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Thread: Heads

  1. #1

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    Hi All,

    I know this topic has to have been addressed a million times already, but I must just be doing an awful job of searching for it. In any event, here are my questions.

    I am wondering how many folks play Remo clear Ambassador batter heads and Remo clear Diplomat resonance heads. Some of you may recall that I recently got a brand new DW cherry drum set a few months back, 10, 12, 14, 16 and 18 inch toms with a 22" bass. I have been very happy with the stock DW heads and had gotten them tuned just perfectly. Of course, never being happy with leaving well enough alone, and the idea of trying some heads that would be significantly more muffled, I tried a set of Evans EC2 over EC resonant heads. I was not pleased, and honestly, contrary to what I'd been led to believe about these types of heads, I was not able to get the toms to tune with those heads in place.

    So...I've decided to try a fully 'unmuffled' sound, given that the cherry shells have a deep fundamental, anyway. I am getting several sets of heads, figuring I'll try something similar to the stock heads (i.e., both the batter and reso being single ply). I'm getting a set of Remo clear Diplomats for the resonance side, and clear Ambassadors for the batter heads. I seem to find very few posts about people who play this combination. It seems that Emperors over clear Ambassadors are a pretty common combination (similar to the Evans clear G2 over G1 combo that I had on my old DW maple kit). Do any of you have experience with the Ambassadors over Diplomats? I'm also getting the 2 ply Emperors, too, so I'll have that as an option. I also will have the Evans option, G2 over G1 available.

    I'm sure that many of you will just suggest putting the stock heads back on, which I could. But I'm just really interested in exploring new sounds with my new drum set. I do have the option of putting coated Ambassador X batters on (with the exception of the 18" tom, which does not come in an 'X' version, so that is just a regular coated Ambassador).

    So what do you all think of the clear Ambassador over clear Diplomats? I'm kind of anxious to see what these will sound like on these cherry drums.
    Last edited by cabasner; 08-29-2015 at 11:55 PM.
    Now, just a tiny bit less than an absolute drum newbie
    DW Collectors Cherry kit, Ludwig Black Beauty Snare, DW SuperSolid Oak/Cherry Snare, DW Sabian Vault Edge Snare

  2. #2

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    EC2's over ECReso would probably be pretty dead compared to original. Have you tried EC2's over the stock DW reso's? Thinner reso heads give less sustain, so maybe also try the EC2's with the Ambassador (medium) weight DW heads as reso's. What about the stock DW batter heads with the ECReso's?

    FWIW- I have a new set of ECReso heads that I'm considering trying as batter heads over my stock PDP/Ambassador Reso heads. I'm Thinking it may be similar to the Aquarian Studio-X batter heads (Single ply with muffle ring).
    -Brian

    "Too many crappy used drum stuff to list"

    Play the SONG......not the DRUMS!!!

    "I think that feeling is a lot more important than technique. It's all very well doing a triple paradiddle - but who's going to know you've done it? If you play technically you sound like everybody else. It's being original that counts." ~ John Bonham

  3. #3

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    Quote Originally Posted by N2Bluz View Post
    EC2's over ECReso would probably be pretty dead compared to original. Have you tried EC2's over the stock DW reso's? Thinner reso heads give less sustain, so maybe also try the EC2's with the Ambassador (medium) weight DW heads as reso's. What about the stock DW batter heads with the ECReso's?

    FWIW- I have a new set of ECReso heads that I'm considering trying as batter heads over my stock PDP/Ambassador Reso heads. I'm Thinking it may be similar to the Aquarian Studio-X batter heads (Single ply with muffle ring).
    Bluz,

    Thanks for the consideration on combinations. I got kind of fed up when I couldn't get things tuned up, so I just stopped and set the drums aside. I'll get back to them here soon, and I may try some of the combinations you suggested. As I wrote, I'm really just interested in trying things to see what appeals to my ears. I do have a set of Aquarian 'tone rings', the clear plastic 'donuts' that really cut down on resonance, but they REALLY kill any after tone, too much even for my taste. While I'm waiting for the Remo heads to arrive, I may try what you suggested. Thanks again!

