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Thread: Drum Mic Question

  1. #1

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    Hi all.....If the sound of the drum originates from the resonant head, why do we all mic the batter head?
    When in doubt, leave it out
    http://www.bandmix.com/rhythmstick

  2. #2

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    Okay ill take a stab at it.

    I think that it is because mics are easier to adjust if they are on the top head. and this ease mixed with still a great possible sound makes it primary. If you want to try mic'ing and comparing sound give it a go, you might be surprised at the slim quality difference.

    Some recording engineers prefer to mic the reso head because like you said the sound comes from there. Some guys even will mic the batter and reso because they claim to achieve a fuller sound. I think they just have a lot of mics and got bored

    It really comes down to a matter of preference (have you heard that before?)
    I record my toms from the top and my snare from the bottom most of the time, if i dont have to swap snare multiple times.
    -Steven

  3. #3

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    becuase if you miced just from the rezo it would just be a tone with no life
    you mic from the top to get the attack from when the stick hits the head
    MY KIT
    LUDWIG CLASSIC MAPLE SALESMAN
    13, hanging toms,16 ,18 floor toms,24 Kick, 14x5.5 snare,
    CYMBALS
    Paiste 2002 ,22 big beat , 18 med , 18 crash , 16 crash , 18 china , 14 sound edge hats

  4. #4

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    i mic both

    sounds heeps better out the front

  5. #5

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    Quote Originally Posted by itchie View Post
    i mic both

    sounds heeps better out the front
    ive herd it sound really bad
    You can run into phase issues and if you don't know how (or don't know it is) to fix a phase issue kiss your tom sound good buy
    If i see someone putting mics on the bottom of my toms i would make sure i unplugged them
    MY KIT
    LUDWIG CLASSIC MAPLE SALESMAN
    13, hanging toms,16 ,18 floor toms,24 Kick, 14x5.5 snare,
    CYMBALS
    Paiste 2002 ,22 big beat , 18 med , 18 crash , 16 crash , 18 china , 14 sound edge hats

  6. #6

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    Quote Originally Posted by eddahenry View Post
    ive herd it sound really bad
    You can run into phase issues and if you don't know how (or don't know it is) to fix a phase issue kiss your tom sound good buy
    If i see someone putting mics on the bottom of my toms i would make sure i unplugged them
    horses for courses

    in the end of the day what ever sounds better wins
    Last edited by itchie; 05-12-2011 at 07:20 AM.

  7. #7

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    what i should have said is in a live situation.
    i have used mics in all sorts of positions in the studio
    but when where talking live. the cons out weigh the Pros when it comes to top and bottom tom mics
    More channels used on the desk
    More live mikes on the stage (its near impossible to gate a rezo head as the lack of attack means running a very low gate threshold)
    More Bleed from other instruments (close miking is also useless with a rezo unless you want just the highs near the rim or the lows in the centre rezo mics always sound nicer and rounder when set a few inches away from the head IMO
    Phase issues taking the bottom from your sound
    so with all the extra issues it can produce IMO its not worth the small gains you receive
    MY KIT
    LUDWIG CLASSIC MAPLE SALESMAN
    13, hanging toms,16 ,18 floor toms,24 Kick, 14x5.5 snare,
    CYMBALS
    Paiste 2002 ,22 big beat , 18 med , 18 crash , 16 crash , 18 china , 14 sound edge hats

  8. #8

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    Quote Originally Posted by eddahenry View Post
    becuase if you miced just from the rezo it would just be a tone with no life
    you mic from the top to get the attack from when the stick hits the head
    This, and not ALL tone comes from the reso head - you get plenty of tone from the top one too. If that wasn't the case, we wouldn't see thread after thread on the drummers' forums asking about which batter side tom heads to get and why. We also wouldn't have so many different types and varieties, running the range from thin clears, to thick, two ply, coated, pre-muffled heads.

    Itchie, a question I'll pose to you is this: Other than snare drum and bass drum, in a studio environment, how often are drums miked on both sides? From photos I've seen, not often, and snare and bass have specific reasons to use two mics - for snare it's to capture both attack and snare response, and especially on deeper snares. For bass, it's the same reason - if all you mic is the sound hole, the drum is so big the mic doesn't properly pick up the attack, which is why a mic is often placed so that it can pick up the attack from the beater.

    Otherwise, I've mainly only seen toms miked from the top, supplemented by condenser overheads to capture the the whole kit - depending on the engineer, sometimes this is done with a single large diaphragm condenser, and sometimes it's done with a couple of small diaphragm condensers.

    And heck, sometimes there is even a more spartan miking scheme - some of U2's early stuff was done with just 3 mics - one on snare, one on bass, and they hung a single mic (sometimes just an SM58!) over the top of the kit.

  9. #9

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    I am a novice when it comes to micing and mics. I have generally always had a sound guy. It is something I need to learn though. So another question.....clip on mics or free standing mics? I have used both, and I prefer free standing. Is it just a matter of preference or are there cost and performance issues to be considered?
    When in doubt, leave it out
    http://www.bandmix.com/rhythmstick

  10. #10

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    I've played venues that do both. And at the same venue. Just depends on the sound guy and what he likes and what he wants to do.

    I prefer them on the reso side only b/c they are out of my way.

