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Thread: Ludwig Epic -- Wrong Market Position ?

  1. #1

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    Default Ludwig Epic -- Wrong Market Position ?

    Seems that as soon as the Ludwig Epic line of shells appeared and received some good reviews, they were discontinued.

    What happened ? Did Ludwig make them too good (meaning, too costly) to compete in the mid-level market ?
    Gretsch USA & Zildjian
    (What Else Would I Ever Need ?)


  2. #2

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    Default Re: Ludwig Epic -- Wrong Market Position ?

    The Ludwig Element Birch was a cracker kit for the price too. Discontinued.

    Acoustic & Electronic:
    Pearl Prestige World Series WLX 1988
    Tama Swingstar 1983
    Tama Superstar Hyper-Drive (Birch) 2007
    Ludwig Acrolite Snare 1976
    Ludwig Supraphonic 6.5x14" 2021
    Pearl Sensitone Elite Aluminum 5.5" and 6.5" Snare
    Pearl COB Custom Deluxe [Gladstone] (75-76) Snare
    Love Drum Co. Hammered Steel 5.5" Snare
    Roland TD-1KV

    Paiste
    Accent 8"

    Paiste Signature:
    6", 10" Splash
    14" Dark Crisp Hi-Hats
    14" Sound Edge Hi-Hats
    16", 17", 18",19", 20" Full Crash
    22" Symphonic Med-Heavy (use as a Ride)

    Paiste Formula 602:
    22" Formula 602 Modern Essentials Ride

    Paiste 2oo2:
    22" Ride
    16" Crash
    8",10" Splash

    Paiste 2oo2 Big Beat:
    15" Hi-Hats
    19", 20", 21" Big Beat Multifunctional

    Paiste Sound Formula:
    16" Crash
    20" Full Ride (Frankenstein)

    Paiste Twenty:
    16" China

    Paiste Alpha (original Swiss made):
    12" Splash

    Paiste PST7:
    Medium
    16", 18" Crash
    20" Ride
    14" Hi-Hats

    Sabian:
    XS20 18" China
    AA 14" Fusion Hi-Hats


  3. #3

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    Default Re: Ludwig Epic -- Wrong Market Position ?

    what was the make-up of the shells?

    Chances are they'll return under another name and cost more.

    all the best...

  4. #4

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    Default Re: Ludwig Epic -- Wrong Market Position ?

    Quote Originally Posted by kay-gee View Post
    what was the make-up of the shells?

    Chances are they'll return under another name and cost more.

    all the best...
    All their entry to mid ranges are all poplar.

    As I said the Birch Element was a cracker for the money.

    Acoustic & Electronic:
    Pearl Prestige World Series WLX 1988
    Tama Swingstar 1983
    Tama Superstar Hyper-Drive (Birch) 2007
    Ludwig Acrolite Snare 1976
    Ludwig Supraphonic 6.5x14" 2021
    Pearl Sensitone Elite Aluminum 5.5" and 6.5" Snare
    Pearl COB Custom Deluxe [Gladstone] (75-76) Snare
    Love Drum Co. Hammered Steel 5.5" Snare
    Roland TD-1KV

    Paiste
    Accent 8"

    Paiste Signature:
    6", 10" Splash
    14" Dark Crisp Hi-Hats
    14" Sound Edge Hi-Hats
    16", 17", 18",19", 20" Full Crash
    22" Symphonic Med-Heavy (use as a Ride)

    Paiste Formula 602:
    22" Formula 602 Modern Essentials Ride

    Paiste 2oo2:
    22" Ride
    16" Crash
    8",10" Splash

    Paiste 2oo2 Big Beat:
    15" Hi-Hats
    19", 20", 21" Big Beat Multifunctional

    Paiste Sound Formula:
    16" Crash
    20" Full Ride (Frankenstein)

    Paiste Twenty:
    16" China

    Paiste Alpha (original Swiss made):
    12" Splash

    Paiste PST7:
    Medium
    16", 18" Crash
    20" Ride
    14" Hi-Hats

    Sabian:
    XS20 18" China
    AA 14" Fusion Hi-Hats


  5. #5

    User Info Menu

    Default Re: Ludwig Epic -- Wrong Market Position ?

    Quote Originally Posted by kay-gee View Post
    what was the make-up of the shells?

    Chances are they'll return under another name and cost more.

    all the best...
    Quote Originally Posted by EyePea View Post
    All their entry to mid ranges are all poplar.
    Ludwig Epic were a unique blend of two plies of birch over two plies of maple over two plies of birch. Together with smoke-chrome rims and keystone mini-lugs, I thought they looked very classy with the right finishes.

