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Thread: really stuck with this

  1. #1

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    Default really stuck with this

    Hey guys ive been asking people quite alot about this but im still really stuck about like 4 beat notes and 8 beats i know that 4/4 are quarter beats but i dont know the rest my old drum teacher never told me anything about this.

    I know that 4 beat notes are 1,2,3,4 and 8 beat notes are 1 and 2 and 3 and 4 and that 16 beat notes can be mississippi but im really confused on how to know how fast they go as well. please help
    people say drums is a matter of life and death it aint ........ its more than that!


  2. #2

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    How fast they go depends on the tempo. 8ths are simply twicw as fast as 4ths IE they are 11 22 33 44 instedad of 1 2 3 4.

    16ths are twice as fast as 8ths. Ie 1111 2222 3333 4444 instead of 1 2 3 4.

    Thats probably not very cllear but i hope that helps.

  3. #3

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    Yes, DR, Vinny is correct. I can play quarter notes slow or fast, and they'd still be quarter notes, as long as everything that is played follows the same tempo.

    If, however, I want to play everything in the same tempo, If I temporarily double the speed of my quarter notes, it would the same as playing eigth notes. While keeping the same tempo on all other parts of a song, if I double the speed of my eigth notes, I would be playing the same as sixteenth notes.

    So there are different ways to look at it.
    Quoting gonefishin: Just have some bacon with ya when you go pick her up..........youre an instant chick magnet.


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  4. #4

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    Generally, you use your hi hats to keep the tempo.
    Today, on Ethel The Frog...

  5. #5

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    Quote Originally Posted by drums-rock View Post
    I know that 4 beat notes are 1,2,3,4 and 8 beat notes are 1 and 2 and 3 and 4 and that 16 beat notes can be mississippi but im really confused on how to know how fast they go as well.
    The way I teach it to my students is, I give them a chart that shows a pie. That "whole" pie (whole note) is then divided into two halves (half notes). It's then divided into 4 slices (quarter notes). You can then divide it into 8 slices (eighth notes). And of course you can then divide it into 16ths (16th notes). As you can see, The whole pie doesn't get bigger just because you're creating more slices to eat. You're just dividing the "whole" pie into many different parts. This is simple math.

    Have a clear understanding of time signatures. The top note means, "How many beats there are in a measure. So, if the top number is 4, there are 4 beats in that measure. If the top number is 5, there are 5 beats in that measure.

    Then you have the bottom number. The bottom number equates to what "note" will get the beat. Will it be a quarter note? (a "4") Will it be an eighth note? (An "8") Will it be a 16th note? ("16")... and so on.

    So if you have a 5/4 time signature, there will be 5 beats per bar (top number) and the quarter note (that's what the "4" stands for) gets the beat. So you will have 5 quarter notes in each bar. From there, you can subdivide. If you divide a quarter note in two, you get 2 eighth notes (remember the pie example above).

    So, back to 4/4: The top number means, "4" beats in the measure (count to 4). The bottom note means you will assign a quarter note to that beat. You set your metronome tempo at a bpm (beats per minute). Set it to 110. Then count yourself off by saying, "1, 2, 3, 4". Start playing straight quarter notes. One quarter note for each beat (make them land on every click of the metronome). Then divide each of those quarter notes into two eighth notes. You'll then be counting "1 and 2 and 3 and 4 and" along with your beats (but the "ands" will be landing inbetween the clicks of the metronome). See how this feels like you're going faster? But you're not. The tempo on the metronome hasn't changed. The tempo is still 110 bpm. You've just subdivided the notes you're playing. From there, you can subdivide them again into 16th notes (counted 1 e and ah, 2 e and ah, 3 e and ah, 4 e and ah), and so on. The tempo hasn't changed at all. You're just subdividing notes.

    Hope this helps.
    - Tom

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  6. #6

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    Oh yeah, use the power of a teacher to really teach it right!! Good job, drummer!
    Quoting gonefishin: Just have some bacon with ya when you go pick her up..........youre an instant chick magnet.