    However, I'm still interested in hearing from anyone with the Ambassadors over Diplomats.

    P.S. I do have the stock DW batter over the EC reso on my 18" tom tom, currently. I actually kind of like that sound, and maybe the tuning issue will resolve itself with the 1 ply batter heads. Will think about that... I am finding that changing heads on 5 tom toms with the new DW True Pitch 50 tension rods (which I had installed on all the tom toms on the new kit) makes for a VERY long removal and re-install on the rims!
    Last edited by cabasner; 08-24-2015 at 09:58 PM.
    Now, just a tiny bit less than an absolute drum newbie
    DW Collectors Cherry kit, Ludwig Black Beauty Snare, DW SuperSolid Oak/Cherry Snare, DW Sabian Vault Edge Snare

  4. #4

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    Not exactly what you are looking for, but it might help anyway. I have used Remo Clear Ambassadors for various smaller toms in the past and know other people who do as well. If you like mid to higher tunings they sound very nice as batters, especially for jazz and similar styles. If you want the lowest sound possible without killing sustain, Vintage Emperors, either clear or coated, will give you that. I do use coated Ambassador over Diplomat snare side on my 12"x5.5" Yamaha snare and it's perfect. But I guess you are happy with your snare sound already if you are only wanting to replace tom heads?

  5. #5

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    Thanks pcs. I hadn't been aware of the attributes of the vintage versions of the Remo heads. And to answer your question, I am satisfied with my snare tone, with the stock heads on my DW Sabian Vault Edge snare. I'm only looking for variations on toms. I'm actually fine with the bass drum, too (fully stock Remo heads there, too).
    Now, just a tiny bit less than an absolute drum newbie
    DW Collectors Cherry kit, Ludwig Black Beauty Snare, DW SuperSolid Oak/Cherry Snare, DW Sabian Vault Edge Snare

  6. #6

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    Your choice will sound very good.................especially if you like the pitch up a bit.
    Your selection is not quite durable enough for me but for a player that is somewhat moderate to gentle, these heads are perfect.
    Gretsch USA & Zildjian
    (What Else Would I Ever Need ?)


  7. #7

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    the ambs over dips should let the toms really sing well. The ideal combination really. The pinstripes might not be what you want. Aquarian also makes a classic clear that is ideal for a reso and maybe slap a Resonse II on top of that. Just also wanted to mention maybe taking your drums to a different location in the house and see what they sound like. I had that with my 18 floor. Played in a diffenrt room and it was thunderous. Saved me some coin. I was going to replace it
    RDM/Damage Poets
    UFiP TAMAHA Zildjian
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    AQUARIAN

  8. #8

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    Quote Originally Posted by ricardo View Post
    your choice will sound very good.................especially if you like the pitch up a bit.
    Your selection is not quite durable enough for me but for a player that is somewhat moderate to gentle, these heads are perfect.
    +1
    Proudly playing:
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    A bunch of snares
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    I think I love to play the drums simply because you get to hit 'em!!!

  9. #9

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    Thanks, guys. By the way, just so I'm clear, I LOVE my drum set. I didn't need to change a thing, actually, it was perfect as it was. But since the drums are so fabulous, I just wanted to try something a little different, just to see what they can sound like with different heads. I wasn't happy with the EC2 over EC combo, not necessarily the sound, but just that I, personally, couldn't get them to tune right. The stock DW heads, despite having a bit of damping on the batter heads (small bit of coating around the perimeter), didn't really do much of an overtone removal; I wanted to try a muffled head. But since I couldn't get them to tune (I stink at tuning), I decided I'll go the other way completely, and go for the fully open, singing heads. I'm looking forward to seeing what a completely, utterly open sound, with the deeper fundamental of cherry wood, will sound like. Can't wait for the new heads to arrive (my shop had to order some) so not sure when they will show up.
    Now, just a tiny bit less than an absolute drum newbie
    DW Collectors Cherry kit, Ludwig Black Beauty Snare, DW SuperSolid Oak/Cherry Snare, DW Sabian Vault Edge Snare

  10. #10

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    If you are not very good at tuning I would think a completely unmuffled head would be harder to deal with just because there would be more overtones. Then again, that will also let you practice a lot and it will be easy to hear when something is out of tune.

