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Thread: DW Buy's a bunch

  1. #26

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    Quote Originally Posted by drummer View Post
    Any guesses on why Fender unloaded them?
    Fender has a history of buying good companies and running them into the ground. Just look at SWR amps.

    Fender isn't in great shape financially. Hopefully this helps them get their house in order.

  2. #27

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    Default Re: DW Buy's a bunch

    Quote Originally Posted by kaosotis View Post
    From what people in the business are saying, I don't see it happening. The truth is that Gretsch and DW only compete at certain price points (Gretsch has a LOT more mid range stuff), and if both lines continue to be manufactured the same way, in the same factories, etc... people are going to stay brand loyal.

    If DW dropped Gretsch, those prior Gretsch loyal customers wouldn't spend their $ on DW, believe me. Not only are they pretty well entrenched camps, the Gretsch folks would feel betrayed and look for another brand (Ludwig maybe).
    Very true. I'm glad I bought my Gretsch USA drums a long time ago. Early eighties and Jasper shells. If I were ever to buy another set I would happily return to Ludwig. Gretsch has survived a lot of things over the years including the Baldwin years, but this could be the nail in the coffin.

    all the best...

  3. #28

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    Default Re: DW Buy's a bunch

    Quote Originally Posted by Sticks4drums View Post
    Well KMC has been pretty incompetent ,
    That is who stepped in when I was having difficulty getting my Gretsch Renown Bass drum replaced that got shipped and the finish was all cracked. The dealer really let me down and KMC coordinated the replacement and process to my satisfaction.
    Signature here

  4. #29

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    Default Re: DW Buy's a bunch

    Quote Originally Posted by 8beat View Post
    My guess is this is the end of Gretsch. They don't need two drum lines that compete for the same customer.
    +1. I see no reason why DW would invest in Gretsch to help them compete with DW for sales. As DW already have PDP to produce 'starter' and 'mid' priced/level sets I don't see how it would be in their own interest to continue with production of the full current range of Gretch products.

  5. #30

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    As I see it, PDP does not have the name recognition that Gretsch does. Gretsch is a well known, well respected name with 132 years of history behind it and although PDP has been around for a while, it does not have that kind of Cache.

    This is all speculation and arm chair quarterbacking of course, but I would be less surprised if the PDP name were to go away.

    The Collector series has always been DW's best known line. The Jazz series is very similar to the Gretsch USA custom line, right down to the similar badges and Maple/Gum/Maple three ply shells.. Gretsch is very well respected in jazz circles, whereas DW's Jazz series is the "new guy". I would expect that the DW jazz series could be discontinued.

    Another thing to bear in mind is that Gretsch sources it's shells for their American made drum lines from Keller. DW makes it's own shells. I could imagine DW beginning to source the shells for Gretsch's American made kits.

    I am a fan of both companies for whatever it's worth. I'm going make a bowl of popcorn, sit back and see how this plays out.
    -Mike


    "We don't stop playing because we grow old.
    We grow old because we stop playing."

    "I wish that my playing reminded people of Steve Gadd. But they seem to confuse me with his little known cousin... E."

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  6. #31

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    Quote Originally Posted by drummer5359 View Post
    As I see it, PDP does not have the name recognition that Gretsch does. Gretsch is a well known, well respected name with 132 years of history behind it and although PDP has been around for a while, it does not have that kind of Cache.

    This is all speculation and arm chair quarterbacking of course, but I would be less surprised if the PDP name were to go away.

    The Collector series has always been DW's best known line. The Jazz series is very similar to the Gretsch USA custom line, right down to the similar badges and Maple/Gum/Maple three ply shells.. Gretsch is very well respected in jazz circles, whereas DW's Jazz series is the "new guy". I would expect that the DW jazz series could be discontinued.

    Another thing to bear in mind is that Gretsch sources it's shells for their American made drum lines from Keller. DW makes it's own shells. I could imagine DW beginning to source the shells for Gretsch's American made kits.

    I am a fan of both companies for whatever it's worth. I'm going make a bowl of popcorn, sit back and see how this plays out.
    While I know very little about jazz, I'm with you on all the other points you made here.

