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Thread: confused? Moller

  1. #1

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    Default confused? Moller

    ok check this out
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aD1g3oONhXg

    i want to learn this real bad, but he refers this to "fast singles" when hes doing triplets on his hands... how does this work... and how does he make that triplets SOUND like single strokes, theres gotta be a trick to this.

  2. #2

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    I must say first off, Royster's playing is much better than his acting lol.
    I think when he refers to single strokes it's because he isn't dragging the notes or pressing, not sure though. I've never practiced or studied the Moller technique or none really for that matter lol.
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  3. #3

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    ok so i still consider myself a newbie as ive only been playing for almost 3 years, but this is how i interperet this dude's technique--

    he is playing triplets but the hits seem to be alternateing between the 2 hands--like the left hand will hit its 1st hit, and then the rite hand will hit its 2nd hit rite after, but before his left hits the second hit of the triplet...thats what i saw anyway, so its kinda just a fast way to do single strokes, cuz your doin it in triplets...

    i hope i said all that rite!! it took a minute til i wrapped my brain around it too, so i hope i helped a lil bit

  4. #4

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    Just don't accent the beginning of the triplets. Then it will just sound like a stream of notes. Albeit, the harder thing to get your head around is the subdivisions.

    That is, if your playing triplets on each hand, but you're playing 16ths for the song, you'll end up 1 hit behind each bar.

    e.g

    |: RRRL LLRR RLLL RRRL | LLRR RLLL RRRL LLRR | RLLL RRRL LLRR RLLL :|

    Effectively, a sort of cross rhythm - as the pattern repeats over 3 bars.

    HB58
    My Kit: Pearl Session Custom 7 Piece w/ Zildjian Cymbals
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    Rudiments?

  5. #5

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    Quote Originally Posted by hellsbells58 View Post
    Just don't accent the beginning of the triplets. Then it will just sound like a stream of notes. Albeit, the harder thing to get your head around is the subdivisions.

    That is, if your playing triplets on each hand, but you're playing 16ths for the song, you'll end up 1 hit behind each bar.

    e.g

    |: RRRL LLRR RLLL RRRL | LLRR RLLL RRRL LLRR | RLLL RRRL LLRR RLLL :|

    Effectively, a sort of cross rhythm - as the pattern repeats over 3 bars.

    HB58
    okay not quite gettin that yet. you mean you have to play 4 bars of his moller stroke to get back on beat?

  6. #6

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    oh and also, i found it very hard NOT to accent the first triplet, hwo woulda known? :P

  7. #7

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    I love Tony's playing but that's a horrible way to teach it. It just confuses everybody.

    For the record: A single stroke roll is "alternating single strokes" (RLRLRLRL...) NOTHING ELSE.

    He's just demonstrating how you can get one hand to go faster by incorporating the moeller technique. He's using groups of threes in each hand simply to demonstrate how the Moeller technique uses this method.
    - Tom

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  8. #8

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    so he isnt using the moller technique when he does those fast singles? the moller technique is just a good way to develop single strokes? still pretty confused

  9. #9

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    Yes, he is using the Moeller technique but he's just demonstrating it in groups of 3 in each hand (this is why it confuses you). But when he's playing it, he's playing only 1 "single" in each hand.
    - Tom

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  10. #10

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    I get it now, thanks drummer.

  11. #11

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    I swore that the Moeller technique was applied when you wanted to do 16th's or something with one hand only...so hitting 16ths or something continuously on the snare drum or toms and doing something different.
    Today, on Ethel The Frog...

  12. #12

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    All the moller technique does is allows you to develop speed by being more efficient with your stroke. So if you watch the way he explains it (i'm assuming it's the video I saw ages ago, as I can no longer watch anything on youtube) your arm, from the elbow makes the whole movement - he explains this as the whipping motion. So you strike once on the downward movement, then a second stroke is made from the wrist, and a third stroke is made on the upward motion. This way in 1 movement of your arm, you can get in three strokes - this isn't a triplet, so don't think of it as a triplet.

    By doing this with alternate hands your single stroke roll can become very very fast (after enough practise of course) without exerting to much effort, as your really only moving your arms as you would for one stroke anyway. That's the point/advantage of this technique. When he plays it (or anyone for that matter) the hits still come in as RLRLRLRLRL but it becomes so fast it is hard to tell. One of the key points is to keep your arm and wrist very loose - if you tense up you can't do it.