  11. #11

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    I have tried diplomats in the past and IMO they have always been to bright and had a little too much sustain for my taste but then again I never tried them on a killer DW cherry kit either.

    I have always liked coated amb. over clear amb (currently on my Sonor Beech) or clear. emp. over clear amb. for a little more low end and for times I feel I need a change.

    Snares are a whole different ball game though.
    Ludwig Classic Maple 22x16,10x8,12x9,16x16
    7" Moon Gel Practice Pad
    Sabian HHX Legacy

    Decide whether this is love for the craft or simply an ego thing

    http://www.redskymary.com/ NOT MY BAND, JUST A GREAT LOCAL BAND WHO SHOULD BE SOOO MUCH BIGGER IMO

  12. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by pcs90 View Post
    If you are not very good at tuning I would think a completely unmuffled head would be harder to deal with just because there would be more overtones. Then again, that will also let you practice a lot and it will be easy to hear when something is out of tune.
    You may be right and I did think of that. However, I found the stock heads, which are reasonably 'open', were not that hard to tune, for whatever reason. I guess I'll find out when I try the new heads.
    Now, just a tiny bit less than an absolute drum newbie
    DW Collectors Cherry kit, Ludwig Black Beauty Snare, DW SuperSolid Oak/Cherry Snare, DW Sabian Vault Edge Snare

  13. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by cabasner View Post
    I wasn't happy with the EC2 over EC combo, not necessarily the sound, but just that I, personally, couldn't get them to tune right. The stock DW heads, despite having a bit of damping on the batter heads (small bit of coating around the perimeter), didn't really do much of an overtone removal; I wanted to try a muffled head.

    You also might try a set of Zero-Rings as an option once you find heads you like..............the rings can calm things down a bit.
    If you don't like them, you can remove them in seconds.
    Gretsch USA & Zildjian
    (What Else Would I Ever Need ?)


  14. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ricardo View Post
    You also might try a set of Zero-Rings as an option once you find heads you like..............the rings can calm things down a bit.
    If you don't like them, you can remove them in seconds.
    Ricardo, I have rings for all my tom toms 10-18. I actually like them, though they tend to be TOO deadening, which is why I wanted to try heads that might have a similar, but more focused ( i.e. less broad) reduction in ring (no pun intended). But thanks for the thought!
    Last edited by cabasner; 08-26-2015 at 09:24 AM.
    Now, just a tiny bit less than an absolute drum newbie
    DW Collectors Cherry kit, Ludwig Black Beauty Snare, DW SuperSolid Oak/Cherry Snare, DW Sabian Vault Edge Snare

  15. #15

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    Just got my heads in the mail today. Started putting them on, will finish tomorrow. I'm starting with Remo Diplomats on the reso side and Ambassadors on the batters on 5 toms. I figure that I liked the DW stock heads well enough (and they are basically Remo single ply heads, but with a little built-in dampening) but want to see what the drums will sound like with 'full ring' and no damping at all. The Ambassador/Diplomat combo will be as undamped as it gets. I've get a set of double ply Emperors, too, in case this combo has issues, which will be a lot like the Evans G2 over G1 combo I've used in the past. I must say, however, as a primarily Evans guy up until now, the Remo technology, or lack thereof, makes their heads a lot less 'perfect fit' than the Evans 360, which seems to fit perfectly on the bearing edges, first time, every time. The Remos...not so much. They seem way low tech, to me. We'll see how they sound tomorrow.
    Last edited by cabasner; 09-19-2015 at 03:52 PM.
    Now, just a tiny bit less than an absolute drum newbie
    DW Collectors Cherry kit, Ludwig Black Beauty Snare, DW SuperSolid Oak/Cherry Snare, DW Sabian Vault Edge Snare