  7. #32

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    My local indie music store told me that KMC laid off a bunch of regional sales reps a few years ago. When I ordered my USA Customs last year, the store had no "inside" contacts left to check the status of my order when it was returned for workmanship and quality issues. I questioned the longevity of Gretsch when I finally reached the customer service line at KMC and the voice on the other end laughed and said "they ain't going anywhere". Now I question that comment made to me now that this story broke. DW has a good foot hold on the music industry. They could only do good for Gretsch and Fender.

  8. #33

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    Since we are all predicting the future here (much fun), I think Mike's thinking on the Gretsch/PDP scenario is most likely. I, too, expect that PDP will be ditched and rebranded as Gretsch, which will retain a line or two of American made kits, with shells made by DW, of course. That Gretsch name carries much more cache than PDP. They might retain the PDP name for entry level kits. (By the way, I own Pacifics.)

    GeeDeeEmm

  9. #34

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    Default Re: DW Buy's a bunch

    Quote Originally Posted by crispycritters View Post
    +1. I see no reason why DW would invest in Gretsch to help them compete with DW for sales. As DW already have PDP to produce 'starter' and 'mid' priced/level sets I don't see how it would be in their own interest to continue with production of the full current range of Gretch products.
    The brand "Gretsch" has value............actual value as on a balance sheet.
    By having more brand-value, DW will gain market share.
    In the context of the supply side of quality American-made maple shell packs, this news is likely most troubling to Ludwig.

    Founded in 1883, the Gretsch brand is now in year # 132. Over the years, I have seen the Gretsch brand bounce around from the Gretsch family to Baldwin Piano to Baldwin United and back to the Gretsch family, then a lease to KMC...............Brooklyn to Arkansas to South Carolina.

    None of these Gretsch acquisitions were intended to kill the brand.

    I see your point about cutting competition, but throwing away brand value makes no sense.
    Gretsch USA & Zildjian
    (What Else Would I Ever Need ?)


  10. #35

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    Default Re: DW Buy's a bunch

    I don't see them eliminating the Gretsch name either. It will for sure be interesting to see what happens

  11. #36

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ricardo View Post
    The brand "Gretsch" has value............actual value as on a balance sheet.
    By having more brand-value, DW will gain market share.
    In the context of the supply side of quality American-made maple shell packs, this news is likely most troubling to Ludwig.

    Founded in 1883, the Gretsch brand is now in year # 132. Over the years, I have seen the Gretsch brand bounce around from the Gretsch family to Baldwin Piano to Baldwin United and back to the Gretsch family, then a lease to KMC...............Brooklyn to Arkansas to South Carolina.

    None of these Gretsch acquisitions were intended to kill the brand.

    I see your point about cutting competition, but throwing away brand value makes no sense.
    I see what you mean about brand name value when it comes to Gretsch and you certainly have made a good observation. I'm assuming that DW will now own the names of all previous Gretsch product and rights to manufacture new ranges using those names if they wish to do so (BMW successfully re-launched the 'Mini' car, Triumph Motorcycles did the same using the 'Bonneville' name - both are entirely new product made by different manufacturers which use styling cues and the original name - but in reality bear little similarity to the originals other than styling).
    I wouldn't be surprised if the current ranges of Gretsch, PDP (and possibly DW) are restructured by stopping manufacture of the slower selling/less profitable models to leave a complete range of product from starter to high end. Pure speculation on my part.
    If DW did allow Gretsch to fail they would be reducing competition for every other drum manufacturer out there.

  12. #37

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    Quote Originally Posted by late8 View Post
    My local indie music store told me that KMC laid off a bunch of regional sales reps a few years ago. When I ordered my USA Customs last year, the store had no "inside" contacts left to check the status of my order when it was returned for workmanship and quality issues. I questioned the longevity of Gretsch when I finally reached the customer service line at KMC and the voice on the other end laughed and said "they ain't going anywhere". Now I question that comment made to me now that this story broke. DW has a good foot hold on the music industry. They could only do good for Gretsch and Fender.
    Did that add any customer's confidence for you?
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  13. #38

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    Quote Originally Posted by Russ View Post
    Did that add any customer's confidence for you?
    Yes....

  14. #39

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    I believe this whole thing is a distribution deal. The manufacturing end of these businesses is not part of the deal. Fred Gretsch will still build the product and this new corporate entity will have the job of getting it sold to all parts of the continent or globe if it is an international deal.