    Below is a natural birch gloss finish with the cool hardware:

    Gretsch USA & Zildjian
    (What Else Would I Ever Need ?)


  6. #6

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    Default Re: Ludwig Epic -- Wrong Market Position ?

    Nice looking tom there...I have an Epic birch 20 ply snare ...its a great snare, cheap too

    https://www.flickr.com/photos/russel...posted-public/
    Last edited by funkyruss; 07-13-2016 at 10:14 AM.

  7. #7

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    Default Re: Ludwig Epic -- Wrong Market Position ?

    The Brick !

    Those are great snare drums for the money.
    Gretsch USA & Zildjian
    (What Else Would I Ever Need ?)


  8. #8

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    Default Re: Ludwig Epic -- Wrong Market Position ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ricardo View Post
    The Brick !

    Those are great snare drums for the money.
    Yup, the Brick, picked that up in Montreal for $235 Cad, which I think was a pretty good price...thickest darned snare I own, but I only have ....5

  9. #9

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    Default Re: Ludwig Epic -- Wrong Market Position ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ricardo View Post
    Seems that as soon as the Ludwig Epic line of shells appeared and received some good reviews, they were discontinued.

    What happened ? Did Ludwig make them too good (meaning, too costly) to compete in the mid-level market ?
    Hard to believe for a company with such a history. Pretty sure you should know the cost to you when you set your price if not that is pretty embarrassing. I learned that in Junior Achievement. I almost bought one when they 1st came out just on looks alone but when I played a buddy's I was not blown away and neither was he. He sold it soon after buying it.
    Ludwig Classic Maple 22x16,10x8,12x9,16x16
    7" Moon Gel Practice Pad
    Sabian HHX Legacy

    Decide whether this is love for the craft or simply an ego thing

    http://www.redskymary.com/ NOT MY BAND, JUST A GREAT LOCAL BAND WHO SHOULD BE SOOO MUCH BIGGER IMO

  10. #10

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    Default Re: Ludwig Epic -- Wrong Market Position ?

    Quote Originally Posted by EyePea View Post
    All their entry to mid ranges are all poplar.
    I meant to emphasise that CURRENTLY, ALL their entry-mids are Poplar.

    Acoustic & Electronic:
    Pearl Prestige World Series WLX 1988
    Tama Swingstar 1983
    Tama Superstar Hyper-Drive (Birch) 2007
    Ludwig Acrolite Snare 1976
    Ludwig Supraphonic 6.5x14" 2021
    Pearl Sensitone Elite Aluminum 5.5" and 6.5" Snare
    Pearl COB Custom Deluxe [Gladstone] (75-76) Snare
    Love Drum Co. Hammered Steel 5.5" Snare
    Roland TD-1KV

    Paiste
    Accent 8"

    Paiste Signature:
    6", 10" Splash
    14" Dark Crisp Hi-Hats
    14" Sound Edge Hi-Hats
    16", 17", 18",19", 20" Full Crash
    22" Symphonic Med-Heavy (use as a Ride)

    Paiste Formula 602:
    22" Formula 602 Modern Essentials Ride

    Paiste 2oo2:
    22" Ride
    16" Crash
    8",10" Splash

    Paiste 2oo2 Big Beat:
    15" Hi-Hats
    19", 20", 21" Big Beat Multifunctional

    Paiste Sound Formula:
    16" Crash
    20" Full Ride (Frankenstein)

    Paiste Twenty:
    16" China

    Paiste Alpha (original Swiss made):
    12" Splash

    Paiste PST7:
    Medium
    16", 18" Crash
    20" Ride
    14" Hi-Hats

    Sabian:
    XS20 18" China
    AA 14" Fusion Hi-Hats


  11. #11

    User Info Menu

    Default Re: Ludwig Epic -- Wrong Market Position ?

    Quote Originally Posted by MDK View Post
    I almost bought one when they 1st came out just on looks alone but when I played a buddy's I was not blown away.
    I bought the set (among many potential choices) because they looked great, they had the interesting birch/maple blend, and I got the exact sizes I wanted for the right price.
    This included seven pieces.............2-up, 2-down, matching snare and two bass drums.

    These drums sound good but are a bit too loud and a bit too sharp for my tastes (I think it is the birch).............I went back to my old Gretsch USA shells and gig with those.
    I bought a double Speed Cobra and modified it to my particular needs and now I think it is better than having two bass drums...........and a lot less hassle.

    Here is the full Epic kit:




    Gretsch USA & Zildjian
    (What Else Would I Ever Need ?)


  12. #12

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    Default Re: Ludwig Epic -- Wrong Market Position ?

