into drugs and I’m in your age bracket. I don’t know everything there is to know about music. There is much to learn. But, I do currently teach 6 beginner to intermediate piano students. "

    Now really...our band name is Bipolar Barbie, it's just a name and it's funny and since my wife is lead vocals the name just worked. Most people love it, but it seems this guy either has no sense of humor or he just put way, way too much thought into it.

    http://bipolarbarbierocks.com

    Quote Originally Posted by fiacovaz View Post
    Quit belly aching and just do it...no other way.
    - RIP Frank

  13. #38

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    Default Re: Band Management

    I like it Dave, don't worry about this guy.
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  14. #39

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    Default Band business plan

    Since running a band is pretty much like running a small business I came up with a business plan for our band, does this sound good or does it seem like i'm going overboard?



    Band Business Plan

    Vision- become a popular cover band within a 2-3 hr radius of Jacksonville. play good, danceable music from a variety of genres.with emphasis on entertainment, showmanship and crowd participation.
    Members conduct themselves professionally (arriving on time, learning the material to the best of thier ability, working together to load in/set up/tear down gear, act professionally when dealing with club owners, booking agents, potential clients, etc.)

    Goals :
    - Have fun, put on the best show that we can and set ourselves apart from the typical cover band
    - Create a strong web presence through website and social networking sites.
    - acquire professional level /reliable gear and full PA system. Minimum of either mixer/powered speakers or powered mixer and
    two 12" main speakers and one 18" powered subwoofer, Mic's and stands for each band member.
    - find a reliable local sound guy
    - maintain a minimum 60 song playlist of songs to choose from
    - Steady paying gigs by April 2010
    - make a minimum of $500/gig
    - Book gigs at wedding receptions, private parties, bars/clubs, festivals and corporate events

    Sources of income:
    - gigs
    - merchandise (t-shirts, stickers, etc.)

    Financials: income projections(?) break even estimate (?)

    Expenses: fixed expenses (?), variable expenses (food, gas, drinks, replacement parts)

    Marketing plan: advertising -newspapers, promotional products, banner ads, music based website,
    press releases, interviews, message boards, blogs, press kits, e-press kits, CD demo
    business cards, word of mouth, classified ads, street team, vehicle signs.

    Product design-manufacture: Shirts, Stickers

    Fan interaction: email lists, flyers, posters


    ownership/pay/gear etc.

    Decision making: **** is the originator of the band and the band leader however, playlist, gig and rehearsal schedules will be a democratic process, each band member will have a vote and majority rules.

    When discussing potential gigs with clients members should not quote a price until the gig has been discussed between all band members and everyone has come to an agreement.

    gig pay should either be split evenly between band members or pooled and used toward the purchase of additional band equipment.

    profit from sale of merchandise should be pooled and used to purchase/maintain band equipment.

    "Bipolar Barbie" name and images are property of ****

    http://bipolarbarbierocks.com

    Quote Originally Posted by fiacovaz View Post
    Quit belly aching and just do it...no other way.
    - RIP Frank

  15. #40

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    Default Re: Band Management

    Quadcam, I think your business plan answers a lot of questions for the band, and is something that everyone can refer to later if questions come up. I also think that listing the vision and goals for the band can help make sure everyone is pulling in the same direction (although it certainly won't guarantee it). As the band leader, I also think it will help clarify which band members are pulling together and which band members are not. Although not every band will want such a document, I personally think it's a professional way to go. As a former business owner, I can say that having such things spelled out saves a lot of headaches down the road.
    Quoting gonefishin: Just have some bacon with ya when you go pick her up..........youre an instant chick magnet.


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  16. #41

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    Default Re: Band Management

    Hey Guys, just thought I'd contribute to the thread with some points that have really helped me along the way. Here's a few points to start, I'd like to see this thread growing rapidly instead of slowly fading away

    General

    • Make sure everyone in the band has similar long term goals and emake sure all members prioritize the band equally. There's nothing worse than 3 of you taking it seriously, and one member slacking off and not putting any effort in. Actually, there is something worse - when you're stuck with 3 other people who don;t want to put the effort in!


    • Don't take yourselves too seriously


    • If there is no musical communication between bandmates, or you can't connect musically, you're going to be stuck playing to them, rather than with them




    Rehearsals

    • In my (very short, but still worthwhile) experience, rehearsals should be just that. Rehearsing with the band as you would play on stage - including playing, actions, effiency and behaviour - there's nothing worse than getting to a rehearsal and someone hasn't practiced their part and try to learn it while everyone else sits around for half an hour.


    • When we first started out, we used to play how we could in the space - facing each other with our amps all pointing to the middle too. Now, everyone can hear each other more clearly if we set up as we do on stage, with amps tilted back like monitors.


