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Thread: Quality

  1. #1

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    Is it just me or is anyone else amazed at how low the bar is set for local bar bands to be able to get a gig? Checking out bands at local venues and looking at YouTube videos of bands in action just got me thinking, "Wow, they must have a lot of friends that drink a lot of booze". Sorry if that's critical, but, there has to be a threshold somewhere, right?

  2. #2

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    Its all about how much beer you can sell.

  3. #3

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    I notice a difference depending on the quality or reputation of the venue. Meaning...not all "bars" are created equal. Some of the struggling dive bars just want to advertise live music. They don't have a budget for bands so they book people willing to play for tips only. Thank the stars the guys I'm with won't play for free. Our band is run just like any profitable business.

    Tex

  4. #4

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    It is like anything else the big guys prey on the little guys to work for the cheapest as possible so they pocket more IMO

  5. #5

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    Cover or original bands? I've seen and played with a lot of really terrible original bands over the years at bars and every other kind of venue. In fact, I was in a few! Quality control isn't there on either end.

  6. #6

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    Quote Originally Posted by Texdrumr View Post
    I notice a difference depending on the quality or reputation of the venue. Meaning...not all "bars" are created equal. Some of the struggling dive bars just want to advertise live music. They don't have a budget for bands so they book people willing to play for tips only. Thank the stars the guys I'm with won't play for free. Our band is run just like any profitable business.

    Tex

    Your band is doing very well right now too if I'm not mistaken.....recognition wise.
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  7. #7

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    Quote Originally Posted by inthpktplayer View Post
    Is it just me or is anyone else amazed at how low the bar is set for local bar bands to be able to get a gig? Checking out bands at local venues and looking at YouTube videos of bands in action just got me thinking, "Wow, they must have a lot of friends that drink a lot of booze". Sorry if that's critical, but, there has to be a threshold somewhere, right?
    Hey bud, you been checking out my videos, have ya???

  8. #8

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    Here's my take:

    Establishments place too much importance on a band's "following", tending to ignore other factors such as:
    • The effect of bad or inappropriate music has on regular clientele


    • The subsequent effect on your establishment's overall reputation.
      Consistently good food, drinks, cleanliness, atmosphere, MUSIC, etc...


    • Selling a lot of booze on the night you have a college punk band that brings in a bunch of their friends is fine. Failing to realize that those customers will not be back next week, nor will the many of the other patrons who might have been chased out by the type and quality of the music, is at best SHORT SIGHTED


    • Most club owners are not music critics. Unfortunately, neither are most bar patrons. They accept low quality because they are used to seeing it.


    • Local musicians who don't go support other GOOD musicians are not being part of the solution. We lament the reality of the local scene, but aren't willing to make the effort to support what we purport to value.

  9. #9

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    ehhh I am more or less a hobbyist and have been listening to this argument as well as the cover band/original band dreary same ol argument for years now. Who cares? if the band is good or good enough they get gigs, if people show up they get more gigs, if not they eventually don't. Bar owners hire and run their business either successfully or they fail. Complaining and pretending that their is some kind of super secret squirrel code all musicians need to follow as far as listening to other bands they think are good or not serves no purpose.

    I have gigged with really good bands and a few not so good bands, all but one continues to get gig's. How I don't know but people show up, dance, drink and have a good time. Worrying about how other musicians perceive you is no fun at all and in my experience most of them are pretentious jackasses who you would not want to know otherwise so why bother.
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  10. #10

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    we've been ignoring a couple of bars because they definitely want to pay us peanuts and we try so hard to put on one hell of a show. We also don't do our sound and hiring sound/light guys are expensive. One guy charged us $300 to do sound and the bar was only willing to pay $450 for a live band.... meaning we'd only make $150 no thanks... split that between 5 guys... get real
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  11. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by MDK View Post
    ehhh I am more or less a hobbyist and have been listening to this argument as well as the cover band/original band dreary same ol argument for years now. Who cares? if the band is good or good enough they get gigs, if people show up they get more gigs, if not they eventually don't. Bar owners hire and run their business either successfully or they fail. Complaining and pretending that their is some kind of super secret squirrel code all musicians need to follow as far as listening to other bands they think are good or not serves no purpose.

