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Thread: What makes a drummer a 'musician'?

  1. #26

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    Default Re: What makes a drummer a 'musician'?

    I think when people say a drummer is musical they mean they make the drums fit the song, instead of overplaying. They know what to play where, what fills are suitable for what situations, etc. Its all about your knowledge of the music and rounding it out without being the dominant force within a song.
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  2. #27

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    Quote Originally Posted by pastor_bob View Post
    Thanks Drumbledore. My teacher tells me that my biggest problem is that I think too much. I know she's right, and I am trying hard to overcome it, but I grew up thinking as a scientist, and not a creative musician. It is taking me time to learn how to think in more creative ways. I'm a left brain guy doing a right brain thing, and I'm getting lots of brain cramps right now! My teacher has had to cope with the fact that to learn something, I have to understand it first. I analyze everything in order to learn it.
    You sound like what I started out as, PB....analytical (still am sometimes....if I didn't pick up drums, would have focused more in high school and have become a design-engineer like what my grandfather was). It took me time to relax a little more (my start in drums was that 'full on' rudimental drumline stuff....our drum-teacher at school used to play in pipe-bands back in Canada, and we had to get our head around reading snare parts on pads, really tight drumheads....only got onto the drumkit months later once he could see our hands working properly...but I loved it!). However, I think it was once I left high school, doing the rudiments, charts in high school band (and also the school dances) that that's when I realised I had to loosen up a bit more. So I played in punk bands, blues, rock, metal, originals and covers, and then when I started nailing it more, got into funk and what was the Top-40 cover stuff at that time, still went to various lessons, kept on acquiring new styles, worked more on trickier technique.....and it still goes on PB! Along the way I've made many, many friends and acquaintances...drummers, guitarists.....sound engineers, staff at music stores, hand drumming buddies of mine who I go and chill out with...anyone and everyone along the way.

    Nearly 24 years at it and still going strong....and next year will be 40 years young!....that's my personal mantra.
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  3. #28

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    Quote Originally Posted by Drumbledore View Post
    Nearly 24 years at it and still going strong....and next year will be 40 years young!....that's my personal mantra.
    So, you started your endeavors in music when you were my age? Epic. I'm also starting my journey in music, I already have a tertiary certificate in music (performance, theory, basic live sound, composition etc), and I'm in a gigging metal band. I'd say I'm going pretty good so far. I'm gonna start the music diploma course year after next (at age 17 LOL). If I stick with it, I should have my bachelor in applied arts when I'm 20.

    I might start teaching too, once I get good enough...
    - Zack

  4. #29

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    Quote Originally Posted by pastor_bob View Post
    Thanks Drumbledore. My teacher tells me that my biggest problem is that I think too much. I know she's right, and I am trying hard to overcome it, but I grew up thinking as a scientist, and not a creative musician. It is taking me time to learn how to think in more creative ways. I'm a left brain guy doing a right brain thing, and I'm getting lots of brain cramps right now! My teacher has had to cope with the fact that to learn something, I have to understand it first. I analyze everything in order to learn it.
    You sure we aint related PB? This is the same problem I have and it drives my teacher insane some days! I have the analyze thing going, when, where & why, then on top of that, I still have a tendancy to play tight, trying to be mistake free. I'll flow through a set one time and another I'm all uptight. This I believe due to my day job spilling into my playing. No mistakes, no mistakes. But when I can just relax and not try to overthink, it comes together. I think it's going to be a matter of playing with others and self confidence. I still think my drumming sounds badly, and thats another thing that drives him crazy. He hears something completley different.

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  5. #30

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    Default Re: What makes a drummer a 'musician'?

    Play music, not the drums. That's what makes you a musician.

  6. #31

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    Quote Originally Posted by jafo View Post
    You sure we aint related PB? This is the same problem I have and it drives my teacher insane some days! I have the analyze thing going, when, where & why, then on top of that, I still have a tendancy to play tight, trying to be mistake free. I'll flow through a set one time and another I'm all uptight. This I believe due to my day job spilling into my playing. No mistakes, no mistakes. But when I can just relax and not try to overthink, it comes together. I think it's going to be a matter of playing with others and self confidence. I still think my drumming sounds badly, and thats another thing that drives him crazy. He hears something completley different.
    I totally understand jafo. I can stand in a pulpit and speak to a silent room, or sing in front of 450 soldiers (yep, did it), or play guitar in front of the church, but the thought of playing drums in front of the same people still scares me (there are drummers (former?) in the congregation). My teacher thinks I am making very good progress, but my own self-confidence seems to be lagging behind my teacher's assessment. late8 asked me to post a vid of my playing, and even though I know that everyone here will be kind and supportive, I still feel the nerves.

