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Thread: Decided to start lessons again

  1. #1

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    Default Decided to start lessons again

    First off, I apologize that this is so long. Bear with me for a moment...

    So, I decided to start taking lessons again as I feel I'm at a point where I'm not making progress like I should be. Even though I try, at a minimum, to squeeze in 20 minutes a day to practice, I feel like I'm just not going anywhere.

    I found an ad on CL for an instructor who only charges $20 an hour. Some red flags starting going off in my mind right away because of how little the instructor charges. I started reading the instructors credentials.

    His bio states:

    "Drumming of all styles! learn from a drummer whos passionate about all music and styles with over 15 years experience in live, studio and home surroundings."

    It then goes on to say:

    "I love drums!!!! So here's a little history about me, i've been playing drums now for over 15 years and have more than 200 live shows under my belt Opening for acts such as P.O.D, Lazarus A.D., Death Angel, Brotha Lynch, Outlaw Josie Wales, MXPX, Lag wagon, Filabuster, while playing various different styles which includes: hard rock, classic rock, pop, country, blues, jazz, hip hop, rap all the way to Rock, Metal, Grindcore and Punk rock, as well as one full major studio album recorded by engineers who worked with Greenday, The Killers, Metallica, Bush, Tool, The Who, Tom Petty, Celine Dion and many more!!! I teach beginner to advanced, less book and more feel, but i do teach how to read drum tab, So hey..!!!!!! I love music and i love to teach music. So if you love drums and wanna learn what it takes to make it happen- I hope to meet you soon!!"

    I Googled his name and found him listed on a very reputable site for music teachers in the area. I read all the reviews and they were all extremely positive.

    I called him and he sounded a little unenthusiastic at first until I really started talking to him about my experience and past lessons I have taken. He seemed a bit more excited after a few minutes and we discussed what I was looking to accomplish. I decided to give him a shot.

    What do you guys think? Am I wasting my time?
    Stolen from EddieV:
    Boom, ching, boom boom ching, fuggadugga fuggadugga fuggadugga crash. Rinse, Repeat ad-nauseum.

    Quote Originally Posted by drummer View Post
    Come on Mark. You steal copy. Just look at your signature.
    Quote Originally Posted by Texdrumr View Post
    Nothing says 'tough' like a drummer with ducklings on his drums. Ha!

  2. #2

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    Default Re: Decided to start lessons again

    Well, he's either legit or full of it.

    You will either get a great $20 lesson or $20 worth of entertainment. In one scenario you will be back, and in the other you won't.

    Either way, I think that it will be worth $20 at least once.

  3. #3

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    Default Re: Decided to start lessons again

    Not sure why you wouldn't at least give it a try. How much time does $20 get you? Have you found any videos of this guy to see if he has the practical credentials to teach someone at your current level? I wish I could find a good $20 teacher!

  4. #4

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    If he says in his email that he posts drum lessons for Expert Village.......



    ....run.

  5. #5

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    Default Re: Decided to start lessons again

    I'd try a few lessons and see how it goes.

    Do you have a specific goal in mind? How are you going to measure your progress?

  6. #6

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    Quote Originally Posted by xsabers View Post
    Not sure why you wouldn't at least give it a try. How much time does $20 get you? Have you found any videos of this guy to see if he has the practical credentials to teach someone at your current level? I wish I could find a good $20 teacher!
    The guy charges $20 an hour, thus the red flags that went off in my mind. I haven't seen any videos of him playing. I guess I'm either going to get a good deal or $20 worth of crapola. Guess I'll find out. I'm at least going to try him once. Ya never know.

    Quote Originally Posted by porkpieguy View Post
    If he says in his email that he posts drum lessons for Expert Village.......

    ....run.
    +1 to that!

    Quote Originally Posted by 8beat View Post
    I'd try a few lessons and see how it goes.

    Do you have a specific goal in mind? How are you going to measure your progress?
    Well, I'm hoping to learn site reading a little better, learn songs and be able to play them without making mistakes and learn to put some "feel" into what I play.
    Last edited by Markadiddle; 01-09-2015 at 10:52 AM.
    Stolen from EddieV:
    Boom, ching, boom boom ching, fuggadugga fuggadugga fuggadugga crash. Rinse, Repeat ad-nauseum.