  11. #11

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    It is not necessary to mic every single drum: bass and snare constitute the powerhouse of the kit and are the most important. The hi-hat bleeds through onto the other mics to such an extent that a separate mic is often redundant, and the cymbals are best picked up on a single pair of overhead microphones. Tom mic's on the other hand are sold and made to clip on the rims are good too. Good mic's ain't cheap but with anything else, experimentation is key. I like using cardioid dynamics between two toms, one condenser between the hat and snare, one for the floor tom, and a cardi like an EV-RE20 for the kick. My .02

  12. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by maddrummer View Post
    It is not necessary to mic every single drum: bass and snare constitute the powerhouse of the kit and are the most important. The hi-hat bleeds through onto the other mics to such an extent that a separate mic is often redundant, and the cymbals are best picked up on a single pair of overhead microphones. Tom mic's on the other hand are sold and made to clip on the rims are good too. Good mic's ain't cheap but with anything else, experimentation is key. I like using cardioid dynamics between two toms, one condenser between the hat and snare, one for the floor tom, and a cardi like an EV-RE20 for the kick. My .02
    I use a kick, snare and one overhead most nights......works well enough for me.
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  13. #13

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    Sound for the most part travels upward. Have someone play your drums and lie on the floor in front of them. Then stand up. You decide what sounds best.

  14. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by VIbes View Post
    Sound for the most part travels upward. Have someone play your drums and lie on the floor in front of them. Then stand up. You decide what sounds best.
    Not really - you have to consider the context. The reason you hear more sound standing up is because you are also getting sound that is being reflected from the floor. also to be considered is the sound being reflected off of the heads themselves.

    I tend to like clip on mics though - less mess around my kit.

    As for which mics, much of that depends on budget and preference. Maddrummer, you mentioned the EV RE20 for kick - that's a great mic and a lot of studios use that, which is interesting considering that it was designed for broadcast as a vocal mic. Some folks really prefer the Audix D6 while others like the AKG D112 or the Shure Beta 52 - again, budget and preference. The RE20 is about twice as expensive as the the offerings from Audix, AKG or Shure.

    Here's something I put together using an SM57 for all parts played - both trumpet and drum. The bass drum was my Pearl SMX - I sat on it and played it with a pair of felt mallets. (This is a modification of something we used to play when I was a bugler in the Old Guard Fife and Drum Corps in the 1990s. I kind of improvised the drum parts on the fly.)

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZpG3gyRBN3M"]YouTube - Frog Legs With Drums[/ame]

    The point I'm making here is that with some EQ and playing with mic placement, even a plain old SM57 can be made to work.
    Last edited by trickg; 05-12-2011 at 01:29 PM.

  15. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by RhythmStick View Post
    I am a novice when it comes to micing and mics. I have generally always had a sound guy. It is something I need to learn though. So another question.....clip on mics or free standing mics? I have used both, and I prefer free standing. Is it just a matter of preference or are there cost and performance issues to be considered?
    I use rim clip mics but the model that came with my Audix 5pc. mic kit slips out of position when my toms are played agressively. If I had a chance, I would buy more mic stands and ditch the rim clip mic holders. I had to swap back out to triple flanged hoops from S-Hoops in order to be able to mount my rim mic clips since the S-Hoops have no top lip to clip the mic holder



    The other disadvantage I found using rim clip mic holder is that you are limited to where the mic can be placed since most rack toms have mounting systems that take up the ideal rim clip locations due to hardware mounting points around the tom.
    Last edited by late8; 05-12-2011 at 12:26 PM.

  16. #16

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    Actually sound waves travel in all directions from the source of the sound.
    I guess what I was trying to say is if your standing your going to hear the sound of the top of the set as opposed to if you are under the set. Yes reflections in a room are going to give you all sorts of different resonance as opposed to if you are outside playing in a field where the sound would travel outwards in all directions with no reflections.

  17. #17

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    I've never mic'd a rezo head, I play mostly hard rock kind of stuff, but it makes sense to me to mic whatever you want to hear. I personally want to hear my stick hitting the drum, and the attack it provides. Think along the lines of an acoustic guitar, the tone comes from the strings right? But they often place the mic where the guitar player is playing because you can hear the pic plucking and stroking the strings. Which is part of the tone. Hopefully this kind of made sense ha!
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  18. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by VIbes View Post
    Actually sound waves travel in all directions from the source of the sound.
    I guess what I was trying to say is if your standing your going to hear the sound of the top of the set as opposed to if you are under the set. Yes reflections in a room are going to give you all sorts of different resonance as opposed to if you are outside playing in a field where the sound would travel outwards in all directions with no reflections.
    No reflections except from the ground where the kit is sitting.

  19. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by RhythmStick View Post
    Hi all.....If the sound of the drum originates from the resonant head, why do we all mic the batter head?
    ...er.. because the sound doesn't originate from the resonant head. The sound originates from the batter head, and is shaped by the resonant head. We mic from above because it gives the most accurate reproduction of the sound of the drum, also it gives the most attack, which helps the kit sound cut through in the mix. End of the day though, try both, see which you like best.

    Particularly when playing live, it isn't actually about getting a perfect reproduction of what your drum sounds like, it's about getting a great sound out to the audience. For instance, the proximity effect of the mic being close to the head, enables it to pick up a harder attack sound, and the proximity effect will fill it out in the way that a resonant head does acoustically. Another factor live is that in many cases, there will be a lot of live acoustic drum sound in the room anyway, and the mic's job is to pick up a signal that can be eq'd to replace the frequencies and sounds that disappear in a live gig sound.

    Re clips or stands. For live playing, I'd go for clips everytime. Mics perfectly positioned with no stands to get in the way of your playing, or get knocked into, and knocked out of position, by other band members, and don't forget, less to carry.

    I bought these recently, and tried them last weekend:- http://www.drumchat.com/showthread.p...mic-20941.html they made the kit sound fantastic!


    Andy

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