    I know we can get more comfortable, and just like when I started playing guitar in front of people, I am sure there will be plenty of nervous moments. Eventually, though, the nerves will calm down, if not completely go away.
    Quoting gonefishin: Just have some bacon with ya when you go pick her up..........youre an instant chick magnet.





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  7. #32

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    Quote Originally Posted by pastor_bob View Post
    I totally understand jafo. I can stand in a pulpit and speak to a silent room, or sing in front of 450 soldiers (yep, did it), or play guitar in front of the church, but the thought of playing drums in front of the same people still scares me (there are drummers (former?) in the congregation). My teacher thinks I am making very good progress, but my own self-confidence seems to be lagging behind my teacher's assessment. late8 asked me to post a vid of my playing, and even though I know that everyone here will be kind and supportive, I still feel the nerves.

    I know we can get more comfortable, and just like when I started playing guitar in front of people, I am sure there will be plenty of nervous moments. Eventually, though, the nerves will calm down, if not completely go away.
    Well PB, you know the old saying "knowledge is power"? This is my mantra in life. What I mean by that is, the more you know what you're doing, the more comfortable you can be within it.
    I think to myself "ok, if I'm going to do this gig and I'm nervous, I will rehearse until I get to the point of knowing every part inside out". That way you CAN walk out onto the stage with the confidence of knowing that you have every base covered. And that usually gets rid of the heebie jeebies for me. As long as I know I'm prepared - I can feel confident in what I'm about to do on stage.
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  8. #33
    kris finney Guest

    Default Re: What makes a drummer a 'musician'?

    a drummer is a musician because he plays a musical instrument, when he plays his instrument he plays music,

    music is sound waves from the air particles
    i thought you would have known this, i mean its pretty self explanatory.

  9. #34

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    Quote Originally Posted by ZackPomerleau View Post
    Play music, not the drums. That's what makes you a musician.
    See, that's what gets me. How is playing the drums not music? Does that mean that batucada ensembles aren't playing music, just drums?

    Quote Originally Posted by kris finney View Post
    a drummer is a musician because he plays a musical instrument, when he plays his instrument he plays music,

    music is sound waves from the air particles
    i thought you would have known this, i mean its pretty self explanatory.
    Of course, but when people say that they're trying to become a musician, not 'just' a drummer, that's when they lose me. What exactly do they mean by it?
    - Zack

  10. #35

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    Quote Originally Posted by kris finney View Post
    a drummer is a musician because he plays a musical instrument, when he plays his instrument he plays music,

    music is sound waves from the air particles
    i thought you would have known this, i mean its pretty self explanatory.
    I'm not disagreeing, but extending your thought.

    If someone writes a song, they're a songwriter? Or a composer?

    If someone writes an essay, they're a writer? Or a author?

    If someone writes a poem, they're a poet?

    Devils advocate; Does granting a title to someone, such as musician over instrument player, imply anything? What's the importance to the time, energy and effort devouted to a skill? Is this a matter of inside looking out, or outside looking in?

    Just questions.

    And PB, when it comes to nerves when playing aren't you suppose to imagine yourself naked or something like that? I always have, and always will deal with nerves. It's about the expectations I have for myself, not what others have for me. Dealing with others is easy.

  11. #36

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    If being a musician means playing for the song, feeling the music, supporting the other band members etc., then I'm certainly a musician. I have always been about feel, not so much, uhh... dunno what the word to use here would be. Maybe 'trained'? I've seen many jazz drummers go on a lot about feel, yet they don't seem to have any themselves. I've seen jazz drummers playing what I call 'gossip'. Cramming in so many unnecessary snare notes, breaking up the ride patterns where it isn't really needed, and just not shutting up. I'd much rather hear a guy with groove play 'tah, tah, ta-tah, tah, ta-tah' and keep two and four on the hihat, then some other guy who lacks feeling, playing unnecessary nonsense which they say is musical.