    • Just as members should learn their parts in their practice time, and rehearse with the band during rehearsal time, song lists should also be agreed outside of the rehearsal room, making the most of the limited time you have.


    • With the whole thing about treating a rehearsal as you would a gig - turn up early and set up, so you're ready to go when the rehearsal starts.


    • Save your ears - wear earplugs!


    Gigs

    • Early is on time, on time is late. Always show up early to set up and soundcheck, ready to start at your designated time


    • As mentioned in the rehearsals section - wear ear plugs!!


    • Print business cards and take them to every gig - get someone to hand them out, leave some on the edge of the stage and put some on tables around the place (if in a pub or bar)


    Business

    • Watch out - no-one eneters a business agreement unless they think they are benefiting for it.


    • Try to avoid, or at least watch out for the "here are X amount of tickets. When they are all sold we will pay you X amount per person that turns up" gigs. Not worth it IMO.
    Mapex Drums | Zildjian and Meinl Cymbals | Evans Drumheads | Pro Mark Drum Sticks

  17. #42

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    Default

    Some very good info on this thread!

    Just some personal experiences from me...

    I've just finished school so I'm not one of those full working bands. Have couple gigs/yr. My band consists of class mates (hey look where Greenday is now ) We started off as 3 person band which went well.

    One thing that didn't help which frustrated me in the inside but never told me bands mates was how I was 'experienced' (ok 7 years of drumming isn't much lol). But compared to my other two bands members who had only just been playing their instruments for half a year when we started was annoying at all times. Here I was wanting to perform and compose our own music when the rest of my band didn't know much except how to interpret tabs for the covers we played! I would help them most of the time rhythmically in how they played. My musically ability was far higher then there's (I hope I'm not being brought across as bragging). Luckily, two years later, they have improved immensely!

    We recently had a new member join. He used to be in same class as me when I lived 4 hours away from where I do now. He has an awesome voice and great rhythm guitar skills and it was all our band really needed! Except for the fact he lives 4 hours drive away from all of us (he is moving up to Perth next year yay!) So when the time came when he would be in Perth and we got the band together, he and I knew it was important to rehearse, and not practice our pieces. Unfortunately, the other two members didn't really get that. They spent the first hour practicing what they had to play while me and the singer did basically nothing! It does get annoying, especially when you can't jam as much due to traveling distances. I have brought that issue across to the other two members and hopefully they have learnt!

    Another issue is that the two of us (me and the singer) want to start producing our own music while the other two members are happy to play covers for another year. They do get a buzz when we start making our own ( as we all do ) but it dies off and we go back to playing covers. It is important to discuss these things with your band mates, and I haven't learnt that yet! I want to discuss things like this and more with my band mates but every time stuff like that is brought up there is something uncomfortable in the air. I guess it is slowly talking about topics like this (and that are stated in the above posts) that will make it more at ease. Any other suggestions as to how to go about this?

    I also want encourage the other band members to get some musical understand, wether it be by reading books, watching DVDs or doing some courses. I want this to be, so we can all understand each other with the one language that communicates all - music. Then with that hopefully we can create songs which sound good (I always feel bad when i try tell the lead guitarist or bassist that what he is playing does not suit the feel of the song lol)

    A great thread and I hope more insight and help can be brought across regarding my issues and others!
    Last edited by Brady; 12-17-2009 at 06:25 AM.

  18. #43

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    Default Re: Band Management

    Brady, well the only thing I could offer is playing covers in gigs pays for equipment and recording time, as you know until you get successful enough to have demands for your own music, you have got to pay the bills, as i have said in the past, if you are in this for a profession then treat this as just that, maybe the others are not seeing it that way, and a discussion is in order. I was just in that situation with the last band I played with, I only wanted to play original music not covers, but lost out to the others and was let go! they went on playing gigs mostly at bars and such, and three out of the four ended up divorced from their spouses, then eventully broke up the band. Point of story is, if everyone is on the same page then all will work out, the other two that don't practice on their own before rehersal, then maybe they are not as divoted as you and singer.
    Enjoy the Music!

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  19. #44

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    Default kicked out guitarist out today, wow.........

    just wow, I mean dude went off. like a 12 yr old throwin a temper tantrum.
    I had been debating kicking him out for awhile, he started playing in our band in september and at first everything was cool but then things changed. He slowly started trying to take over, we changed our rehearsal day for him, he went through the song list and whined about 1/2 the songs, he noodles constantly, you cant hold a conversation because he wont stop playing and he's really ADHD........ also he is 35 yrs old.

