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Thread: Rudiments with heavier sticks?

  1. #1

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    Default Rudiments with heavier sticks?

    So essentially the story goes, I did the (arguably) silly thing of striving for developing speed over good technique. My single stroke roll on my hands got to about the speed of 16ths at 250 bpm but the technique in my left hand is AWFUL. While my right hand plays mostly fingers and feels very comfortable and loose, my left uses primarily wrist, and I unintentionally tense all up my arm even to my shoulder on my left side when playing at higher speeds, mostly stuff like blast beats. The faster I push to, the more it tenses, and I'd been beginning to notice I'd been getting a very sore shoulder after playing because I'd been tensing that much.
    A few days ago I was having one of those off days that every drummer gets, where our brains just aren't connecting to our hands and feet properly. So I decided I was going to have a bit of a break for the day. That's when i noticed the pain in my shoulder was worse than it ever was. So I decided to break out the old practice pad and practice some of these strange rudiment things I've mostly been stubbornly neglecting these days I've decided to take myself right back to basics and drill better technique into my left hand. I got out my old book "Rudiments and Motions, Snare Drumming up close" by Frank Corniola, And I'm planning on working through that.

    So anyway my question is. What kind of difference would practicing rudiments with heavier sticks make? At the moment I've started doing rudimental practice with a pair of Pro Mark Jeff Moore signature sticks, as they're quiiiiiiite darn heavy sticks.

    I'm not sure if you can see very well that I'm using a lot of wrist, not a lot of fingers and tensing my arm from this video, but here's a video of me playing, if it helps anyone develop some more specific hints or tips.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HpmtmXc6Wb0&feature=plcp
    Thanks for reading, everyone!
    Last edited by almostmatt1; 07-15-2012 at 06:33 AM.
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  2. #2

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    Default Re: Rudiments with heavier sticks?

    IMO using heavier sticks for practice doesn't build speed: you get used to the weight and when switching back to lighter sticks you discover you have to work harder to accommodate the lighter sticks. Also I thought you are supposed to use your wrist and if you are, why is your arm tired? I think you're not using your left wrist as much as you think or maybe you are at the start but it fatigues easily because it's just not as strong as your right.
    Rudiments are always good, doubles especially.
    I have ones practice technique to help wrist-only action:
    Kneel on a rug, rest your fore-arms on your thighs so your hands dangle, unsupported. Now do doubles and singles without moving your arms, using the rug as the practice pad.
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  3. #3

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    Default Re: Rudiments with heavier sticks?

    Quote Originally Posted by slinglander View Post
    IMO using heavier sticks for practice doesn't build speed: you get used to the weight and when switching back to lighter sticks you discover you have to work harder to accommodate the lighter sticks. Also I thought you are supposed to use your wrist and if you are, why is your arm tired? I think you're not using your left wrist as much as you think or maybe you are at the start but it fatigues easily because it's just not as strong as your right.
    Rudiments are always good, doubles especially.
    I have ones practice technique to help wrist-only action:
    Kneel on a rug, rest your fore-arms on your thighs so your hands dangle, unsupported. Now do doubles and singles without moving your arms, using the rug as the practice pad.
    I have to agree with Slinglander here, I got used to heavier sticks very early..elementry school and on, 2-B's..and I still like and use them..until recently, my wife bought at a garage sale the Zildjian Lousi Belston sticks, a whole box full for 10bucks..and I have to say that its really difficult for me to use these...I feel at times I gonna break them..so I play differently and not as powerfull as I normally play. So in short use the stick you like then practice your rudiments!
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  4. #4

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    Default Re: Rudiments with heavier sticks?

