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Thread: Can You Teach An Old Dog New Tricks?

  1. #1

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    Default Can You Teach An Old Dog New Tricks?

    Some back ground.
    I played seriously from 1976-1985 and did quite well for myself. Although I was totally self taught and sin of sins, never sat and studied the rudiments, I just did everything by ear.

    Now after a 24 year break, I have started playing again in March of this year and have been pleasantly surprised how much has come back (although lacking pace) and how many new things I seem capable of.

    However, I really want to do it properly this time and have thought long and hard about lessons to master the rudiments etc. I must be honest and say I have no desire to learn to read music and running my own business, I am not sure I have the spare capacity to take it on board anyway.

    Two other things concern me.
    1) As I am set in my ways, is it really possible to teach an old dog new tricks?
    Have any of you ever taken lessons many years down the line - how did you get on?

    2) I have also looked at a lot of teachers via their websites and have been, to be honest, shocked at how poor some of their own playing is! I am not comparing myself to them, but you know something is not right when their timing is out and you can spot lack of natural ability a mile off.

    So I am very much open to suggestions. What would be a good course of action? I really feel I need some guidance or are there some dvds that would help me out.

    I know we are all different, but I'd appreciate some feedback.
    Thank you in advance.
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  2. #2

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    Default Re: Can You Teach An Old Dog New Tricks?

    Cuban...Best advice I can offer is to look for gigging drummers in your area who are associated with local music stores as Teachers. I know of several in my area and they are excellent Teachers because of their current playing. Always fresh and on top of their game. You already have the prerequisite of being able to discern those who have the skill and those who don't. Good luck!
    There's a lot to be said for Time Honored tradition and value.

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  3. #3

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    I understand the saying, "You can't teach an old dog new tricks", especially the older I get. But I don't believe it has to apply to your life. It comes down to mindset and determination. Many people have accomplished great things later in life. I would put that saying out of your mind and just go for it.

  4. #4

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    Default Re: Can You Teach An Old Dog New Tricks?

    Thanks for the replies.

    I feel my mindset has never been better to want to do this and I am known for not quitting, although ironically, the only time I quit on anything was the drums due to impending family life.

    For sure I am on the look out for a good teacher, but hopefully one that could accept me where I am and perhaps work with what I have and build on it, rather than taking me back to a day one lesson as the only way to do things, if you understand what I am saying?

    The DVD route was naturally not even an option back when I quit in the 80's, so it is something for me to now consider for sure, but there are thousands out there, so what is good and what is not? Ideally if anyone can recommend a good rudiments program, I'm all ears!
    PROUD TO BE ENDORSED BY DUALLIST PEDALS
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  5. #5

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    Default Re: Can You Teach An Old Dog New Tricks?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cuban View Post

    The DVD route was naturally not even an option back when I quit in the 80's, so it is something for me to now consider for sure, but there are thousands out there, so what is good and what is not? Ideally if anyone can recommend a good rudiments program, I'm all ears!
    For starters, go to drumrudiments.com. There are free videos for every single rudiment performed by an experienced pro. Start with just a few of the basic ones... single, double, paradiddle, drag, flam, etc. and get those up to speed before tackling the others.

    As for books cd/dvds, a couple of the favorites for drums are Tommy Igoe, "Groove Essentials" and Carmine Appice's "Realistic Rock". You can go pretty far with those.

  6. #6

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    Default Re: Can You Teach An Old Dog New Tricks?

    Never too old and its never too late to learn. Along with the above comments from Frank and drummer , it may be a good idea to ask for referrences .

    It seems there are a lot of people who pick up 1 or 2 things about drums and right away want to start giving lessons .

    Best of luck .
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  7. #7

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    Default Re: Can You Teach An Old Dog New Tricks?

    Ok, i am in the same situation!.. maybe off the beaten track ( no pun intended ) but "once a drummer...always a drummer".. to steal a quote..." just do it".. but still practice makes perfect and perfect makes permanant! just check out some of the fantastic drum clinics here on the Chat.. they are excellant..and...duplicate. if you had the talent that you say you have it will my friend come back.
    Enjoy the Music!

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  8. #8

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    Default Re: Can You Teach An Old Dog New Tricks?

    A great teacher once told me,

    "Nothing will take the place of perseverence. Talent will not, money will not, time will not."

    Qualitative, focused, repetetive practice will help you achieve anything in the whole world you want to do as far as drumming is concerned. Nothing else...

    MP
    www.markpusey.com

  9. #9

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    Default Re: Can You Teach An Old Dog New Tricks?

    Hi Mark

    I appreciate you taking the time to reply, I know you are a busy guy right now, congratulations on
    hitting the top 10!

    You are of course correct and since my original post, I am coming around to the fact that the majority
    of this will be down to my own hard work, but with a guiding hand.

    I have now spoken to three tutors at three different levels and all are willing to help, so I must decide
    my own path and I am painfully aware of the mammoth task I face.

    Strip away all I can do, replace it with a rudiment such as a paradiddle and without exaggeration, I am
    reduced to playing like I am a week one student.

    Quite how I am going to train my mind to focus on basics is going to be tough, but I really want to
    find a timed daily routine to set myself to work with the basics and to then work with a tutor to make
    sure the less obvious (sticking etc) is correct.

    It seems odd that after so long playing (even allowing for the break) that I find myself wondering how
    many months or years of daily practice will it be before I can play the rudiments?

