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Thread: Speed and Timing

  1. #1

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    Default Speed and Timing

    I noticed a lot of my fills seemed to be pretty simple and repetitive and seemed to emulate each other in some way. I figured it had something to do my rudiments. Also I noticed if there is a fill that requires speed I either 1. Lost my timing and it came out wrong 2. Went so fast I broke a knuckle with a stick 3. Get all fouled up with my hands.

    The timing im sure will come in time and I supose the hitting my hands with my sticks is sloppy play.

    Ive been working on the Bohnam triplets because I really like the way these sound, plus I think it leads to more sounds ive heard that interest me.

    Basically I have a few questions. Some related to above and some not so much that ive come up with over the past few days.

    1. What can I do to help my speed.
    2. What can I do to help broaden my fill's library.
    3. Curious, about how far should your beater be from the head of the drum in Idle. (im guessing its mostly personal preference)
    4. Is there a good site out there that could help me with a more newbie approach to recording in a more "professional" manner? (ie mics, computers, ect.)
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  2. #2

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    Default Re: Speed and Timing

    Quote Originally Posted by ciulmer View Post

    1. What can I do to help my speed.
    2. What can I do to help broaden my fill's library.
    3. Curious, about how far should your beater be from the head of the drum in Idle. (im guessing its mostly personal preference)
    4. Is there a good site out there that could help me with a more newbie approach to recording in a more "professional" manner? (ie mics, computers, ect.)
    1) I have had TONS of students ask me the same question. The answer that I have found works for nearly all of them is to slow things down and work with a metronome. Start at the tempo that is slow enough that you never mess up and then move it up slowly until you start making mistakes and work at that new tempo till the mistakes disappear. Repeat until you reach the desired tempo.

    2) I highly recommend Rod Morgenstein's DVD "Putting it All Together." The section on incorporating ghost notes into fills is especially good. It took things to a new level for me. The video is a little old but the material is totally relevant.

    3) You're right - personal preference. I don't even think about mine. In general, if I am playing at a softer dynamic level or faster tempo my beater is closer to the head but, again, I don't think about it much.

    4) I think there are some links in the forum about this. Do you want to post to YouTube or something? You can get a great basic mix by getting two good overheads, a snare mic and bass mic. The quality of the mics is important, but you don't necessarily have to break the bank. Buy used. I recommend Shure SM81's for the overheads, Shure SM57 for the snare and AKG D112 for the bass drum.

    I record right into my MacBook. You can use GarageBand or some other basic application. I have an Alesis MultiMix 8 with a USB connection. I just plug in the mics and run the Alesis into the computer through the USB and pull it up in Cubase (software that comes with the Alesis). Adjust levels and go!

    My two cents.
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  3. #3

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    ya just have to get some kind of click device,and PRACTICE,PRACTICE,PRACTICE, there isnt much anyone can tell you to help your timing . youll get it. but it just takes practice,,there arnt many shortcuts

  4. #4

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    Default Re: Speed and Timing

    The more music you listen to, the more you'll be able to pull ideas and broaden your fill library. Improvising is also helpful, although you probably can't do it if you're still a beginner. When you're just jamming along to nothing in particular, you might "accidentally" come with an awesome fill out of the blue! I know I do that every once in a while. But yeah, pulling fills from some music you listen to is a good start, and you can try to think of some ways to modify it and make it your own.
    Matt

  5. #5

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    Default Re: Speed and Timing

    Quote Originally Posted by yohin View Post
    The more music you listen to, the more you'll be able to pull ideas and broaden your fill library.
    +1

    Dave Lombardo of SLAYER is a perfect example of this. Listen to some of his stuff and you'll see what I mean, especially his fills.
    Never take life seriously. Nobody gets out alive anyway.

  6. #6

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    Default Re: Speed and Timing

    To expound on the theme (all great comments BTW), when you listen to other drummers, take phrases of their playing and work on emulating what you hear. Then consciously change something as simple as choosing a different drum for an accent, or as complex as moving the phrase to start on a different beat or upbeat. Start slowly as mentioned. Once you develop the muscle memory (the muscle is really inside your melon), you can take these elements and create a toolbox full of tools that you can draw from as you create your own fills. It is a never ending process (a good thing). Also one thing I notice from inexperienced drummers is that they tend to start fills at the same point every time. A lot of times, it is a two-beat fill beginning on beat 3 of a measure. It is a trap to be sure. Just working on starting your fills at various points in the measure will naturally allow you to see and feel things differently. Once you get that going, try playing your fill past beat one of the next bar; the place were we all want to place a kick & crash. End your fill on beat 2, or the upbeat of one, or wherever. Just be sure that your groove falls back in and nail the backbeats that come directly after.

    Rock on!

    Oh, and my favorite personal challenge: find spots where you want to play a fill...but don't. Keep the groove going instead (unless you're a prog rocker). Sometimes (more often than we drum-types want to admit), the best fill is no fill or perhaps a real simple single note on a tom or cymbal. Save that killer fill for that one moment. Aarrgh, it is a enigma. We have these beautiful drums and cymbals but sometimes...many times they are best seen and not heard.

    Always play to the song...(gotta keep telling myself that...)
    Last edited by xsabers; 12-01-2009 at 10:23 PM.