    Quote Originally Posted by drummer View Post
    Come on Mark. You steal copy. Just look at your signature.
    Quote Originally Posted by Texdrumr View Post
    Nothing says 'tough' like a drummer with ducklings on his drums. Ha!

  7. #7

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    yeah, I'd say give it a shot if it's only 20 bucks. Most teachers would prefer to work with someone who has a lot of drum experience rather than a complete newbie (for obvious reasons). I have taken "lessons" with experienced drummers where it's more of a sharing of what you know and what I know. no charge, it's just good to share ideas rather than take an actual lesson.

    The thing I'm having a hard time with is he's only been playing for 15 years and has that much experience?

  8. #8

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cdeleone View Post

    The thing I'm having a hard time with is he's only been playing for 15 years and has that much experience?
    That's the other thing that put up a red flag for me.
    Stolen from EddieV:
    Boom, ching, boom boom ching, fuggadugga fuggadugga fuggadugga crash. Rinse, Repeat ad-nauseum.

    Quote Originally Posted by drummer View Post
    Come on Mark. You steal copy. Just look at your signature.
    Quote Originally Posted by Texdrumr View Post
    Nothing says 'tough' like a drummer with ducklings on his drums. Ha!

  9. #9

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    Default Re: Decided to start lessons again

    Quote Originally Posted by Markadiddle View Post


    Well, I'm hoping to learn site reading a little better, learn songs and be able to play them without making mistakes and learn to put some "feel" into what I play.
    My 2 cents:

    Dude, you've taken lessons from the Russian guy who bought the Drum Planet from Mike Johnston. You had another guy who came over to your garage last year and tried to teach you some stuff and now this guy? Ok...grant it, it's only $20.00 but to "learn songs and be able to play them without making mistakes", for me, is a lifelong process with or without lessons. In my humble opinion, if you want to just read tabs and jam with "play-along" drum tracks, you already got what it takes. I've seen and heard what you can do. You can play the kit just fine.

    To put some "feeling" behind what you play may require playing with other musicians to feed off the different vibes that's created during jam sessions. That's where I'd focus my time and that's how I learn dynamic control, by listening to other musicians. I think you've done enough "homework". Now, it's time to put some practical application behind what you've already paid major dollars for. Matt needs a drummer for his jam sessions. I no longer have the time to sit in with him and his buddies so he's doing all of the drumming himself. You could easily sit in with them and start grooving. You've been to those jams....nothing to it!

    Ok...done. I'll step off my "soap box".

    Last edited by late8; 01-09-2015 at 06:41 PM.

  10. #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by late8 View Post
    My 2 cents:

    Dude, you've taken lessons from the Russian guy who bought the Drum Planet from Mike Johnston. You had another guy who came over to your garage last year and tried to teach you some stuff and now this guy? Ok...grant it, it's only $20.00 but to "learn songs and be able to play them without making mistakes", for me, is a lifelong process with or without lessons. In my humble opinion, if you want to just read tabs and jam with "play-along" drum tracks, you already got what it takes. I've seen and heard what you can do. You can play the kit just fine.

    To put some "feeling" behind what you play may require playing with other musicians to feed off the different vibes that created during jam sessions. That's where I'd focus my time and that's how I learn dynamic control, by listening to other musicians. I think you've done enough "homework". Now, it's time to put some practical application behind what you've already paid major dollars for. Matt needs a drummer for his jam sessions. I no longer have the time to sit in with him and his buddies so he's doing all of the drumming himself. You could easily sit in with them and start grooving. You've been to those jams....nothing to it!

    Ok...done. I'll step off my "soap box".
    I appreciate the feedback, Rich. The first instructor I had only gave 1/2 hour lessons. He'd have me play single, double stroke rolls and paradiddles for 10 minutes, he would show off for 10-15 minutes, then let me "play" for the rest of the lesson. I didn't get much out of it. The second guy, which I thought was a good teacher, he really wasn't teaching me anything other than rudiments(which I think I can figure out on my own).

    I guess I'm just looking for a little more instruction and maybe someone to give me a kick in the backside to get me going again. I figured one $20 lesson wouldn't hurt anything but hey, ya never know. It may lead to some better understanding and learning for me.
    Last edited by Markadiddle; 01-09-2015 at 03:23 PM.
    Stolen from EddieV:
    Boom, ching, boom boom ching, fuggadugga fuggadugga fuggadugga crash. Rinse, Repeat ad-nauseum.