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  7. #7

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    Wow Drummer you really hit the nail on the head with that one The thing is now i need to get a metronome lol
    people say drums is a matter of life and death it aint ........ its more than that!


  8. #8

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    drummer is a teacher? If not he should. Your really good at making sence of confusing stuff :>

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  9. #9

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    hip hip hooray! hip hip hooray! hip hip hooray!
    people say drums is a matter of life and death it aint ........ its more than that!


  10. #10

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    They don't call him a super moderator for nothing!
    Quoting gonefishin: Just have some bacon with ya when you go pick her up..........youre an instant chick magnet.


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  11. #11

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    lol good one PB
    people say drums is a matter of life and death it aint ........ its more than that!


  12. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by drummer View Post

    Then you have the bottom number. The bottom number equates to what "note" will get the beat. Will it be a quarter note? (a "4") Will it be an eighth note? (An "8") Will it be a 16th note? ("16")... and so on.

    So if you have a 5/4 time signature, there will be 5 beats per bar (top number) and the quarter note (that's what the "4" stands for) gets the beat. So you will have 5 quarter notes in each bar. From there, you can subdivide. If you divide a quarter note in two, you get 2 eighth notes (remember the pie example above).


    Ok, can I please ask an additional question to continue from here. A 5/4 is five beats in a bar of 4 notes. So for example and correct me if I am wrong 5/4 could be played 1and2and3and4and5and between hi-hat and snare as long as it fits in the metronome click of a bar of 4?? Ok next question is what is the difference between that and playing 5/8? I am assuming that the 1and2and3and4and5and is played over a bar of 8 or two bars of 4. Am I on the right track?

    So sound wise, if I was to hear the sound in my head right now...the 5/4 would sound quicker than the 5/8 as the 5/8 spreads the 5/4 out which makes it sound slower??

    hmmmmm, does it sound like Im understanding this part of it that becomes a little more complicated?

    thanks for your help drummer or anyone else i really appreciate it.

  13. #13

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    5/4 is 5 quarter notes in 1 bar. So it should not take only four beats. It should take 5 beats to complete.

    That probably made no sense. Im no good at explaining.

  14. #14

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    Hey LW, the time signature tells you 2 things: 1) the top number in the fraction tells us how many beats are in each measure, and 2) the bottom number tells us which note receives a single beat.

    Here is a link that can help explain it. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Time_signature

    In your example of a 5/4 time signature, then, each measure would have 5 beats, and each quarter note would get a beat.

    Hope that helps.
    Last edited by pastor_bob; 07-26-2007 at 07:52 AM.
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  15. #15

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    wow drummer just hit us all out of the ball park, thanks Drummer! and if you have ur set close to your computator like me heres a link
    http://www.drumchat.com/showthread.php?t=2560

  16. #16

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    wait so a beat would just be like one hit on the hi-hat and lets say a bassdrum or something :S i sound like such a noob here lol
    people say drums is a matter of life and death it aint ........ its more than that!


  17. #17

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    Whoa! A link to a link! Deja vu, dude!!
    Quoting gonefishin: Just have some bacon with ya when you go pick her up..........youre an instant chick magnet.


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  18. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by drums-rock View Post
    wait so a beat would just be like one hit on the hi-hat and lets say a bassdrum or something :S i sound like such a noob here lol
    A beat is a beat no matter what you hit. A beat is a beat even if you dont hit anything. Think of it like a clock. The tempo always ticks away at the same tempo.

    I hope that made sense.

  19. #19

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    Yes, Vinny's right, because even a rest would take up a beat. So, for instance, if you were only playing a snare and hit the snare on beat 2 and 4, then on the sheet music, there would be a rest on the 1 and the 3. This would mean that you were playing every other beat, but there would still be 4 beats accounted for in each measure (assuming a 4/4 song pattern).

    If on the other hand, you played the bass on the 1 and the 3, while playing the sanre on the 2 and the 4, all 4 of the beats of a 4/4 pattern would be accounted for. And just to be confusing now, you could also play all four beats on the hi-hat at the same time as the snare and the bass, without changing the basic beat. You're simply doubling up the sounds being played on each beat.
    Last edited by pastor_bob; 07-26-2007 at 12:17 PM.
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  20. #20

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    Thanks vinny and pb yous both made a good job of that
    people say drums is a matter of life and death it aint ........ its more than that!