  7. #7

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    Default Re: Speed and Timing

    Something i've recently started doing, and this may only work for me, is i've started playing just straight 16th notes and maybe 32nd notes on my pad to the band MuteMath. The drummer, Darren King, plays REALLY fast! they aren't metal, iTunes classifies them as "alternative" but he has influenced my drumming a lot recently. just playing straight notes helps build my chops and speed. this doesn't necessarily need to be done with this band, but i mentioned them because they are fast and "fill-gifted".

    I've started accenting different notes on the straight notes to add flavor or spice to what im doing, as well as leading with my weaker(left) hand. Try throwing in some ghost notes to mix it up and test your timing

  8. #8

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    Default Re: Speed and Timing

    Here's my contribution:
    I practice with a metronome and I focus on a page of rudiments on the snare for about an hour a day. Then I take on just one rudiment like the single paradiddle and use the snare, HH and BD only and spend the next 30 minutes breaking up the paradidle by inverting it and sticking to one bpm until I drop a beat or peter out. The next 30 minutes is spent taking the paradidle around the kit using the ride and crash cymbals to accent or break up the diddle part.

    I'll usually get bored by this time, so to keep focused, I'll start doing 16th note single rolls all around the toms and incorporating different bpm to build muscle control to avoid hitting my knuckles or smashing my fingers against the sticks. I reward myself at the conclusion of my practice routine by sticking in my ear buds and jamming to a tune recorded on my Tascam to my favorite band or "flavor" of the week.

    Good luck with the drumming and you asked some great questions. Your passion really shows. Welcome to the forum.

  9. #9

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    Default Re: Speed and Timing

    As far as speed and timing.....everyone is different, we all learn at our own pace .Eventually it will just click, you just need to keep practicing.

    Practice is your answer, it will help with the speed and smoothness of your fills. With exppanding your fill library....again, practice your rudiments.

    Start slow and every time you practice try picking up the tempo.The more your practice the quicker things happen. Best of luck.
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  10. #10

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    Default Re: Speed and Timing

    Quote Originally Posted by xsabers View Post
    To expound on the theme (all great comments BTW), when you listen to other drummers, take phrases of their playing and work on emulating what you hear. Then consciously change something as simple as choosing a different drum for an accent, or as complex as moving the phrase to start on a different beat or upbeat. Start slowly as mentioned. Once you develop the muscle memory (the muscle is really inside your melon), you can take these elements and create a toolbox full of tools that you can draw from as you create your own fills. It is a never ending process (a good thing). Also one thing I notice from inexperienced drummers is that they tend to start fills at the same point every time. A lot of times, it is a two-beat fill beginning on beat 3 of a measure. It is a trap to be sure. Just working on starting your fills at various points in the measure will naturally allow you to see and feel things differently. Once you get that going, try playing your fill past beat one of the next bar; the place were we all want to place a kick & crash. End your fill on beat 2, or the upbeat of one, or wherever. Just be sure that your groove falls back in and nail the backbeats that come directly after.

    Rock on!

    Oh, and my favorite personal challenge: find spots where you want to play a fill...but don't. Keep the groove going instead (unless you're a prog rocker). Sometimes (more often than we drum-types want to admit), the best fill is no fill or perhaps a real simple single note on a tom or cymbal. Save that killer fill for that one moment. Aarrgh, it is a enigma. We have these beautiful drums and cymbals but sometimes...many times they are best seen and not heard.

    Always play to the song...(gotta keep telling myself that...)
    This is really good advice. It is far to easy to just get carried away and start overplaying and over filling where as usually you will sound best if you play to the song and not try to show off too much.

  11. #11

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    Default Re: Speed and Timing

    Ciu, here are my suggestions to your questions:

    1. What can I do to help my speed.
    - Use more wrist action (than arm). Rudiments help develop your fine motor skills that are used for drumming. It also helps to relax when you play.

    2. What can I do to help broaden my fill's library.
    - This comes in time as you develop your own style. As the others have said, you will be exposed to more styles and music that you will be able to draw from.

    3. Curious, about how far should your beater be from the head of the drum in Idle. (im guessing its mostly personal preference)
    - Whatever is most comfortable for you.

    4. Is there a good site out there that could help me with a more newbie approach to recording in a more "professional" manner? (ie mics, computers, ect.)
    - Sorry, this question is for the Sound Guy :-)

    Rock On !

  12. #12

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    Default Re: Speed and Timing

    1. you wont get speed or accuracy with out muscle memory

    2. never play the same fill twice

    3. on the head, there's no point having to use 2 movements for 1 action

    4.drum chat recording drums section

  13. #13

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    Default Re: Speed and Timing

    Yeah its basically all been said... just practice rudiments which will in turn give you fill ideas. Also practice with a metronone and listen to a great variety of music. Also, a lot of drum books have hand control and accent exercises. As a kid I used to always skip these and go straight to the rock beats lol. But those exercises are really good. Experiment... instead of striking an accented note on the exercise try using the bass drum or whatever. These will bring ideas for drum fills.
    Keep it real bro

  14. #14

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    Default Re: Speed and Timing

    This is an exercise I put up a while back specifically to improve speed relaxation and timing. Have a go.

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JSKPqdRRtA4"]YouTube- Timing Excercise[/ame]


    Cheers

    Andy

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