    Quote Originally Posted by drummer View Post
    Come on Mark. You steal copy. Just look at your signature.
    Quote Originally Posted by Texdrumr View Post
    Nothing says 'tough' like a drummer with ducklings on his drums. Ha!

  11. #11

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    Default Re: Decided to start lessons again

    I suggest going to him once for a test run. If at the end you aren't a better drummer, you'll have lost nothing except a small amount of money you'll make back anyways. Give him a test drive.
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  12. #12

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    For 20 bucks I'd give it a shot.


    And really though, my resume could look very similar to his and I'm in NO position to teach anyone anything. I've opened many shows for big names. And I've recorded in a studio that works with big names. Drumming almost 10 years now, gigging nearly 20 years total.

    So I'd take that with a grain of salt, but for 20 bucks give him a shot.

  13. #13

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    I'm with Rich on this. He knows you, has seen you play. If he says that you CAN play, that's gospel to me.

    If you can sight read (which I can't), getting better at it, to me, means just doing it more often. You can't be taught what you already know.

    Feel. Can't be taught. I don't care what anybody says, it can't be taught.

    By the same token, you can accumulate a lot of experience in 15 years if you are taking every opportunity to play, and play various styles. Buddy Rich had a band at 11, so I guess you can do quite a lot in 15 years.

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  14. #14

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    Thanks everyone for the advice. I think I'll give him one shot this Sunday and see what happens. The only thing that could possibly happen is I'm out an hour of my time and $20.
    Stolen from EddieV:
    Boom, ching, boom boom ching, fuggadugga fuggadugga fuggadugga crash. Rinse, Repeat ad-nauseum.

    Quote Originally Posted by drummer View Post
    Come on Mark. You steal copy. Just look at your signature.
    Quote Originally Posted by Texdrumr View Post
    Nothing says 'tough' like a drummer with ducklings on his drums. Ha!

  15. #15

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    Default Re: Decided to start lessons again

    While it's obviously low risk, I'm with Rich as well.

    The best way to improve, besides lessons and practice, is to play with other musicians. You'd be amazed at how quickly you will grow as a drummer.

    As for your comment about just learning rudiments, I wouldn't look down on that too much. Rudiments exist for a reason, and there are nuances there that an instructor could help with.
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  16. #16

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    For $20 and only 15yrs I would not expect much but ya never know.

    I have had instructors who are great drummers, but just not great instructors IMO.

    Just being a great drummer does not make a great instructor, and I feel you probably need to be playing for more than 15years to teach others but that.s just my opinion.

    Good luck and Let us know how it goes.
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  17. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by MDK View Post
    For $20 and only 15yrs I would not expect much but ya never know.

    I have had instructors who are great drummers, but just not great instructors IMO.

    Just being a great drummer does not make a great instructor, and I feel you probably need to be playing for more than 15years to teach others but that.s just my opinion.

    Good luck and Let us know how it goes.
    Thanks! I will definitely let everyone know.

    You guys are right though... 15 years may make you a good drummer but maybe not so much a good teacher. Who knows? It's low risk and I'm gonna give him at least one shot. If all goes well, $20 bucks an hour is a steal.
    Stolen from EddieV:
    Boom, ching, boom boom ching, fuggadugga fuggadugga fuggadugga crash. Rinse, Repeat ad-nauseum.

    Quote Originally Posted by drummer View Post
    Come on Mark. You steal copy. Just look at your signature.
    Quote Originally Posted by Texdrumr View Post
    Nothing says 'tough' like a drummer with ducklings on his drums. Ha!

  18. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by porkpieguy View Post
    If he says in his email that he posts drum lessons for Expert Village.......



    ....run.
    That made me laugh!

  19. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by Markadiddle View Post
    First off, I apologize that this is so long. Bear with me for a moment...

    So, I decided to start taking lessons again as I feel I'm at a point where I'm not making progress like I should be. Even though I try, at a minimum, to squeeze in 20 minutes a day to practice, I feel like I'm just not going anywhere.

    I found an ad on CL for an instructor who only charges $20 an hour. ...

    What do you guys think? Am I wasting my time?
    I'll give you an hour and a half for $12. I've been playing for 6 months and have a terrible lisp but if you read sign language, I can just sign the lesson to you. That's why the discount. Oh, also do you think you can front me the money today since I'm running a little low?

