Who's in charge of the drum mix?

[late8]

I've been working with a singer/songwriter for the past four years on his original music in his home studio and as of today, we have recorded 72 songs. The majority of the music has been a collaboration between the two of us and I've practically brought in every kit I own during those years to keep things fresh.

I've written lyrics, worked the arrangements and have sung back-up on a few songs so I feel very vested in this collaboration and our relationship as friends and as musicians has grown and there's mutual respect for the skill sets we both bring to the table.

With that said, I'm starting to really take charge of the drum mix. We use seven channels for the kit. My mixing skills have improved with the advice from many here on DC so I'm reaching out again for more of your wisdom.

I want to continue taking charge of the drum mix but who should have final say?

I feel it should be me but I need to keep things positive and very diplomatic. How would you approach this? Your thoughts?

[SpazApproved]

In my opinion, it's my playing, my kit and I won't be happy until I have the final say in the sound. Even if someone else is mixing I still want it to sound best to me.

[late8]

In my opinion, it's my playing, my kit and I won't be happy until I have the final say in the sound. Even if someone else is mixing I still want it to sound best to me.

Thank you Zack! I hold the same opinion. The first 16 songs we recorded have been submitted and approved for copyright protection and it's a 50/50 copyright deal between the both of us.

[Ricardo]

Except for only one time, and in the context of the sound of the drums, I have been in control of every recording I've ever been involved with.................in most of those mixes, I never laid a hand on the board...........I simply instructed the engineer until we got the desired sound.

Fortunately, many times we were working at a studio that is owned and operated by a former drummer.............as you can imagine, that helped a lot.

The one time I was not in control was a really weird recording that a guy was making and I was recruited to lay down the drum tracks............the guy that was the writer/producer got the drum sound the way he wanted and it wasn't bad................I just didn't contribute other than playing the studio kit.

[late8]

Except for only one time, and in the context of the sound of the drums, I have been in control of every recording I've ever been involved with.................in most of those mixes, I never laid a hand on the board...........I simply instructed the engineer until we got the desired sound.

Fortunately, many times we were working at a studio that is owned and operated by a former drummer.............as you can imagine, that helped a lot.

The one time I was not in control was a really weird recording that a guy was making and I was recruited to lay down the drum tracks............the guy that was the writer/producer got the drum sound the way he wanted and it wasn't bad................I just didn't contribute other than playing the studio kit.

Thanks for your input Ricky! I've no experience in a professional recording environment so I don't know how the drum tracks are handled but the more I work with my friend, the more I feel I need to be in control of the shaping of the sound of the kit. I need to hear the kick and it's being buried in the mix.

The control room is small and there is a subwoofer below the recording deck and I'm suspecting it's misleading the sound of the low frequencies. I know some control rooms use the Yamaha NS10 as a standard for mixing due to its flat response so I suggested that we use a similar set up and it's helped us to shape the low end, especially the kick.

[N2Bluz]

I guess I'd say it depends on the relationship. If it's someone else's song, studio, equipment, etc., I'd say it's their call on the mix they want. In your case, as 50% of the project, I'd say it depends on whatever you and your co-producer can agree upon. I agree that as the drummer, the ball is in your court. But, the drums are only a part of the finished product, so their mix control is subject to control of the entire project.

However... I've never been in that position and never will. I'm sure I'd want complete control if I was.

[dangermoney]

When I record with other musician friends and/or songwriters on their projects, I am usually involved in the final say but I also want to collaborate with them to arrive at a drum sound that everyone is happy with. The only time that I really object is when the drum tracks are covered up in the mix or the mix just outright sucks.

Years ago, when I was recording professionally, it was usually the engineer and/or producer who had final say. I would lay down the drum tracks and have a say in what I played but I wasn't typically involved in the final mixing. If I didn't like what they ended up with, I had to learn to live with it.

It seems like you and your friend have a good relationship. If he is not as familiar with mixing drums as you are, then I say that you should have more say in the finished product. But he may also have some good ideas too. I think that the more you two work together and learn from each other, the more you will begin to click together as a team and that is when it really gets productive and fun.

It was a learning experience for me for sure. I learned that there are so many ways to manipulate drum sound in the studio and what sounded good for one song might not for another. For me, that was the real challenge ... figuring out which drum mix complimented the song the best ...

[N2Bluz]

I think just being involved in a recording project would be great. Someday I hope to experience it. Right now, "mixing drums" for me means "how many pieces of Moongel would you like?".

[Ricardo]

[B]Thanks for your input Ricky! I've no experience in a professional recording environment so I don't know how the drum tracks are handled but the more I work with my friend, the more I feel I need to be in control of the shaping of the sound of the kit. I need to hear the kick and it's being buried in the mix.

Blasphemy !!!

I love the bass drum to be out front.
I love to hear the drummer's footwork.
I confess I'm biased.
And one more thing................
I'm talking about a good bass drum sound -- no trigger and minimal outboard supplement.