    I have gigged with really good bands and a few not so good bands, all but one continues to get gig's. How I don't know but people show up, dance, drink and have a good time. Worrying about how other musicians perceive you is no fun at all and in my experience most of them are pretentious jackasses who you would not want to know otherwise so why bother.
    So then what's your answer to all the live music venues that continue to close their doors permanently? Because I don't think that and what you are saying are mutually exclusive.

  12. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by marko138 View Post
    So then what's your answer to all the live music venues that continue to close their doors permanently? Because I don't think that and what you are saying are mutually exclusive.
    Not sure there is an answer to it, I highly doubt it has anything to do with bad musicianship. I am not seeing clubs closing here, or doing away with live music but then again the bars and clubs I frequent are more for the 35+ crowd where people are not worried about a wifi connection.

    I do notice the clubs in the younger popular downtown areas drop out and spring up more often than BP gas stations but again I doubt it has anything to do with bad bands or music. Most of them have great wifi connections, big ole comfortable couches where everyone sits together and tweets. May just be a sign of the times.
    DW Collectors

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    Zildjian K Cymbals

    Decide whether this is love for the craft or simply an ego thing.

    http://www.redskymary.com/ NOT MY BAND, JUST A GREAT LOCAL BAND WHO SHOULD BE SOOO MUCH BIGGER IMO

    https://www.facebook.com/marcydriveband/ This is my band, please give a like.

  13. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by MDK View Post
    ehhh I am more or less a hobbyist and have been listening to this argument as well as the cover band/original band dreary same ol argument for years now. Who cares? if the band is good or good enough they get gigs, if people show up they get more gigs, if not they eventually don't. Bar owners hire and run their business either successfully or they fail. Complaining and pretending that their is some kind of super secret squirrel code all musicians need to follow as far as listening to other bands they think are good or not serves no purpose.

    I have gigged with really good bands and a few not so good bands, all but one continues to get gig's. How I don't know but people show up, dance, drink and have a good time. Worrying about how other musicians perceive you is no fun at all and in my experience most of them are pretentious jackasses who you would not want to know otherwise so why bother.
    Way to twist my words. All I said was if you complain about the scene but aren't willing to be an audience for others, then you are simply part of the problem, not part of the solution.

  14. #14

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    I have seen a ridiculous number of mediocre/bad bands out there and the majority of them are cover bands. These bands get gigs because they attract an audience and venues only really care about how many people you can bring. If you can draw an audience - more power to you.
    It's hard to play original tunes and play out regularly. It takes a lot of time and hard work to build up a following where people actually come to your gigs. It's a lot easier to play covers that everyone knows. Of course, there are great cover bands as well but few and far between. I'm not criticizing, just stating facts. If you can draw an audience - I tip my hat to you. Regardless of what I think of your band...it doesn't matter.

  15. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by xsabers View Post
    Way to twist my words. All I said was if you complain about the scene but aren't willing to be an audience for others, then you are simply part of the problem, not part of the solution.
    sorry I mistook your meaning. No ill will intended. I agree 100% with the above statement.
    DW Collectors

    Sonor Essential Force Birch

    Zildjian K Cymbals

    Decide whether this is love for the craft or simply an ego thing.

    http://www.redskymary.com/ NOT MY BAND, JUST A GREAT LOCAL BAND WHO SHOULD BE SOOO MUCH BIGGER IMO

    https://www.facebook.com/marcydriveband/ This is my band, please give a like.

  16. #16

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    I think "quality" is relative. The bars we play at are in small rural communities (Population anywhere from 150 people to 15,000 people). What qualifies as a "great" band here is probably mediocre at best for most of you guys. That said, I'm glad the local bars support local musicians, regardless of the talent level. We patronize their establishments, do occasional charity gigs to help the commit and do our best to support other local bands. It helps build the community. The biggest threat to live music for many of these small town bars is ASCAP and BMI. I hear many local bar owners say they would have live music more often if it wasn't for them. I'm not saying I'm against BMI or ASCAP, but if the bar owners are not willing to pay them, there's not much I can do. I've actually considered putting together a set list of public domain songs just for that reason.
    -Brian

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  17. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by Northern Redneck View Post
    Its all about how much beer you can sell.
    agreed, you could be a triangle player tinging away for 3 hours, if it's a packed crowd buying beer you'll get plenty of gigs.
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  18. #18

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    I never met a band that I didn't like.