  20. #20

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    The first lesson might be free.

  21. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by drummer View Post
    I'll give you an hour and a half for $12. I've been playing for 6 months and have a terrible lisp but if you read sign language, I can just sign the lesson to you. That's why the discount. Oh, also do you think you can front me the money today since I'm running a little low?
    I think that sums it up pretty well. I'm going to give it one shot. It's only $20. Most I can lose is an hour of my time and $20. Who knows?
    Stolen from EddieV:
    Boom, ching, boom boom ching, fuggadugga fuggadugga fuggadugga crash. Rinse, Repeat ad-nauseum.

    Quote Originally Posted by drummer View Post
    Come on Mark. You steal copy. Just look at your signature.
    Quote Originally Posted by Texdrumr View Post
    Nothing says 'tough' like a drummer with ducklings on his drums. Ha!

  22. #22

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    20 bucks isn't much to lose...and Buddy Rich had his first band at 6!

    Since I've started playing, I've had two mentors. The first was just a kid, 10 years younger than me, but he started with, "you have to take a holistic approach..." I knew that I was in good hands.

    He moved to Germany, and I kinda randomly stumbled into my current one. He's been playing professionally for over 4 decades, he's basically Yoda. Anytime I have a question how to improve something, I get 1 of 2 answers, either a simple exercise which you can memorize on the spot, or "Just take it slowly Jon". Our lessons are basically me showing how well, I play this one piece of sheet music which we both practice everyday, then me just asking how I can improve X, and he shows me. I will add however, I have eDrums so in terms of playing in beat, I have that covered at home, so no need for a teacher to help with that.

    I think having a mentor is better than a teacher. A teacher is someone who shares knowledge, a mentor shares knowledge and experience and gives advice.

    As for your goals, I'm not sure regular lessons will really be worth it. I'm pretty good at sight reading, but at best an ok intermediate drummer. Of all instruments, that ability is probably least important on drums, and it is something you can practice on your own (assuming you have a printer). Being able to play songs exactly how they are without mistakes? Well, how often do you hear always the exact same fills live as from the album? An even better question is how is that going to improve your abilities as a drummer?

    as for feel, that's really one of those intangibles of music, something I believe you can only really develop by listening to music, playing along to music (but not copying what's played, but doing what you think works) and jamming with other people.
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  23. #23

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    (First and foremost....understand that I've been wanting to say this on this forum for a long time....but I don't because I don't want it to appear like an advertisement for myself. I've thought a lot about it the last few days....how to approach it - I'm not sure if I can, but here goes. )


    As someone who TEACHES drums FOR A LIVING this thread makes me want to scream and punch something.

    For the record , I left a good Corporate job, an easy GOOD paycheck with bonuses, benefits and vacation time .....to teach drum lessons some 7/8 years ago.

    I'd taught individual lessons before here and there upon request, usually friends and their kids, but in 2006 I was asked by a store owner to come in and teach an organized schedule of lessons, he had been looking for a teacher and I was recommended. SO...I began teaching drum lessons in the evenings. First just one night a week...then two.....soon I was teaching three nights per week.

    Turns out..I soon realized that "Teaching" drum lessons was the most gratifying thing I'd ever done outside of my kids and family etc.

    It wasn't all Unicorns and Rainbows though. I had my share of Meatheads who thought because they were awesome on ROCK BAND video games that they could play drums easily and they didn't last very long.

    I've had crazy parents who thought their kids should be able to play WIPEOUT after a months worth of lessons, and the crazy parent that wanted me to teach 7 year old Timmy how to play YYZ when he could barely master a left handed paradiddle.

    Eventually, early in 2008 I came to a crossroads where I was burning myself out working 45/53 hours per week at my regular job, then working three nights (sometimes 4) a week until 9pm teaching at the store. I couldn't teach on Saturdays because I had to work my day job on most Saturdays.

    I was killing myself, as I was also gigging quite a bit too. #nosleep

    I had to make a tough decision.

    I had felt like it was going to come to this crossroads before hand....so, for the almost 18 months previous I had saved just about every dollar I made gigging and teaching lessons without my wife knowing.

    When I made the decision and told my wife my plan to leave my cushy job and teach drum lessons, it was much easier to convince her with a cigar box full of hundred dollar bills. It was a safety net.