    Quote Originally Posted by almostmatt1 View Post
    So essentially the story goes, I did the (arguably) silly thing of striving for developing speed over good technique. My single stroke roll on my hands got to about the speed of 16ths at 250 bpm but the technique in my left hand is AWFUL. While my right hand plays mostly fingers and feels very comfortable and loose, my left uses primarily wrist, and I unintentionally tense all up my arm even to my shoulder on my left side when playing at higher speeds, mostly stuff like blast beats. The faster I push to, the more it tenses, and I'd been beginning to notice I'd been getting a very sore shoulder after playing because I'd been tensing that much.
    A few days ago I was having one of those off days that every drummer gets, where our brains just aren't connecting to our hands and feet properly. So I decided I was going to have a bit of a break for the day. That's when i noticed the pain in my shoulder was worse than it ever was. So I decided to break out the old practice pad and practice some of these strange rudiment things I've mostly been stubbornly neglecting these days I've decided to take myself right back to basics and drill better technique into my left hand. I got out my old book "Rudiments and Motions, Snare Drumming up close" by Frank Corniola, And I'm planning on working through that.

    So anyway my question is. What kind of difference would practicing rudiments with heavier sticks make? At the moment I've started doing rudimental practice with a pair of Pro Mark Jeff Moore signature sticks, as they're quiiiiiiite darn heavy sticks.

    I'm not sure if you can see very well that I'm using a lot of wrist, not a lot of fingers and tensing my arm from this video, but here's a video of me playing, if it helps anyone develop some more specific hints or tips.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HpmtmXc6Wb0&feature=plcp
    Thanks for reading, everyone!

    Jeff Moore's are Marching snare sticks and generally play on a surface that feels similar to playing on a counter top due to the tension used in those drums. Many drum lines play a lot of rudiments with them. They also play for 8+ hours a day during band camps/corps rehearsals, etc... So you shouldn't have a problem unless maybe your technique is off.

    Although a heavier stick could cause some fatigue, I think it's harder to play rudiments correctly with a lighter stick. Anything smaller than a 5B always felt unbalanced and too delicate to control the rebound required to play rudiments just wasn't there. Of course, if you had to play very quietly, sometimes going lighter is your only option.

    I never used the Jeff Moores as all of the drum lines I played or taught with but they are pretty close to the Vic Firth or Innovative Percussion sticks that I did used. I can't imagine the Jeff Moore sticks being too out of balance or that heavy (compared to other marching sticks), but I haven't really tried them to be sure. They should be fine for practicing.

    My go to stick for practicing rudiments is a Vic Firth SD-1, or Vic Firth Thom Hannum Piccolo Tips (STH3). Followed by Vic Firth, Ralph Hardimon's and then Innovative FS-1s.

    I only used the SD-1 in an orchestra and rudimental type setting, but I supposed they would work for a drumset. The beads are a little small so it would probably cause some denting on your heads if trying to play with them at higher volumes, but would otherwise be fine on a set. Also, they taper pretty sharply so they have a pretty thick shoulder. There can be a tendency to hit the head with the shoulder of the stick instead of the tip if your play angle is off. They are great for low/medium volume playing. Perhaps you could give those a try for rudiment practicing.

    The Thom Hannum Piccolo Tips feel great on a practice pad and have a nice feel on a marching snare as well if low volume is what you are looking for. They are too heavy with too small of a tip to use on non-marching heads. They will dent heads like crazy as you start to add volume, but they have a great rebound and feel for practice/marching.

    The other two sticks mentioned above were what was used during shows so we also used it during rehearsals as a line. They are fine for practicing, but don't feel as good as the SD1 and the Hannums. They easily outshine the others for durability as they don't taper down to such a small tip.

    Not sure if that helps, but that's my thoughts on the matter.

    Tan

  5. #5

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    Default Re: Rudiments with heavier sticks?

    Anything smaller than a 5B always felt unbalanced and too delicate to control the rebound required to play rudiments just wasn't there.
    Yes, much truth to this. You can get better rebound with a little more weight in the stick.

  6. #6

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    Default Re: Rudiments with heavier sticks?

    When I used to practice on pillows, I would use heavier sticks, but, by heavier, I don't mean that you go from 1 lb sticks to 5 lb sticks.

    If your regular playing sticks are 1 lb, practice with 1 1/2 lb sticks. In other words, 1 step up. That's all you need.

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