  16. #16

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    Hi cabasner. I was wondering what you and your new drums were up to lately. I'm still using the stock heads on my maples. They tune very easily. The hardest part is getting key access to all the rods while they're set up.
    I've always wanted to experiment with some other tom head combos as well. I don't want to buy 30 to 40 heads to try. I've considered trying coated single ply batters over single ply resos and maybe some two ply coated batters.
    Someday.
    I think the coated heads will dampen the sustain a hair and the two ply coated even more. Don't know if I'd like the feel of the two plies but back in the 60's if I recall most of the heads I used were two ply.
    Try for even tension via finger tight then even numbers of turns on opposing lugs then balancing pitch all around.
    I look forward to hearing your impressions.

  17. #17

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    Ambos over Dips will sound great.
    You have to play them with moderate force.
    Gretsch USA & Zildjian
    (What Else Would I Ever Need ?)


  18. #18

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    Don't be afraid to try different tuning techniques either. The bigger difference in tension between the top and bottom heads, the less sustain it will have. I prefer the Reso head looser than the batter on some of my kits, but tighter than the batters on others. Even though I find tuning very frustrating, the more I do it, the better I get at it.
    -Brian

    "Too many crappy used drum stuff to list"

    Play the SONG......not the DRUMS!!!

    "I think that feeling is a lot more important than technique. It's all very well doing a triple paradiddle - but who's going to know you've done it? If you play technically you sound like everybody else. It's being original that counts." ~ John Bonham

  19. #19

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    Of course it is always subjective to personal preference but your statement on head technology is pretty close. I find remo's to look low tech compared to evans but IMO they sound a little better and I have never noticed them to fit any worse than the evans but admittedly I do not have a lot of experience with the 360's.
    Ludwig Classic Maple 22x16,10x8,12x9,16x16
    7" Moon Gel Practice Pad
    Sabian HHX Legacy

    Decide whether this is love for the craft or simply an ego thing

    http://www.redskymary.com/ NOT MY BAND, JUST A GREAT LOCAL BAND WHO SHOULD BE SOOO MUCH BIGGER IMO

  20. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by N2Bluz View Post
    The bigger difference in tension between the top and bottom heads, the less sustain it will have. I prefer the Reso head looser than the batter on some of my kits, but tighter than the batters on others.
    Very true..................My shells sound best with looser batters and tighter resos..............and the benefit of less sustain.

    I recently spent a bit more money on Aquarian Super II with Studio X rings for batters on my three toms.............they are nice heads but they fit very tight and they did not produce all of the added benefit I was looking for........some, but not all.
    Therefore, after the new Aquarian heads wear out, I will re-install my (almost new) clear Emporers.
    Gretsch USA & Zildjian
    (What Else Would I Ever Need ?)


  21. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by cabasner View Post
    Thanks, guys. By the way, just so I'm clear, I LOVE my drum set. I didn't need to change a thing, actually, it was perfect as it was. But since the drums are so fabulous, I just wanted to try something a little different, just to see what they can sound like with different heads. I wasn't happy with the EC2 over EC combo, not necessarily the sound, but just that I, personally, couldn't get them to tune right. The stock DW heads, despite having a bit of damping on the batter heads (small bit of coating around the perimeter), didn't really do much of an overtone removal; I wanted to try a muffled head. But since I couldn't get them to tune (I stink at tuning), I decided I'll go the other way completely, and go for the fully open, singing heads. I'm looking forward to seeing what a completely, utterly open sound, with the deeper fundamental of cherry wood, will sound like. Can't wait for the new heads to arrive (my shop had to order some) so not sure when they will show up.
    I used to run EC2 clears over genera clear resonant (not G1's, this is a diplomat weight head) on my old Pro M kit. Maybe not the most conventional, but they sounded good.
    Mmm... Saturns.