    Lookin really nice. Couldn't they be broken up and sold as two 3 pc sets?

    For example bass, smaller of the rack and floor..and..bass, larger of the rack and floor?

    Obviously the snare with one set for more $$ if wanted.

    all the best...

  13. #13

    User Info Menu

    Default Re: Ludwig Epic -- Wrong Market Position ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ricardo View Post
    I bought the set (among many potential choices) because they looked great, they had the interesting birch/maple blend, and I got the exact sizes I wanted for the right price.
    This included seven pieces.............2-up, 2-down, matching snare and two bass drums.

    These drums sound good but are a bit too loud and a bit too sharp for my tastes (I think it is the birch).............I went back to my old Gretsch USA shells and gig with those.
    I bought a double Speed Cobra and modified it to my particular needs and now I think it is better than having two bass drums...........and a lot less hassle.

    Here is the full Epic kit:





    That's a beautiful kit! I love the natural birch finish with the darker hardware.
    Aut Viam Inveniam Aut Faciam
    "I shall either find a way or make one"

  14. #14

    User Info Menu

    Default Re: Ludwig Epic -- Wrong Market Position ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Powertrip240 View Post
    That's a beautiful kit! I love the natural birch finish with the darker hardware.
    Thank you, I agree.
    When you decide you just gotta have a DB kit, PM me.
    Coated Emps over clear Ambos.............clear PS4 batter on basses.
    Gretsch USA & Zildjian
    (What Else Would I Ever Need ?)


  15. #15

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    Default Re: Ludwig Epic -- Wrong Market Position ?

    Makes me wish I picked up that epic snare from my store when we had it... now that it's discontinued.

  16. #16

    User Info Menu

    Default Re: Ludwig Epic -- Wrong Market Position ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ricardo View Post
    Seems that as soon as the Ludwig Epic line of shells appeared and received some good reviews, they were discontinued.

    What happened ? Did Ludwig make them too good (meaning, too costly) to compete in the mid-level market ?
    I honestly think it was just timing. Ludwig has jumped around a lot with drum lines in the last 10 years or so, and it seems only the tried and true lines(Classic Maple, Club Date, Vistalite) have held fast. They have the Keystone X now, but that's not the same as the Keystone.
    Jesse

    1986 Tama Crestar - Lacquered Piano White
    2016 Roland TD-25K
    2015 Tama Starclassic B/B - Indigo Blue Sparkle

  17. #17

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    Default Re: Ludwig Epic -- Wrong Market Position ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ricardo View Post
    Thank you, I agree.
    When you decide you just gotta have a DB kit, PM me.
    Coated Emps over clear Ambos.............clear PS4 batter on basses.
    If I had the space, the money and the wife's blessing, I'd jump on it in a heartbeat!
    Aut Viam Inveniam Aut Faciam
    "I shall either find a way or make one"

  18. #18

    User Info Menu

    Default Re: Ludwig Epic -- Wrong Market Position ?

    I wouldn't mind a Keystone X however.
    U.S made. Maple and Oak.
    Last edited by EyePea; 07-14-2016 at 11:08 PM.

    Acoustic & Electronic:
    Pearl Prestige World Series WLX 1988
    Tama Swingstar 1983
    Tama Superstar Hyper-Drive (Birch) 2007
    Ludwig Acrolite Snare 1976
    Ludwig Supraphonic 6.5x14" 2021
    Pearl Sensitone Elite Aluminum 5.5" and 6.5" Snare
    Pearl COB Custom Deluxe [Gladstone] (75-76) Snare
    Love Drum Co. Hammered Steel 5.5" Snare
    Roland TD-1KV

    Paiste
    Accent 8"

    Paiste Signature:
    6", 10" Splash
    14" Dark Crisp Hi-Hats
    14" Sound Edge Hi-Hats
    16", 17", 18",19", 20" Full Crash
    22" Symphonic Med-Heavy (use as a Ride)

    Paiste Formula 602:
    22" Formula 602 Modern Essentials Ride

    Paiste 2oo2:
    22" Ride
    16" Crash
    8",10" Splash

    Paiste 2oo2 Big Beat:
    15" Hi-Hats
    19", 20", 21" Big Beat Multifunctional

    Paiste Sound Formula:
    16" Crash
    20" Full Ride (Frankenstein)

    Paiste Twenty:
    16" China

    Paiste Alpha (original Swiss made):
    12" Splash

    Paiste PST7:
    Medium
    16", 18" Crash
    20" Ride
    14" Hi-Hats

    Sabian:
    XS20 18" China
    AA 14" Fusion Hi-Hats


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