Paragon vs. Holy China

[NedgarAllanPoe]

Recently I got a big crack in my 19" AAX Xtreme china and I'm looking for a replacement, i've come to the conclusion that I want either the 19" Paragon or the 19" Holy China, I like the sound of both of them a lot.

If it helps I play in a metal band but I play a lot of other kind of stuff when i'm just practicing by myself, i'm really into progressive stuff too.

You should all give your opinions of those 2 china's and maybe even recommend any other good chinese cymbals. (Preferably Sabian)

[marko138]

All 3 are excellent chinas. I'd rage with any of them.

[wolvie56]

I've never played on a Holy Cymbal. But I actually have a 19" Paragon and I love it. Sucks that you broke your cymbal. Have you heard about cymbal springs? They are made to allow your china to move freely and are supposed to prevent stresses. They were originally made for china's, but work well with all cymbals.

[NedgarAllanPoe]

I've never played on a Holy Cymbal. But I actually have a 19" Paragon and I love it. Sucks that you broke your cymbal. Have you heard about cymbal springs? They are made to allow your china to move freely and are supposed to prevent stresses. They were originally made for china's, but work well with all cymbals.

Thanks! I'll definitely check and see if I can get some cymbal springs, they sound like they would probably help a lot!

[Nechre]

Metal? Holy China. The paragon flexes a bit too much. Sounds great though.

[brknsgnfcncdrummer]

Or you could save 90% and get a real trashy sound and just buy a 20" wuhan... just saying.. (I have a 18" and 20" wuhan. Other then that i have all professional cymbals, Z Custom, A Custom, Meinl Byzance.) You just cant beat the wuhans sound vs price ratio.

[ZildjianKid234]

Or you could save 90% and get a real trashy sound and just buy a 20" wuhan... just saying.. (I have a 18" and 20" wuhan. Other then that i have all professional cymbals, Z Custom, A Custom, Meinl Byzance.) You just cant beat the wuhans sound vs price ratio.

+1. I love my 18" Wuhan. The durability might be a concern though. If he managed to break his AAX, I think he might make quick work of a Wuhan. Either way, they are only around $50, so it wouldn't be a really big deal either.

[NedgarAllanPoe]

Or you could save 90% and get a real trashy sound and just buy a 20" wuhan... just saying.. (I have a 18" and 20" wuhan. Other then that i have all professional cymbals, Z Custom, A Custom, Meinl Byzance.) You just cant beat the wuhans sound vs price ratio.

Not a big fan of Wuhans, they're a little too trashy for me. I've only ever owned a 16" though, not sure what the 18"s are like.

[ZildjianKid234]

Not a big fan of Wuhans, they're a little too trashy for me. I've only ever owned a 16" though, not sure what the 18"s are like.

Then they probably aren't the best then, very very trashy. I can vouch for Zildjian Oriental Trash china's, but they're not Sabian, like you specified. Holy China's are pretty good, though!

ZK

[NedgarAllanPoe]

Then they probably aren't the best then, very very trashy. I can vouch for Zildjian Oriental Trash china's, but they're not Sabian, like you specified. Holy China's are pretty good, though!

ZK

Yeah i've heard a lot of good stuff about the Oriental china's but i'm more of a Sabian guy. It also doesn't help that my local music store doesn't have the best selection of stuff.

[NedgarAllanPoe]

So i'm going out to my local music store to pick up one of these china's, i'm still not 100% sure on which one i'm getting, but i'm getting a cymbal spring while i'm out there for sure.

[Northern Redneck]

Wuhan, if they are good enough for Peart.......

[NedgarAllanPoe]

I had a Wuhan before, they're a little too trashy for my liking.

[NPYYZ]

Give a Zildjian Z3 China a try while your at the drum store. I almost bought one but the price was more then I was willing to spend at the time so I went with a Kasza China for $100.00, these sound great as well if you can find them,

[NedgarAllanPoe]

I'm not much of a zildjian player, but I looked and they don't have a z3 china, or the other one. They had a 16" Oriental, but still not for me and I wanted at least an 18" china. I ended up getting the 19" Holy china and a cymbal spring. Oh man is it loud.

[Dodeska]

I've never played on a Holy Cymbal. But I actually have a 19" Paragon and I love it. Sucks that you broke your cymbal. Have you heard about cymbal springs? They are made to allow your china to move freely and are supposed to prevent stresses. They were originally made for china's, but work well with all cymbals.

I was contemplating getting some of those but I've read reviews that say because they are attached with a screw it knackers the thread on the end of the cymbal stand. Is this right?

