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Thread: Real cymbals with edrums

  1. #1

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    Default Real cymbals with edrums

    Hi out there,

    I'm looking to add real cymbals to complement my Yamaha dtx500 kit, and I was wondering what people's experience is with this. There was a post from 2 years ago, but since i'm a newbie I can't pm these people.

    Anyway, I'm pretty set on getting the zildjian A 18" crash ride, since I love Art Blakey and how it booms through his music. Plus, I figure a ride is the best place to start when you've only got 1-zone e-cymbals, and this one also crashes well so extra bonus.

    I was also thinking of adding a splash, mainly because I can put that directly on the rack with another cymbal attachment. I'm afraid anything bigger than 15" would make the rack unstable and I did some measurements and anything bigger than that might also cause some space issues. So if anyone knows anything about that, that would also be helpful.

    Finally, I was playing today and realized that I liked the splash on the ekit, as well as the fast crash, so then we get to the question why buy the real thing if what I already have is fine. So does anyone have any suggestions for what to add for a interesting, different sound in the 10-15" cymbal range? Budget is $200 or less.

    Thanks for all your help!

    Jon

  2. #2

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    Default Re: Real cymbals with edrums

    So here's my two cents. Why?

    I know people do it, and I'm not judging, but you have to identify why you want to combine them. It will also depend on whether you are gigging, etc...

    If you combine acoustic and electronic drums/cymbals the big issue is balance. The e-kit stuff will go through you headphones, but the acoustic cymbals won't be nearly as clear.

    If you gig and put it all in to a PA then you have to worry about balancing the levels. That's not a huge deal, but just something to keep in mind. Also, most people use e-kits to help balance stage volume and acoustic cymbals (in my 30+ years of experience) are a big problem in terms of that.

    Another option is putting the $ towards better Yamaha e-cymbals. The PCY100/135/155 are very solid 3 zone cymbals that will work out of the box with your module. Then just adjust the settings to the cymbal sound you like and go from there. The 100's are like $90, 135's are about $110, and the 155 ride is like $150-$200. So for like $200 you could get a 135 and a 100 and have a 3 zone ride and crash on your kit. All three of these cymbals are chokable on your module as well, which is an awesome feature.

    Just a thought.
    Jesse

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  3. #3

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    Default Re: Real cymbals with edrums

    firstly, thanks for the response!

    I see your point, and let's say gigging is still pretty far off. It's a lot of food for thought, I really do love the sound of real cymbals so I can feel a tidal wave of irrationality behind me screaming not to listen...

    How does a ride mesh with the ekits? These are the most dynamic of cymbals, and I really want that booming crash from the 18"A Crash Ride.

    Bottom line, if you were to add one real cymbal to an ekit, which one would you?

    Thanks again, a real eye-opener!

    Jon

  4. #4

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    Default Re: Real cymbals with edrums

    You can change the "size" of the cymbal via the control module. It may not "look" bigger ... but it should "behave" bigger - take that anyway you want You can also tweak the volume settings for the cymbal voices to a higher value too.

    Whenever I have heard folks mention Yamaha's PCY155 ... folks do nothing but glow over it.


    Edit:

    Oops ... sorry to mislead you. I have a DTX700 - it allows me to change the "size" of the cymbal. I thought the DTX500 had the same menu options.
    Last edited by theoak; 08-01-2012 at 04:55 PM.

  5. #5

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    Default Re: Real cymbals with edrums

    thanks oak! I will say that the options on the dtx500 computer for such cymbals is rather limited (if you figure 3-zones should be used for the same cymbal) in terms of the crash, but luckily I like all 3 of them so I think I'll pick it up!

  6. #6

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    Default Re: Real cymbals with edrums

    Hmmm, I have a DTX700 ... it allows you to change the "size" or diameter of the cymbal. I assumed the DTX500 had a similar menu option. Sorry if I misled you there :(

  7. #7

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    I will also add that the DTX500 will only support a 3 voice ride and crash (it has a dedicated input for ride and a dedicated input for crash). For a third cymbal you will need to use a Tom input. It will only be one voice ... not sure about muting/choking on a Tom input and if that would work ... otherwise it should work fine.
    Last edited by theoak; 08-01-2012 at 04:54 PM.