    Can you guys recall how long it took you to have a good grasp of them and to be able to incorporate
    them into your playing? I know we never stop learning, but throw me some hope!
    PROUD TO BE ENDORSED BY DUALLIST PEDALS
    Drums: Phil Collins Pearl DLX | Pink Floyd DW Exotic Bird's Eye | Natal Bubinga Custom Fusion | Cymbals: DIRIL & UFIPeDrums: 2Box DrumIt 5
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  10. #10

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    Default Re: Can You Teach An Old Dog New Tricks?

    well I'm pretty much in the same boat, played for about 5 yrs when I was a teenager, self taught except for a maybe 2 months worth of lessons that I took at one point. Then life got in the way and I sold the kit and hadn't played in 15 yrs.

    Then back in Feb of this year I got a kit as a gift from my wife and I started playing again. I started taking lessons, I feel like a beginner and in many ways I am but I'm really glad I started taking lessons, my playing has greatly improved and now I am able to sit down and concentrate on learning, that wasn't possible when I was a teenager, I wanted to go from beginner to pro overnight and had the attitude of who needs rudiments, who cares about 1 & 2 & 3 & 4 &, I just want to rip through 200 BPM double kicks. Not very conducive to actually learning.

    now I just take it slow and steady, learning rudiments one at a time and working my way through the "syncopation" book.

    So, to answer your question, yes, you can teach an old dog new tricks as long as that dog is determined to learn.

    I try and practice for at least 30 mins a day, if i cant do that I will break out the practice pad and do something even if it's just 5 mins or singles and doubles at low speed, it's all about building that muscle memory

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    Quote Originally Posted by fiacovaz View Post
    Quit belly aching and just do it...no other way.
    - RIP Frank

  11. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by drummer View Post
    For starters, go to drumrudiments.com. There are free videos for every single rudiment performed by an experienced pro. Start with just a few of the basic ones... single, double, paradiddle, drag, flam, etc. and get those up to speed before tackling the others.

    As for books cd/dvds, a couple of the favorites for drums are Tommy Igoe, "Groove Essentials" and Carmine Appice's "Realistic Rock". You can go pretty far with those.
    Agreed, rudiments can give you foundations for set-run you never thought U could do. Think a simple triplet, snare/tom/snare, alternate the drums out, fast, perfect fill. Check out some YouTube stuff, lot's to see.

    Bottom line, NEVER to late to learn!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    Last edited by Tam; 08-02-2009 at 01:27 AM.
    Currently electronics, with some "real" cymbals and a few accesories.

  12. #12

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    I recently took on an older pupil who is fifty (still younger than me though) who stopped playing about ten years back, he has a big repertoire of bad habits, that are going to be hard to break.
    I have had to take him right back to the beginning.
    His worst problem was that he played high hat with his left hand, using a traditional grip, all the time, and could not define which hand he lead with at any point.
    We will persevere and suffer together until we get it right !
    "It don't mean a thing if it ain't got that swing"

  13. #13

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    i think i said it in another thread, but what im doing is playing a few chosen rudiments:
    i like to think my 1 hour training a day contains 3 sections;
    [1]-the basics of the basics
    [2]-paradiddle stuff
    [3]-flam stuff

    [1] - 1-1, 2-2, 3-3, 4-4, simple enough


    [2] - paradiddle in all forms, + mixing them up this way
    *1* --> paradiddle *2* --> double paradiddle *3* --> triple paradiddle

    so

    1+1+3 / 1+3+1 / 3+1+1
    1+2+2 / 2+1+2 / 2+2+1

    this way u get para combinations that sum up to 4/4 and sound natural.
    first i did these combinations with the following accents:
    on paradiddle -> RlrrLrll
    double paradiddle -> RlRlrrLrLrll
    triple paradiddle -> RlRlRlrrLrLrLrll

    each unaccented note, is not a normal note but a GHOST note, so these excercises are great to practice dynamics, go from accents to ghosts all the time

    after about a month my teacher told me to practice these combinations with new accents, this time, normal paradiddle stays the same but double paradiddle is now Rlrlrr Lrlrll, and triple paradiddle is RlrlrlrrLrlrlrll, as you figure, this time only accent the first stroke in each paradiddle. took me about 2 weeks to even this with the speed of the former paradiddle accentuation

    3 - flam excercises

    the 6 flam excercises i practice

    flam , flam tap , flam accent , flam 3 (flam and the 2 taps, not really a rudiment, goes lRrr rLll), flam 4 (flam then 3 taps) and flamaddidle

    after that i mix them up, like with the paradiddles

    *1* --> flam tap *2* --> flam 3/flam accent *3* --> flam 4/flamadiddle

    like the para combinations, you form 4/4 excercises just the same

    1+1+3 / 1+3+1 / 3+1+1
    1+2+2 / 2+1+2 / 2+2+1

    this time, 2 and 3 each represent 2 different things, so it means more excercises to practice. id say the combinations with flamadiddle and flam accent are harder to master in the beginning than when they're with the flam 3 and flam 4, but after you get the muscle memory they are actually easier to get faster at because they have less strokes in a row with each hand


    i practice each excercise in a way that it takes about 1:15 hour for about 3 months now, and proud to say im yet to miss a day, and i feel now i can master each rudiment id like much much much easier than before

    what a long post lol
    Last edited by Hedon-; 08-06-2009 at 02:10 PM.

  14. #14

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    Agreed, Hedon, I've said same thing. Even older-rustier drummers can "freshen" up by practicing the basics.
    Currently electronics, with some "real" cymbals and a few accesories.

  15. #15

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    yeah and i think if you have the willpower to keep up this routine for many years you GOTTA end up a technical monster

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