  21. #21

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    By the way, when you get weird signatures like 5/8 and stuff, think of it as only having 5 bits of the cake.
    When you have something weird like 7/4 you 1 and 3/4 of a cake. So in the first scenario, your beats would be very short (2 1/2 over 4) and in the latter your beats would last longer.

    Gonna quickly hi jack the thread...I can't seem to actually play in any other time signatures than 4/4. Can anyone give me a few basic beats to practice that aren't in 4/4?
    Today, on Ethel The Frog...

  22. #22

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ethel_The_Frog View Post
    Gonna quickly hi jack the thread...I can't seem to actually play in any other time signatures than 4/4. Can anyone give me a few basic beats to practice that aren't in 4/4?
    Thats what i need too
    people say drums is a matter of life and death it aint ........ its more than that!


  23. #23

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    Quote Originally Posted by pastor_bob View Post
    each measure would have 5 beats, and each quarter note would get a beat.

    Hope that helps.

    if i was playing a 5/4 how can each note (4) get a beat when I need to fit '5' beats to each bar evenly spaced out...i will look into that link you posted but at this time I am still confused. If i set my click on 100bpm at quarter notes and I played 1&2&3&4&5& in that bar of 4 'evenly spaced out' would that be 5/4? and if i played 5/8 would that be played 1&2&3 in a bar of 4 'evenly spaced out?

    ill get into that link a bit latter, need to get on the drums for now

  24. #24

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    LW, that is my understanding from my musical background many years ago (clarinet in elementary school). I will let it go at that and ask drummer, or any other more experienced, drummer/teacher to comment on this thread. Either tell me I'm right, or tell me I'm wrong. I humbly ask ask for clarification from my more learned brethren/sistren!
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  25. #25

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    Quote Originally Posted by livewire80 View Post
    if i was playing a 5/4 how can each note (4) get a beat when I need to fit '5' beats to each bar evenly spaced out
    "4" means a "quarter" note and a quarter note falls on each beat. So, you will have 5 quarter notes in a bar of 5/4 time.

    Quote Originally Posted by livewire80 View Post
    If i set my click on 100bpm at quarter notes and I played 1&2&3&4&5& in that bar of 4 'evenly spaced out' would that be 5/4?
    No. You're almost there but still thinking of it backwards. I believe you are trying to stick 5 notes in 4/4 time and call it 5/4 time. It doesn't work that way. Your time signature is king. It sets the rules. 5/4 means, 5 beats in each measure and the quarter note (the bottom number 4 means quarter note) gets the beat. As long as the downbeats (1,2,3,4,5) are played on the click and the "&'s" are on the upbeat (off the click), you would be playing it correctly. You would count, "1,2,3,4,5" instead of 1,2,3,4 like in 4/4 time.


    Quote Originally Posted by livewire80 View Post
    and if i played 5/8 would that be played 1&2&3 in a bar of 4 'evenly spaced out?
    No. Again, you're trying to cram uneven notes in 4/4 time. This gets into polyrhythms (save it for later) but it's not odd time signatures. Odd time starts with an odd time signature. 5/8, like 5/4, still has 5 beats per measure, but the bottom number means eithth note (remember the pie example I gave). So the eighth note gets the beat. So now you will count 1,2,3,4,5 and each of those will fall right on the beat. If you want to double that, you'd now be playing 16th notes but the 16th notes will now be counted 1&2&3&4&5&. Yea, I know,... it gets tricky. It's best to stay with 3/4, 5/4, and 7/4 until it really sinks in. Then you can go on to 3/8, 5/16, 2/2, and so on.

    Livewire read my first post carefully, taking one step at a time. It should explain it. If not, take a few lessons with a local, experienced, and reputable teacher. They can help you through it. Once you "get it", it's all downhill from there. If it makes you feel any better, I struggled with it too when I was learning.
    - Tom

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