    I believe groove is extremely important in every genre, be it jazz, pop, folk, or death metal. I don't listen to much music that doesn't really evoke some sort of emotion from me. I can certainly appreciate the skill involved in doing crazy 4-way independence stuff or whatever, but if it doesn't have feeling, it doesn't really do much for me.
    Last edited by xweasel; 12-23-2010 at 09:23 PM.
    - Zack

  12. #37

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    Maybe the lack of consensus here is due to the word "Musician?" It's like saying, "I'll have a number of those." Without any quanity or quality it may not mean a lot. For example, amatuer from the greek, to love. An amatuer musician plays for the love of music only. Musician alone, implying more then amatuer plays to fill more or different needs then love alone, if love of the music is there at all? I've sure played more then my share of music I didn't care for, but it kept a roof over our heads.

  13. #38

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    For me it's about the love of music. Although, I haven't really been on the scene long enough to start making an income from it. Hell I'm only 16 haha
    - Zack

  14. #39

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    Quote Originally Posted by Drumbledore View Post
    You sound like what I started out as, PB....analytical (still am sometimes....if I didn't pick up drums, would have focused more in high school and have become a design-engineer like what my grandfather was). It took me time to relax a little more (my start in drums was that 'full on' rudimental drumline stuff....our drum-teacher at school used to play in pipe-bands back in Canada, and we had to get our head around reading snare parts on pads, really tight drumheads....only got onto the drumkit months later once he could see our hands working properly...but I loved it!). However, I think it was once I left high school, doing the rudiments, charts in high school band (and also the school dances) that that's when I realised I had to loosen up a bit more. So I played in punk bands, blues, rock, metal, originals and covers, and then when I started nailing it more, got into funk and what was the Top-40 cover stuff at that time, still went to various lessons, kept on acquiring new styles, worked more on trickier technique.....and it still goes on PB! Along the way I've made many, many friends and acquaintances...drummers, guitarists.....sound engineers, staff at music stores, hand drumming buddies of mine who I go and chill out with...anyone and everyone along the way.

    Nearly 24 years at it and still going strong....and next year will be 40 years young!....that's my personal mantra.

    Somehow, it just makes me feel better that I am not alone in the way I approach musical learning. Thank you Drumbledore.
    Quoting gonefishin: Just have some bacon with ya when you go pick her up..........youre an instant chick magnet.





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  15. #40

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    Default Re: What makes a drummer a 'musician'?

    Being 'musical' is another thing.

  16. #41

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    Quote Originally Posted by spesman View Post
    Well PB, you know the old saying "knowledge is power"? This is my mantra in life. What I mean by that is, the more you know what you're doing, the more comfortable you can be within it.
    I think to myself "ok, if I'm going to do this gig and I'm nervous, I will rehearse until I get to the point of knowing every part inside out". That way you CAN walk out onto the stage with the confidence of knowing that you have every base covered. And that usually gets rid of the heebie jeebies for me. As long as I know I'm prepared - I can feel confident in what I'm about to do on stage.
    Thank you spesman. I think I struggle most with how many of the younger drummers in here are playing in bands with fewer years behind the kit than I have. Of course, I have to stop and realize that I have a lot of demands on my time and I am progressing at my own rate. It just takes me longer to master something, because I don't have as much practice time as I would prefer.
    Quoting gonefishin: Just have some bacon with ya when you go pick her up..........youre an instant chick magnet.





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  17. #42

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    Quote Originally Posted by Riverr1 View Post
    And PB, when it comes to nerves when playing aren't you suppose to imagine yourself naked or something like that? I always have, and always will deal with nerves. It's about the expectations I have for myself, not what others have for me. Dealing with others is easy.
    Man! I've been doing it wrong then. I thought I was supposed to imagine the audience naked. If I have to imagine myself naked, I'm liable to lose my lunch!

    Quote Originally Posted by Riverr1 View Post
    Maybe the lack of consensus here is due to the word "Musician?" It's like saying, "I'll have a number of those." Without any quanity or quality it may not mean a lot. For example, amatuer from the greek, to love. An amatuer musician plays for the love of music only. Musician alone, implying more then amatuer plays to fill more or different needs then love alone, if love of the music is there at all? I've sure played more then my share of music I didn't care for, but it kept a roof over our heads.
    I think you make an excellent point Riverr. Pinning down just exactly what makes someone a musician is more complex than it might first appear.
    Quoting gonefishin: Just have some bacon with ya when you go pick her up..........youre an instant chick magnet.