    If it was the way people have been describing, we would see the new Gretsch Slogan, "That Good Gretsch Sound"
    click to see my kit re-veneer/finish
    http://www.drumchat.com/showthread.p...168#post379168

  15. #40

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    Default Re: DW Buy's a bunch

    Message from Don Lombardi Regarding Gretsch Drums

    Acoustic & Electronic:
    Tama Superstar Hyper-Drive (Birch)
    Premier Artist Maple (with Birch Snare) - yellow/fusion.
    Ludwig Acrolite (1976)
    Roland TD-1KV

    Paiste Signature:
    10" Splash
    14" Dark Crisp Hi-Hats
    14" Sound Edge Hi-Hats
    16", 17", 18", 20" Full Crash

    Paiste Formula 602:
    22" Formula 602 Modern Essentials Ride

    Paiste 2oo2:
    22" Ride

    Paiste Sound Formula:
    20" Full Ride (Frankenstein)

    Paiste Twenty:
    16" China


  16. #41

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    My main concern is the other companies (LP, Gibraltar, Sabian). DW's pricing is absolutely ridiculous most of the time so I really hope these companies won't have pricing increases.
    If Gretsch does stay the same, they should just drop PDP. Actually a lot of people I've talked to thought PDP was only an entry level company (basically like Pulse or Sound Percussion), so it certainly doesn't have the name value that Gretsch and DW do.
    As far as Toca is concerned, if DW is going to change things about the manufacturing processes, this is the company that needs it. Out of the 4 Toca products I've owned, only one actually worked as stated the entire time I had it. The other 3 were either damaged immediately or broke over time with minimal use. Not a fan of them at all.

  17. #42

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    There is quit a bit of DW's hardware came from Gibraltar.
    I did not trip and fall. I attacked the floor and I believe I am winning.

  18. #43

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    This is awesome, **warning your brand will be insulted so a little thick skin is required..I love it, still laughing

    http://www.redskymary.com/ NOT MY BAND, JUST A GREAT LOCAL BAND WHO SHOULD BE SOOO MUCH BIGGER IMO

    DW Collectors

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    Zildjian K Cymbals

    Decide whether this is love for the craft or simply an ego thing.

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  19. #44

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    Brilliant. That's very funny. Thanks for the effort.

    GeeDeeEmm

  20. #45

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    Hilarious!
    - Tom

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  21. #46

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    Default Re: DW Buy's a bunch

    Quote Originally Posted by yohin View Post
    No way...Gretsch is one of the oldest drum companies in America. They can't just throw away the brand like it's no big deal.
    some people buy gretsch for the history/name and others buy dw for the quality of the kits and how innovative they are. I really don't think they will lose any customers. In a round about way if all the companies obtained make money why would dw shut them down. in the long run its about bringing in the money for any business. so as long as gretsch, gibraltar, LP, and all the others listed are making money and not costing dw money they will probably keep them.
    Sabian!!!

  22. #47

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    Now THAT is the funniest video I've seen in years. As long as you don't speak German, LOL.

    "Maybe I should play Pearl & start a KISS cover band"
    "Ludwig? I'd rather play a banjo!"

    I love it.
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    Play the SONG......not the DRUMS!!!

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  23. #48

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    Quote Originally Posted by 8beat View Post
    My guess is this is the end of Gretsch. They don't need two drum lines that compete for the same customer.
    It's not really competition. All of the profits go to the same place.

    Collectors Black Ice Finishply
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  24. #49

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    Seems like everyone here is a little naive about business. All Gretsch drums except for their custom line are already made in Taiwan and their custom kits use Keller shells. The other thing that you guys are doing is assuming that the "evil bastards" at DW are plotting to raise the price of everything. Did we all just read the same article. DW didn't buy these companies piecemeal. They bought all of them together, FROM FENDER! Why isn't Fender the evil company. Why isn't DW's other brand, PDP, completely "overpriced". Bias, when it gets to a certain level, stops being merely annoying and starts to become blatantly false. Chances are, with DW being a bigger and more financially solvent company than Fender, the quality and service of these brands will go up and cost down.

    Collectors Black Ice Finishply
    10x8,12x9,15x12,16x14,20x18,24x16
    14X6 Collectors 10 and 6 snare Natural Satin
    14x8 Collectors Black Nickel over Brass

  25. #50

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    Always love those "Hitler reacts" videos.

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