  8. #8

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    I say go for real cymbals. They just sound better. There should be no problem balancing. It's all in the selection. I would go to smaller cymbals. Small crash/ ride (or a hi hat bottom cymbal) and the splashes would become crashes.

  9. #9

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    Default Re: Real cymbals with edrums

    Hi Oak,

    A bit late, I ordered the 135 last night.

    What i'm going to do is plug that one into the cymbal input, then plug one of 1 zoners into tom input.

    I'm thinking of waiting until xmas on a decision regarding getting a real cymbal (18"A crash ride) or not. i'm going today to really try it out, but its also a question of time: I want to go for a phd and I have a full-time job. So is it worth the investment?

    The heart says yes, the brain says maybe not. stupid life decisions...

  10. #10

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    Job ... PHD ... who needs those

    Enjoy the 135

  11. #11

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    Default Re: Real cymbals with edrums

    haha if only I were good enough to blow those off!

    Actually, I had time today to go to a drum shop and I think I'm going to just stick with the 135 for now, I was utterly disappointed with the 18A crash ride, it sounded horrible, nothing like on the zildjian website (which is exactly how art blakey's sound as well, so maybe its just a lemon at the store).

    so now I get the spend the next few months experimenting and deciding if

    1. Get a real cymbal or another 135/155?

    2. Does the 135 work better as a crash or ride?

    In other words, more drumming, less foruming. But on a closing note, thank you all for your help, and I did find 3 good possibilities if you want to have 1 real cymbal for an ekit:

    Paiste Reflector 18" Full crash
    Z Custom thrash ride 19" (was a bit surprised myself on that one)
    K Dark Crash 18"

    All had that nice, ride and crash combo that would go well for rock and for jazz , but the 135/155s are cheaper, and you can change their sound so we'll see.

    jon

  12. #12

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    Default Re: Real cymbals with edrums

    Back in the 80's when i was playing a Simmons E-kit I used real cymbals. I don't even think they had E-cymbal back then. Worked out fine.




  13. #13

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    nice, it almost looks like the death star!

  14. #14

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    I love the chair!

  15. #15

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    So Kaosotis, I got the 135 the other day, definitely a better choice, thanks again for your advice, I love how I have three different types of cymbal on one pad, of course now I wish I had more choices on the dtx500, but I can live with this champagne problem!

    You're the man Kaosotis!

  16. #16

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    Default Re: Real cymbals with edrums

    Try the new Zildjian Gen 16's!!!

  17. #17

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    I added a PCY155 to my kit and now the PCY135 is my main crash.
    I use the PCY100 as a 2nd crash. It's plugged into the Aux in on the KP65.
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  18. #18

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    Default Re: Real cymbals with edrums

    Quote Originally Posted by 247drums View Post
    Try the new Zildjian Gen 16's!!!
    right!
    i play acoustic but ive spent alot of time behind ekits and i like them, ive played pro quality Rolands and still didnt like the e-cymbals yet i think adding real cymbals to an ekit would be a stark contrast to the sound, might be undesirable given the gazillion options a good module affords.
    i say try it with some cheap cymbals first.

  19. #19

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    I use to do this all the time. The only thing i would suggest is to use slightly thinner cymbals than maybe normal for crashes. Thins and medium thins in 16 & 18in. crashes worked really well for me.

  20. #20

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    In one of my percussion set ups, I'm using a Roland HDP-10 "hand drum" and an old Roland Octapad SPD-20 with a Roland PDX-8 pad connected to each of those two devices (both PDX-8 pads attached to "gajate" foot brackets to be used as kick drums or various percussion sounds such as foot operated cowbells), a Roland FD-8 foot pedal is also connected to the Octapad. But to the left of these two devices, I have an acoustic mini timbale set up (these will be replaced by a couple of small Alesis pads eventually) and clamped above that are various cowbells, splashes, a mini china, an accent bell, a 14" crash (a mix of Zildjians, Paistes and an odd Italian cymbal) plus my windchimes and triangle.
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