  19. #19

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    Interesting commentary thus far. I posted this thought from a musician's POV and didn't really think it would take a turn towards the bar business perspective. The point that I was initially trying to make was that it looks to me that it clearly doesn't take much musical talent to enable bands to get work, but, I would hope that as musicians we'd take a good look at ourselves and what we produce and sometimes just say, "Man, this is just really not ready to come out of the basement just yet.".

  20. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by inthpktplayer View Post
    Interesting commentary thus far. I posted this thought from a musician's POV and didn't really think it would take a turn towards the bar business perspective. The point that I was initially trying to make was that it looks to me that it clearly doesn't take much musical talent to enable bands to get work, but, I would hope that as musicians we'd take a good look at ourselves and what we produce and sometimes just say, "Man, this is just really not ready to come out of the basement just yet.".
    AMEN! Just because you can get through a song without having a train wreck doesn't mean it's performance ready.

  21. #21

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    I don't think that the quality of music will increase in bars until the pay for musicians goes up. Decent, seasoned musicians won't leave their house for under a certain dollar amount. Couple that with the fact that kids are willing to play for nothing.

    I ran into this when I was doing the solo singer/songwriter thing. I mainly played coffee shops, and they pay NOTHING. You wanna know why? Because although I was in my mid-30's at the time with a family, I was competing with the kid down the street who would play for nothing. Rarely did I get paid.

    However, when I started playing hammered dulcimer, I got some really decent-paying gigs. Even my non-paying gigs would pay nice dividends in tips and CD sales. I stopped putting up with the whole "play for nothing" thing. I'm done with it. Here's the deal: When venues put up a decent amount for music, they will go out of their way to advertise.

    There's so much more that I could say, but I'm not going to.

  22. #22

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    Quote Originally Posted by 8beat View Post
    I never met a band that I didn't like.
    Funny, I find very few bands that I do like.

    Quote Originally Posted by inthpktplayer View Post
    Interesting commentary thus far. I posted this thought from a musician's POV and didn't really think it would take a turn towards the bar business perspective. The point that I was initially trying to make was that it looks to me that it clearly doesn't take much musical talent to enable bands to get work, but, I would hope that as musicians we'd take a good look at ourselves and what we produce and sometimes just say, "Man, this is just really not ready to come out of the basement just yet.".
    There it is. Very few have the ability to self-edit. Everything is GOLD.

  23. #23

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    Though in some cases the musicianship is still high, it's the quality of MUSIC that has taken a nose dive. IMO. Hardly go to bars around here. Let's face it...Live music in bars is becoming a paradighm (like getting service at service stations)

    all the best...
    Last edited by kay-gee; 03-19-2015 at 09:27 AM.

  24. #24

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    Well, my local market is flushed with high-quality cover bands. It's hard to compete when these types of acts are willing to play the same venue at the same rate as us. I mean, they aren't all THIS good, but this guys has 20 years under his belt as an entertainer. So how do you compete with this???



  25. #25

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    Quote Originally Posted by xsabers View Post
    Well, my local market is flushed with high-quality cover bands. It's hard to compete when these types of acts are willing to play the same venue at the same rate as us. I mean, they aren't all THIS good, but this guys has 20 years under his belt as an entertainer. So how do you compete with this???


    The guys is good.....but it's the energy that his wife adds that really puts them over the top, LOL.
    -Brian

    "Too many crappy used drum stuff to list"

    Play the SONG......not the DRUMS!!!

    "I think that feeling is a lot more important than technique. It's all very well doing a triple paradiddle - but who's going to know you've done it? If you play technically you sound like everybody else. It's being original that counts." ~ John Bonham

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