[inthpktplayer]

Certainly the drummer should have the ability to determine the final mix of the drums. It should be also done within the context of the entire project. It's called collaboration.

[late8]

I guess I'd say it depends on the relationship. If it's someone else's song, studio, equipment, etc., I'd say it's their call on the mix they want. In your case, as 50% of the project, I'd say it depends on whatever you and your co-producer can agree upon. I agree that as the drummer, the ball is in your court. But, the drums are only a part of the finished product, so their mix control is subject to control of the entire project.

However... I've never been in that position and never will. I'm sure I'd want complete control if I was.

Thank you Brian. I totally agree with this statement.

"But, the drums are only a part of the finished product, so their mix control is subject to control of the entire project."

You're spot on with this and I appreciate the advice.

When I record with other musician friends and/or songwriters on their projects, I am usually involved in the final say but I also want to collaborate with them to arrive at a drum sound that everyone is happy with. The only time that I really object is when the drum tracks are covered up in the mix or the mix just outright sucks.

Years ago, when I was recording professionally, it was usually the engineer and/or producer who had final say. I would lay down the drum tracks and have a say in what I played but I wasn't typically involved in the final mixing. If I didn't like what they ended up with, I had to learn to live with it.

It seems like you and your friend have a good relationship. If he is not as familiar with mixing drums as you are, then I say that you should have more say in the finished product. But he may also have some good ideas too. I think that the more you two work together and learn from each other, the more you will begin to click together as a team and that is when it really gets productive and fun.

It was a learning experience for me for sure. I learned that there are so many ways to manipulate drum sound in the studio and what sounded good for one song might not for another. For me, that was the real challenge ... figuring out which drum mix complimented the song the best ...

Thank you for sharing your experiences in the studio and also for passing on the positive vibe I felt by reading your post.

You know exactly how this collaboration is structured and I feel if the drum tracks are buried or if the key pieces of the kit are not heard (i.e. kick, snare, hats and ride), then we should work together to iron out our opinions.

My approach has been "...in my humble opinion..." then I would state it and then follow with "I might be wrong but what do you think?" and the conversation will continue until a consensus is reached.

I think just being involved in a recording project would be great. Someday I hope to experience it. Right now, "mixing drums" for me means "how many pieces of Moongel would you like?".

Brian, our recording sessions may included for me, a 90 minute round trip, twice a week, with at least one weekend dedicated to the project but the four years have flown by and the catalog of recorded material keeps growing like our friendship.

Listening to my shortcomings and discovering ways to improve the music has helped me become a better drummer and listener. Diplomacy can fly out the door if the passion for perfection gets mistaken for nitpicking.

Some songs are done without any overdubs if we can capture a vibe on the scratch track but the most important tool for us has been using a metronome as we create.

Typical scenario goes like this:

Guitar player/singer: "Hey that was a great take. Where are we on the click?"

Me: "110"

Guitar player/singer: "Do you think that was too fast or slow?"

Me: "It felt good."

Guitar player/singer: "Yeah, I thought so too...didn't have to rush the lyrics".

Here's the thread I started here back in 2012 and links to my Photobucket account for the sound clips.

http://www.drumchat.com/showthread.p...dio-32810.html

[Markadiddle]

Do I need to show up at your studio and straighten out the guys over there? LOL!

You still playing with Matt and Jackson?

[late8]

Do I need to show up at your studio and straighten out the guys over there? LOL!

You still playing with Matt and Jackson?

Dude, I need you to stop by so you can show me a few thing to take home.



and yes, the gang says "Hey Man!"

[Markadiddle]

Dude, I need you to stop by so you can show me a few thing to take home.

Good grief, you just HAD to post that pic, didn't you?

Not much I can show you my friend. I really haven't been playing much anymore. Too busy at work trying to figure out where this company is going with their technology. Hopefully, with all the time I'm putting in here, they'll keep me around.

[late8]

Good grief, you just HAD to post that pic, didn't you?

Had to post it. I think you're the only other drummer that's played the Gretsch USA. Pics or it didn't happen right?

[Markadiddle]

Had to post it. I think you're the only other drummer that's played the Gretsch USA. Pics or it didn't happen right?

Yes and I thank you for letting me play them. I'm very honored.

[late8]

Yes and I thank you for letting me play them. I'm very honored.

Any time my brother!

[longgun]

Being a 50/50 setup..............I would think you would be responsible for your mix...............I wonder if he would accept you mixing his vocals, guitar, etc?

If you're supporting someone, that's a different story, but this is a partnership

[late8]

Being a 50/50 setup..............I would think you would be responsible for your mix...............I wonder if he would accept you mixing his vocals, guitar, etc?

If you're supporting someone, that's a different story, but this is a partnership

Thanks Butch. What you said makes a lot of sense. I let him take totally control of his vocals and guitar, bass, keys etc. so I think I should be able to bring the drums in the mix if I feel it's buried.