  22. #22

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ricardo View Post
    Very true..................My shells sound best with looser batters and tighter resos..............and the benefit of less sustain.

    I recently spent a bit more money on Aquarian Super II with Studio X rings for batters on my three toms.............they are nice heads but they fit very tight and they did not produce all of the added benefit I was looking for........some, but not all.
    Therefore, after the new Aquarian heads wear out, I will re-install my (almost new) clear Emporers.
    I spent all afternoon installing/tuning Super II coated heads (no SX rings) on my new PDP Maples. I tried every tension and combination to try and get a good sound. The EC Reso/Super II batter combo just sounded dead, no matter what I tried. The stock PDP reso's sounded much better with Super II batters. I finally found a tuning that sounds "Good", but doesn't do the PDP shells justice, IMO. No tuning range and always has a funny "aftertaste" to the resonance. Maybe it's due to the different mil thicknesses of the plies? Heck, my old Maxwin kit with coated Emps over clear Emps sounds better than the PDP maples right now. I just am not impressed with the coated Super II's. I'm going back to coated Emps when they wear out. I think I've finally decided...I'm a "REMO Guy".
    -Brian

    "Too many crappy used drum stuff to list"

    Play the SONG......not the DRUMS!!!

    "I think that feeling is a lot more important than technique. It's all very well doing a triple paradiddle - but who's going to know you've done it? If you play technically you sound like everybody else. It's being original that counts." ~ John Bonham

  23. #23

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    Remo guy................I understand.
    I do like the coated Super II on my snare.
    I also like the SK10 on my bass (batter).
    I'm going back to clear Emps over clear Ambos on my toms.
    Gretsch USA & Zildjian
    (What Else Would I Ever Need ?)


  24. #24

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    Well, I've finished my install of the clear Ambassadors over clear Diplomats. All but on the 10" tom; the Diplomat is still on the way, so I left the new EC2 Reso on with the Amb batter. It is interesting. I stand by my opinion that these heads are significantly low tech compared to the Evans 360, which even 'look' higher tech. In any event, to the sound. They definitely 'ring'. I have gotten them almost back to the tuning that the stock DW heads were at, but not quite. They seem to be just a bit 'off', something like just just slightly 'off note', particularly during in the after-tones. I'm sure that it will take some playing around with the reso/batter balance to sort this out. I can't tell you how frustrating it is to have had almost 'perfect' tuning with the stock heads, yet I felt the need to mess around. I'm very unhappy with myself in that regard. However, I know that I probably would not have stayed with OEM heads in the long run, so wanted to find heads that I'll use for the future. As I wrote earlier, I have a set of Emperors for the batters, if I want to go that route, and a full set of Evans clear G2s over clear G1s that had worked well on the maple DW. I actually kind of like the sound of the 10" tom, which has the clear Ambassador over Evans EC Reso...definitely a tonal difference between the other toms, a lot less sustain, very different from the rest. I was going to put an old Evans G1 reso on that tom, but didn't want to do the work. It's a huge effort to change heads with the True Pitch 50 large thread count tuners.
    Now, just a tiny bit less than an absolute drum newbie
    DW Collectors Cherry kit, Ludwig Black Beauty Snare, DW SuperSolid Oak/Cherry Snare, DW Sabian Vault Edge Snare

  25. #25

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    Quote Originally Posted by cabasner View Post
    I was going to put an old Evans G1 reso on that tom, but didn't want to do the work. It's a huge effort to change heads with the True Pitch 50 large thread count tuners.
    I cut off a drum key so I could put it in my cordless drill---makes head changes much faster!

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