    Finally I just couldnt take it anymore, I asked the other band members what I should do and the bassist says "well man, it's your band, do whatever you think you need to do". my wife pretty much said the same thing and the other guitarist is brand new only been with us a few weeks but this guy brought him in, I didnt get to talk to him about it till after.

    So I called the guitarist today and told him that this just isnt working out, since I cant write much of what he said I'll just say that he threw a fit and said "if this was just your decision then I'm going to form a band and i'm taking you song list and we'll play all of your stuff and you'll be sorry that you kicked me out and we'll be rockin and you'll still be in the garage........"

    Keep in mind we play covers... he's taking our songs? LOL, ok take em

    He went on and on, I talked to the other guys and they said they're stayin but this guy says he talked to em and they are going to his band.
    Then it was blah blah blah, you suck, you suck as a drummer, you're just a control freak.......and on and on, finally hung up on me after some choice words.

    This dude is totally unstable, I mean wow seriously throwing a major fit over a cover band you've only been in for a few months?

    my wife knows me well enough that she trusts my judgement about people. when i meet someone I get an instant vibe that i know if i can trust this person or theres something not right. So she says, you've been dead on about everyone so far and I always told her there was something that just didnt sit right with me about this guy. So today she tells the bassist this and says, I think he's right again, this guy is just unstable.

    I dont know if the other guys are leavin and goin with him and I told them they are free to do what they want, I wont be upset about it. I do like our other guitarist and bassist a lot but whatever they do is cool with me.
    Last edited by Quadcam79; 01-24-2010 at 08:48 PM.

    http://bipolarbarbierocks.com

    Quote Originally Posted by fiacovaz View Post
    Quit belly aching and just do it...no other way.
    - RIP Frank

  20. #45

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    Default Re: Band Management

    Better that he's gone now Quad. Dont worry guitar players are a dime a dozen.

  21. #46

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    Default Re: Band Management

    yeh well i've been though at least $1 worth LOL, I've never met so many flakes as lead guitarists, just something about em.

    http://bipolarbarbierocks.com

    Quote Originally Posted by fiacovaz View Post
    Quit belly aching and just do it...no other way.
    - RIP Frank

  22. #47

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    Cool Re: Band Management

    You sure dat "kids" name wasnt "bi-polar"???
    Ya dont need him,,,,
    alot was said from hurt(nobody likes gettin kicked out)
    if they do leave....buy a big ol puter and prgrm parts!!!!
    You da man(just ask yer wife),,,,things are for a reason my phriend....
    If ya need me im here for ya....
    "FEEL DA GROOVE & PLAY IT FORWARD..."

    "BEAUTY IS IN THE EARS OF THE BEHOLDER ,
    ENJOY IT ALL,,, MY BROTHERS & SISTERS"

    COMMANDER & CHIEPH OF
    "PHROGGE'S AQUARIAN ARMY"

    CHARTER MEMBER OF THE "OUR
    LADY OF DA NEW BEAT CONGREGATION"

    LEGEND IN MY OWN MIND
    & FORCE BEHIND DA
    "PHX AZ LEGEND OF DA ZYDECO TIE"
    (AND OTHER TOYZ)

  23. #48

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    Default Re: Band Management

    Thanks guys, I had a feeling the guy had a few screws loose. I guess I didnt realize just how right I was till it all blew up. So yeh, I feel bad that it went down that way but I dont regret my decision.

    Imma take my thread and write a book on the dynamics of running a cover band. LOL
    Last edited by Quadcam79; 01-25-2010 at 03:24 AM.

    http://bipolarbarbierocks.com

    Quote Originally Posted by fiacovaz View Post
    Quit belly aching and just do it...no other way.
    - RIP Frank

  24. #49

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    Default Re: Band Management

    Quadcam, I can imagine that what you did has spared you a hundred headaches down the road. Tough thing to do, but you did the right thing.
    Quoting gonefishin: Just have some bacon with ya when you go pick her up..........youre an instant chick magnet.


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  25. #50

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    Default Re: Band Management

    Quadcam - I feel your pain. I've been gigging on and off since the 70s, and when I'm not actively gigging or playing I really miss playing, but rarely miss being in a "band."

    One of the toughest things in the world is assembling a decent band. And by decent, I'm not talking about talent, I'm talking about playing together as a unit. One of the few things more difficult is keeping everyone together and focused. In the rare instances it works, well, cherish them, it doesn't happen all that often.

    Guitar players are basically a dime a dozen. The one tiny piece of advice I'd like to offer would be to look for attitude over aptitude. If the individual has a good attitude, decent chops, and really wants to play and be a part of something bigger than his next solo - you're on the right track. Many times in the past I've played with people who weren't in danger of setting the world on fire initially, but in time they develop to be a part of the band in their playing, rather than a soloist who sees everyone else as supporting cast.

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