[NedgarAllanPoe]

I was contemplating getting some of those but I've read reviews that say because they are attached with a screw it knackers the thread on the end of the cymbal stand. Is this right?

That is something I noticed earlier, but I was jamming with my band for about 2 hours and giving the new china a little work out and I just looked at what you're talking about. I took off the cymbal spring, the threads are a little bit flattened but you can still get the wing nut on so it's not that big a deal. Plus I think the life of my cymbal is more important than the life of those threads.

[wolvie56]

That is something I noticed earlier, but I was jamming with my band for about 2 hours and giving the new china a little work out and I just looked at what you're talking about. I took off the cymbal spring, the threads are a little bit flattened but you can still get the wing nut on so it's not that big a deal. Plus I think the life of my cymbal is more important than the life of those threads.

Yep, this. There isn't any movement where the screw tightens down on the threads, so it is only going to be a compression issue. And if you look at it again, where the screw cranks down on the threads, it is quite a bit toward the bottom of the post, so your wing nut would never have to be threaded that low to begin with. I can live with the minor damage to the stem in order to protect my cymbals. I have them on all my pies. I like them cause my cymbals sound better using these due to the fact that they barely touch any part of the cymbal.

[NedgarAllanPoe]

Yep, this. There isn't any movement where the screw tightens down on the threads, so it is only going to be a compression issue. And if you look at it again, where the screw cranks down on the threads, it is quite a bit toward the bottom of the post, so your wing nut would never have to be threaded that low to begin with. I can live with the minor damage to the stem in order to protect my cymbals. I have them on all my pies. I like them cause my cymbals sound better using these due to the fact that they barely touch any part of the cymbal.

Thats exactly how I feel, although it is a little annoying when my china is flying back and forth when I hit it hahaha I guess it's a small price to pay for it to hopefully live longer!

[Dodeska]

Thanks for the info guys. It's good to know.

[NPYYZ]

Thats exactly how I feel, although it is a little annoying when my china is flying back and forth when I hit it hahaha I guess it's a small price to pay for it to hopefully live longer!

That's why I don't use cymbal springs, way to much flopping around. Proper use of felts , the correct tightening of the wing nut, and correctly playing the cymbal is all you need.

[wolvie56]

It's just a matter of adjusting your technique and timing with the cymbal movement. Haven't experienced a situation where it changed the timing of the song yet. Just like everything else it takes a little practice. It comes back at you with the same energy you used to send it, so that's the adjustment. Hard and fast, it comes back fast and hard. Smooth and mellow, comes back mellow and smooth. I like the fact that I don't have to mess with a concave washer, 2 felts, a sleeve, and a wing nut anymore. Plus the way it lets the cymbals resonate better. To each his own. Happy drumming.

[NedgarAllanPoe]

It's just a matter of adjusting your technique and timing with the cymbal movement. Haven't experienced a situation where it changed the timing of the song yet. Just like everything else it takes a little practice. It comes back at you with the same energy you used to send it, so that's the adjustment. Hard and fast, it comes back fast and hard. Smooth and mellow, comes back mellow and smooth. I like the fact that I don't have to mess with a concave washer, 2 felts, a sleeve, and a wing nut anymore. Plus the way it lets the cymbals resonate better. To each his own. Happy drumming.

Very true, I use it for my china so usually it's not a big issue, but when I try to throw it into small blasts it gets annoying but I'll get used to it. And I've noticed already that setting it up is less of a pain in the *** because I don't have to deal with all those things you listed, just one little plastic nut and the neoprene piece stays attached.

[tadly]

I'm not much of a zildjian player, but I looked and they don't have a z3 china, or the other one. They had a 16" Oriental, but still not for me and I wanted at least an 18" china. I ended up getting the 19" Holy china and a cymbal spring. Oh man is it loud.

That's what I've heard about the Holy Chinas...I almost bought one, but a large part of what I do is smaller clubs/venues, and 'controlled sound' type gigs. I was afraid I'd never be able to use it.

I have a 19" AAXtreme China, just like the one you broke. Love it!

[NedgarAllanPoe]

That's what I've heard about the Holy Chinas...I almost bought one, but a large part of what I do is smaller clubs/venues, and 'controlled sound' type gigs. I was afraid I'd never be able to use it.

I have a 19" AAXtreme China, just like the one you broke. Love it!

Honestly I don't think the Holy China is much louder than the AAXtreme was when it was new, but the Holy China is a lot easier to open up and it doesn't take much to get a nice and cutting sound from it. And for some reason I found the AAXtreme to be really piercing and annoying sometimes, but the Holy China just sounds better IMO.