    It's kind of like putting a push/pull after a normal stroke. Oh and Ethel, I think the technqiue you were talking about is that - the push/pull.
    "What consumes your mind, controls your life" - So, what consumes your mind?

  13. #13

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    Yea, the push/pull technique is entirely different. It works by opening and closing the hand very fast. You push the stick into the cymbal or drum and pull it back with the fingers.

    Tim Waterson demonstrates it here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D70Xn8NkpFk
    Billy Kilson does a mean push/pull. So does JoJo Meyer.
    - Tom

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  14. #14

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    Yeah, I've seen JoJo Meyer's push/pull - the guy is brilliant. Although, I went to look for a video on it that I saw ages ago and I couldn't find it - was very sad
    "What consumes your mind, controls your life" - So, what consumes your mind?

  15. #15

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    I'm currently working on the Moellar. My drum teacher brought it up and i've been practicing it a bit lately.
    "Music is always an experiment."

  16. #16

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    Dude, I can't even wrap my brain around any of this yet! I'm just working on the basics, so I can't even imagine relaxing my wrist enough to get a good whipping action. You guys amaze me!!
    Quoting gonefishin: Just have some bacon with ya when you go pick her up..........youre an instant chick magnet.


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  17. #17

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    Oh, don't think I can do it PB - I've never really tried - I just know the how, the mechanics of it. Actually applying it and practising it and devleoping the technique is WHOLE different story.

    The moller is one I've seen lots and lots and always thought - "Yeah, I shold try and learn that" - but taking the time and applying myself is just proving too difficult, especially with two young kids and a wife who has just started working aswell - drums have been put on the backburner a bit for me unfortunately.
    "What consumes your mind, controls your life" - So, what consumes your mind?

  18. #18

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    Hey, anyone know the official spelling though - we have moller moeller, moaller, mollar - does anyone actually know the proper way to spell it?
    "What consumes your mind, controls your life" - So, what consumes your mind?

  19. #19

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    I'm pretty sure it's Moeller.

    HB58
    My Kit: Pearl Session Custom 7 Piece w/ Zildjian Cymbals
    My Band: Lead Redemption
    Current Favourite Band: Necrophagist
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  20. #20

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    Yeah, everything I've read is Moeller, so I agree with you, HB.
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  21. #21

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    so doing single strokes is still the main factor to get fast at them?

  22. #22

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    My understanding is that it is single strokes, and each movement in the technique alternates between right and left so that the singles can come very fast. I understand it, but can't do it!
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  23. #23

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    Yes PB - that's right. The reason it gets confusing is becuase when someone shows this technique they usually just show one hand, then the other, then when they play it, the start with one hand, then suddenly add the other one in, but it is so fast that you can't tell properly if the strokes are alternating or what. Every video I have watched of someone showing this technique, the person is so comfortable doing it that they don't seem to realsie that they need to show people slower when playing with both hands as well as when they show it wiht just one hand.

    When leanring it is best to focus on building up the action one hand at a time though, at least, that's my undertsanding. I think the idea is so you don't try an dget ahead of yourself and get sloppy tehcnqie or do it wrong.
    "What consumes your mind, controls your life" - So, what consumes your mind?

  24. #24

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    It's all about technique. Piece by piece, doing the moeller on both hands would be as follows:

    1. Right arm whipping motion
    2. Left Arm whipping motion
    3. Right hand tap motion
    4. Left hand tap motion
    5. Right hand return stroke
    6. Left hand return stroke

    This would definately come in handy for sextuplets, it's already set out with the number of strokes needed.

    HB58
    My Kit: Pearl Session Custom 7 Piece w/ Zildjian Cymbals
    My Band: Lead Redemption
    Current Favourite Band: Necrophagist
    Current Favourite Song: To Rid The Disease - Opeth
    Next purchase: Pearl 18"x16" Floor Tom, Zildjian A Custom Crash

    Rudiments?

  25. #25

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    I night get flamed for this but i think moeller is overrated. You can go just as fast and with the same ease in any situation if you just master all the different grips.

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