    We figured out how much I needed to "bring in" per week bare-minimum, and we'd use the cigar box money as needed if we had any short weeks. If it began to run out, I would admit failure and find another job or go back to the one I had.

    So..with my wife's support - I Left my "corporate" day job (on good terms) and began teaching at the store full-time.

    I - WAS- TERRIFIED. This was the scariest thing I've ever done in my life. (don't forget....I also had a 5 year old and a 2 year old running around).

    One year later....the store VERY unexpectedly closed. The Owner decided to get out of the business and move to another city.

    I wasn't really concerned about the store closing....but I was losing my "source" for new students.

    I took some of the "cigar box money" that I still had and converted one of my extra bedrooms into a drum room. I then moved all my students to my home, luckily I only lost one student as my home was 20 minutes away from the store.

    If you've never worked from your home - WITH YOUR CLIENTS COMING IN AND OUT - it's a hell of a sacrifice, and very difficult for your other family members. (but that's a whole 'nother thread). It's one of the more difficult sacrifices I had to make.



    To make this painfully long story a tiny bit shorter ....I'm going on my 8th year. I've got a good student base, and I've managed to keep my head above water and have survived. I source my own students, get a lot of referrals, do a bunch of online lessons and I keep on keepin' on. I work all the time it seems. I have to - but I love it.

    I still get the crazy YYZ Parents now and then, of course the Meatheads that only want a months worth of lessons so they can enter the Guitar Center Awesome Drummer Contest (True Story).

    But I set everyone's expectations from day one and have managed to retain my student base and survive through the worse economic times our country has seen since the great Depression.

    (I high five myself about it all the time........as I should dog gonnit!)




    But............Enough about me, forgive me for the long emotional story...understand that I think it's important that I qualify myself for the point I want to convey.



    Here it is:

    When I read these posts about these people doing lessons "on the side" for 15/20 bucks - I feel like they are ripping off more than one person. They are hurting the others that are in the area that are committed to teaching (Yes....like me). Whether it's a P/T teacher at a store, or another guy like me that's an established committed Teacher.

    But.. they are selfishly ripping off the people who are paying them for knowledge. Dare I say "Scamming" the STUDENT or THE PARENT.

    I could rant and rant and rant about it... (at least more than I already am).

    But....for anyone that is looking for a teacher, ask them this.

    WHAT IS YOUR LESSON PLAN FOR ME? HOW DO YOU PLAN ON IMPLEMENTING IT FOR ME ESPECIALLY? HOW HAS IT WORKED OR NOT WORKED FOR OTHERS? WHAT HAPPENS IF I DOESN'T WORK WELL FOR ME?

    If they trip over their words and give you a canned BS response, I'd imagine they haven't put very much thought into what they are doing. If that's the case....why the heck would you want them teaching you?


    But... if you are serious about getting lessons.......FIND A SERIOUS teacher, AND EXPECT to pay a little more for it. One who has been doing it for a while and has experience working with INDIVIDUAL students. Take the time to prospect. Do your homework and research. Ask music stores for referrals, ask the teacher for HIS own student referrals, LOOK ONLINE for referrals. (Make sure it's the right guy too!) leave no stone unturned!

    It's not easy to teach. The fact that someone is a good drummer HAS NOTHING to do with their ability to teach. It takes patience, good organizational skills, and most of all the ability to understand and communicate to the inner minds of an individual. All the knowledge and drumming ability in the world wont help the student if the instructor doesn't have his act together, doesn't communicate well, and doesn't care about a plan for the student.

    Last of all....RUN AWAY from anyone that advertises that they can teach you QUICKLY. As most of us know....much of what we do as drummer is a SLOW-COOKER process that takes a lot of time to develop. Repetitive practice, hours of this and that. Wood-shedding yourself with a pair of 5B's and a metronome.



    (sigh)

    Again....forgive me for the long winded rant/post, and most of all understand that this is in no way an infomercial post for me and my lessons. I'm booked up pretty solid as some who have contacted me here already know.....I don't need any business from here.


    (p.s. - I have no idea what ever ended up with the left over cigar box money! I guess that's good! )
    Last edited by EddieV; 01-13-2015 at 02:04 PM.
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  24. #24

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    Good post Eddie. Very interesting read, brother.

  25. #25

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    ....and let me be the first.

    "The problem with information on the Internet is that you can not validate it's authenticity. " -Abraham Lincoln

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