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  18. #43

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    Quote Originally Posted by pastor_bob View Post
    If I have to imagine myself naked, I'm liable to lose my lunch!
    I found my new sig quote...
    Pearl-Zildjian-Evans-Vater


    I go to my local drum shop and purchase my sticks. I like to touch them before I buy them ;-)
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  19. #44

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    I've read every post in this thread. I've concluded that everyones opinions hold water in different ways. All good points.

    But here is one I have'nt seen yet, or might have missed. Has anyone tried to look up the actual defenition of "musician" or "musical" in a dictionary? This come to mind after Riverr's post on "Essay's, written by writers or authors? ect."

    I mean I may just check it out and see what the dictionary has to say, and then compair it to my own thought process.

    I also think geological area we are in and also different era's we grew up in have influence on how we look at what the defenition of a Musician is. Really thats the core of the whole topic here is'nt it? A simple defenition?

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  20. #45

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    Quote Originally Posted by xweasel View Post
    I've always wondered this... What makes a drummer a 'musician'? I'm constantly hearing people saying that *insert drummer's name here* drumming is extremely musical/unmusical. Many players also seem to be obsessed with the idea of becoming a musician, not just a drummer. What does that mean? When they say that, it seems to me that they think drummers are less of a musician than, say, a guitarist or a keyboardist.

    I've been told that when playing jazz, my playing should be more musical. Do they mean more rhythmically complex? More melodic? Creating drum harmonies by playing more than one drum at the same time? All three at the same time, seeing as rhythm, melody and harmony are three major components of music? Playing for what the song requires? If it's the latter, than why do people say that metal drumming is less musical than jazz drumming?

    This baffles me.
    Kuddo's to you xweasel, I've enjoyed this topic. Just say'n.

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  21. #46
    kris finney Guest

    Default Re: What makes a drummer a 'musician'?

    Quote Originally Posted by xweasel View Post
    See, that's what gets me. How is playing the drums not music? Does that mean that batucada ensembles aren't playing music, just drums?

    Of course, but when people say that they're trying to become a musician, not 'just' a drummer, that's when they lose me. What exactly do they mean by it?
    Quote Originally Posted by Riverr1 View Post
    I'm not disagreeing, but extending your thought.

    If someone writes a song, they're a songwriter? Or a composer?

    If someone writes an essay, they're a writer? Or a author?

    If someone writes a poem, they're a poet?

    Devils advocate; Does granting a title to someone, such as musician over instrument player, imply anything? What's the importance to the time, energy and effort devouted to a skill? Is this a matter of inside looking out, or outside looking in?

    Just questions.

    And PB, when it comes to nerves when playing aren't you suppose to imagine yourself naked or something like that? I always have, and always will deal with nerves. It's about the expectations I have for myself, not what others have for me. Dealing with others is easy.

    i will try and answer your questions in order of what is more important

    what is a musical instrument and what makes somebody musician:

    firstly in 'making music', but anybody who plays a musical instrument is a musician - pretty much a self explanatory question that as a simple explanation, as a musical instrument makes music and not just noise that you cant shape or control, the word 'play really means to be able to play what you want at your ability, if you cant play an instrument then you don't be able to shape to shape the sounds that you create in a controlled way that where you can play what you think and feel, but even the best people still make mistakes, but that is different because its a different case the, they have the technique but the make mistakes using those techniques, non musicians make mistakes usually when learning to get a basic rhythm and melody then add techniques.
    In a musical instrument you play every note by making oscillations in the air waves, these osculations have a frequency and amplitude that determines a basic timbre, , a timbre is a sound, if you make sounds that you can control by determining your own timing, tempo, dynamics and key then you can make music and you are a musician.

    A musical instrument in general is anything that can make noises , if you can get a noise that you want out of it then its a musical instrument where as if it played noises you weren't thinking about then it isn't an instrument but also if it can make preconceived and conceived rhythms and melodies then its an instrument.
    they work ultimately by making from making air waves from wind or strings or woodwind or by hitting something that oscillates such as a drum. these oscillations have a frequency and usually, the harder you play the note the louder is becomes. instruments must be able to

    well technically an electronic keyboard is a semi-instrument because you can either play each note in real time with the key you press ,just like on a real instrument, but the notes are formed from electrons down a conductor not through air waves, however the electronic signals are processed and sent out through speakers which make the airwaves again just like a real instrument makes oscillations in the air waves,

    on the other hand a turntable / deck what DJ's use is not an instrument because you don't 'play' every note, it plays them to you and the audience when you tell it to, even the notes what you manipulate are not played by you otherwise you'd have to hold the note and manipulate it, like on a guitar for example you strike the strong and change the note by placing your finger on the fretboard which shortens the strong vibration, giving you a frequency, you can also so loads of other things to manipulate a note on many instruments but the main point is, on a real instrument you play the note by hitting the key or pressing the valve button or whatever and manipulating the note in some shape or form, a guitar doesn't play the notes for you you play the notes to yourself and others.

