Stick sizes

[tadly]

Thought I would share this, as it might be useful to someone...

I have gotten into the habit of playing with Vic Firth AC Metal Nylon tips, because they said I wasn't playing loud enough at church (more reach, more power.) Previously I had been using 5Bs (esp PM Shira Kashi Oak) and Vater Eternal Black Punisher model (b/c I was looking for something close to a 5B, but with a round tip.) I wanted to transition back to a stick I could find in any brand so I could "price match" better, so I bought some ProMark 2Bs. I was surprised at how much shorter they were (than the VC Metal), and how hard it has been to get used to playing with them. So I made a comparison list of sizes between the "major brands." FYI--I don't ever buy Zildjian sticks, but I included them just for the sake of comparison. I also didn't include artist models, as I never by artist models. These are also all listings from manufacturer sites for nylon tip, as that's what I play almost exclusively. Here's what I came up with:

Vic Firth Classic Metal Nylon
L 17" Dia. .635"
Vater Eternal Black
Punisher L 16 1/4" Dia. .605"
Destoyer L 16 1/2" Dia. .630"
Vater Fatback 3A
L 16" Dia .590" (wood tip only)
3A
ProMark L 16" Dia .590" (11A Joe Morello)
Vic Firth L 16 3/16" Dia. .580"
Vater L 16 " Dia. .590" (fatback)
Zildjian L 16" Dia .580"
2B
ProMark L 16" Dia .630" (hick & oak)
ProMark L 17" Dia .630" ("the natural")
Vic Firth L 16 1/4" Dia. .630"
Vater L 16 1/4" Dia. .635"
Zildjian L 16" Dia .625"

5B
ProMark L 16" Dia .590"
Vater L 16" Dia. .605"
Vic Firth L 16" Dia .595"
Zildjian L 16" Dia .600"

5A
ProMark L 16" Dia .551"
Vater L 16" Dia. .580" (los angeles)
Vic Firth L 16" Dia .565"
Zildjian L 16" Dia .560"

Rock
ProMark none
Vater L 16 5/8" Dia .630"
Vic Firth L 16 5/8" Dia .630"
Zildjian L 16 5/8" Dia .625"

As far as sizes go, there's not a lot of consistency...maybe in length, but def not in diameter. True, .005" isn't a lot, but it does affect the weight, which could change the feel of the stick. I know density & weight can vary due to differences in wood, but I would have liked to see that, too, just for kicks.

Another note: as far as websites go, ProMark's is best, insofar as you can narrow your search by almost any aspect. PM, VF, & Vater all list sizes along with pics as a gallery view, which is nice. Zildjian...well...kinda sucked. It was also a gallery view, but they showed many of the same models in different colors, and no actual sizes--you had to click on each one to see the actual sizes--and the pic was of the whole stick. VC, PM & Vater had closer pics from the shoulder to tip, which is much more useful as you can really see the tip & taper a lot better.

[Nechre]

I'm going to give a critique of your comment about consistancy, and I want to preface it by saying I don't intend any sort of insult or anything by it, I am simply pointing out flaws.

You realize that in most of these you're listed, you're talking about 5 **thousandths** of an inch right? That's 1 two-hundredth of an inch. To give you an idea of how small that is - your standard rulers typically break down inches into 1/16 marks. Imagine within that inch 200 little markers spaced evenly. One of those little spaces is what we're talking about. We're not talking about manufacturing gears here, the weight you're talking about losing is negligible, even accounting for the loss of diameter through the entire width of the stick.

To another point, perhaps this perceived lack of consistency is actually intentional? These brands sticks may be different for a reason. If everyone were giving you the same product, what would be the point of checking out or even having different brands? It's like asking GM, Toyota and Nissan to each start making the same exteriors, weights, etc. for each of their respective compacts, sedans, and trucks so that you know that you're looking at a car of a certain type. Each of these manufacturers may have a different idea of what a "rock" stick should be, or what a "5b" should be. I'd bet in the days before CNC there was more than a .005 variation in some of the more standardized models of stick, and probably even within pairs of sticks.

Because I feel like I've ended up kind of beating you up over your post, I would agree that Zildjian has no idea how to organize their site, either for sticks or cymbals.

[tadly]

As someone who makes a living machining material to tolerances as small as +/-.002", I am aware of how small .005" is. In terms of a drumstick, yes, that's pretty negligible, even when you're talking a .015" difference, such as between a PM and Vater 5B. Most companies probably run their sticks with a +/-.005" tolerance, and I could probably mic a PM and VF 5B & find two that are the same size. That's not exactly my point in saying that, though...my point was merely that a 5B should be a 5B...the spec should be the same, regardless of company. That's the machinist in me. Ideally, if you got a box bare wood 5Bs from several companies--no logos or anything--you shouldn't be able to tell which company made them. Sizes, tips, tapers, etc., should be identical. Again, that's not gonna happen, either--most companies do something to differentiate their sticks (Vater's "square" ends vs PM's round.) From a consistency point of view, though, they should be identical. The grades--5A, 5B, 7A, 2B, etc.--are "supposed" to be an "industry standard" so you know what size stick you're getting.

I'll also say this: if someone has used PM 5B's for years and you hand him a pair of VF 5B's, I'd bet my next paycheck he'd say they felt different.

[late8]

5A
ProMark L 16" Dia .551"
Vater L 16" Dia. .580" (los angeles)
Vic Firth L 16" Dia .565"
Zildjian L 16" Dia .560"

Now I know why I prefer the PM 5A over the Vater 5A (Los Angeles). I can feel the .029 difference in diameter but .005 would be hard to distinguish in my opinion.

[slinky]

The company that I have found to kinda set themselves apart from the rest is Regal Tip. If I remember right their 2B's have a .655 dia. It's the thickest 2B that I have found and they are insanely light.

[drumsetsnide]

I don't understand how stick sizes became what they are or why. I have done a little bit of research about this but it wasn't very good and didn't provide any concrete answers.

What I do know is I have been using Vic Firth 5A and sometimes a Vic Firth 5B and I love those sticks.

[DrummerD]

I'll also say this: if someone has used PM 5B's for years and you hand him a pair of VF 5B's, I'd bet my next paycheck he'd say they felt different.

I used VF 5B's for a couple of years and then tried PM 5B's. I switched to PM 5B's because they felt better to me.

[slinglander]

FYI: Regal Tip 5A= 16"L .580" D. 5B= 16"L .600" D
Stick profiles have changed from "back in the day" when they had more of a long taper to the tip(more like today's "swing" or jazz sticks form various companies) and that has changed the weight and feel of the sticks. I suppose this has been done to prevent sticks from breaking from the harder cymbal hits common in today's music.