    playing with others
    playing with other people is important because its about musical communication, you have to be able to have some sort of structure so that it docent sound a mess, and then stick to that whilst keeping in time and in key with the other musician, and also not playing anything that is too clashed , for example playing a busy fill over a melody on the guitar might clash with the timing even if its technically in time, it also depends on the genre in jazz its OK to get all complicated because the way it works is, you either stick to sheet music while playing or simply play through sense, sometimes you just know or guess when something in the song happens, even if you don't need to change anything when playing at the time.

    playing with non- musicians
    playing with non musicians is a bad idea though you can pick up some musical instruments white quickly but that still requires teaching/ practicing first and not playing, yes there is a difference between 'practicing' and 'playing'
    an example of an was instrument to pick up is the congas or bongos, but even these instruments have other technical details about them, there is different ways to play them for example.

    what makes a drummer a musician
    a drummer is a musician because he creates music when playing the drums, drums are the most important instrument of them all to me because its an instrument of rhythm and usually not melody (unless its a tuned percussion)
    drums are there to keep a beat , tempo and time also they can play beats in-between each rhythm just for structure and to fill in the gaps of the rhythms.

    what is jazz?
    jazz is 20th century music at its best in my eyes, it took many years for the people who came up with it to work out how to get jazz to work in real life, the main idea was to be able to play with other musicians by expressing yourself but also, jazz is a lot more free formative to play as you can improvise to a certain extent
    jazz is considered musical because of its freedom to express yourself in your improvisation, there is still a boundary that the players stick to at some point but its more free form than other genre( unless its a fusion genre such as jazz funk) but you get the idea

    what people say may be fact or opinion , its up to you what you believe but its best to work in some way or other it out then believe in the truth/facts
    Last edited by kris finney; 12-24-2010 at 01:16 PM.

  22. #47

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    Quote Originally Posted by pastor_bob View Post
    To me, this is what I thought you were saying - playing musically is about being able to "feel" the music coming from the other musicians and being able to go with that feel. Am I close?
    I agree with this statement completely, but we must not forget that another factor that makes a drummer a musician is not just his ability to feel the music other musicians are making and add to that, but sometimes create that feel himself. Drummers can often be thought of as the heartbeat of the band or person holding the band together, and so drummers don't just add to the feel of the music they play but also create that feel and often set the groundwork to the song.

    Creativity is one thing that a drummer needs to be a 'musician' so to speak IMO. Because when creativity is applied to the set, drums and percussion can really be some of the most expressive, versatile, and dynamic instruments out there. Not so much when playing some straight ahead 4/4 punk rock beat IMO, but more in music that requires this special touch and feel. I think that drum solos that apply these concepts along with other chops are the strongest, and that these few things can add so much to accompanying music.
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  23. #48

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    Quote Originally Posted by tah821 View Post
    I found my new sig quote...
    hahaha i was thinking the same thing.
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  24. #49

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    Quote Originally Posted by jafo View Post
    Really thats the core of the whole topic here is'nt it? A simple defenition?
    musician
    noun
    a person who is talented or skilled in music

    thats what this dictionary says, but I think we're talking more about the deeper philosophy of what makes a musician rather than the actual definition. A musician is more of an artist who expresses himself through making music with various qualities such as rhythm, melody, harmony, etc. I'd say.

    Even if the drummer doesn't always use melody, etc. then whose to say they can't, though? A drummer adds as much to the music as his fellow bandmates IMO, and requires much practice and discipline in the art of drumming
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  25. #50
    kris finney Guest

    Default Re: What makes a drummer a 'musician'?

    i agree about how a drummer needs to be creative, that's deffo true and that's why i don't really read sheet music because its too robotic, i want to create things while swinging the rest of the band and keeping the timing and setting the tempo(s) of the timing used.

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