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  1. #1

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    Default Open Letter To My New Band About Practice

    My new bandmates are coming over for practice tomorrow and I want to share the email exchange between me and the "founder" of the this band, the guitar player. My tone on the email may seem a bit stern but I had issues I needed to address before they show up tomorrow. I'm seeking opinions from members here to share your thoughts on what works/worked for you if you are/were in the same "boat". Thanks in advance.

    Yesterday--

    Guitar player:

    "I'm looking forward to seeing you all on Saturday, at Rich's at approximately at 10:30am. Ready to Rock? No clowning around lol (smiley face icon) See ya then!"

    Me:

    "Sounds good! See you guys then!

    Today--

    Me:

    "Let's be a little looser on our approach towards practice. I want our time spent together to be productive but yet have fun at the same time. I thought the last time we got together in Placerville was like going through Boot Camp.

    I think we actually played a song without me being ready but yet I never got chance to play the tune since we just forged ahead to the next song on the list. That doesn't work for me!

    During my time playing in my last cover band, I had to learn a set list of over 65 songs all of by ear. With that being said, if I need to play a song more than once, please accommodate my request.

    If your fingers get sore plucking strings because we have to spend time learning a section of music more than once, then build up calluses on the fingers at home".

    Guitar player:

    "We probably should have a friendly conversation about methodology of practice and other things to aid productivity. Looking forward to seeing you all".
    Last edited by late8; 03-24-2017 at 08:08 PM.

  2. #2

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    Rich, I think your last paragraph could be interpreted as a tad harsh. It's really hard to converse via written word. Vocal inflections, body language, etc., are all part of the communication process. Unless you write a ton of detail, thoughts and emotions tend to get misinterpreted easily.

    Regardless, I have the opposite problem. Our practices tend to be too loose. I'd like to get my guys to be more focused and productive!
    -Brian

    "Too many crappy used drum stuff to list"

    Play the SONG......not the DRUMS!!!

    "I think that feeling is a lot more important than technique. It's all very well doing a triple paradiddle - but who's going to know you've done it? If you play technically you sound like everybody else. It's being original that counts." ~ John Bonham

  3. #3

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    Yeah, the last paragraph was a little harsh but it is good to be stern sometimes. I like how you put it out there now letting them know how you feel and operate. Nothing wrong with taking practice serious it is valuable time but I do agree with loosening up a little. I'm in a pick up band now for a gig next month and we can't get through a whole set only 5 songs. We practiced one day a week for about 5 hours. I

  4. #4

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    Quote Originally Posted by N2Bluz View Post
    Rich, I think your last paragraph could be interpreted as a tad harsh. It's really hard to converse via written word. Vocal inflections, body language, etc., are all part of the communication process. Unless you write a ton of detail, thoughts and emotions tend to get misinterpreted easily.

    Regardless, I have the opposite problem. Our practices tend to be too loose. I'd like to get my guys to be more focused and productive!
    Thanks for chiming in Brian. And yes, that last paragraph stuck a nerve with the guys. I wore them out on the practice before the last one and both the bass player and the guitar player complained to me that their fingers were sore and wanted to play the songs just one time and just plow through the set list. In my opinion, drummers who play metal need to build stamina and I have it. You guys know what it takes to play four one hour sets. That's the regiment I just came from playing in my last coverband. Now I'm taking on the role to emulate a "hired gun" (Vinny Appice) and I'm not even given a chance to grind out parts with these guys and get it right? These guys haven't played with a drummer and the songs I'm learning were only played once during the file sharing process so we're all learning together. I'm done "pulling punches". I'm the oldest member at age 57 and the last thing I want to hear is "my fingers are sore from playing the same song more than once".

    Quote Originally Posted by Goro View Post
    Yeah, the last paragraph was a little harsh but it is good to be stern sometimes. I like how you put it out there now letting them know how you feel and operate. Nothing wrong with taking practice serious it is valuable time but I do agree with loosening up a little. I'm in a pick up band now for a gig next month and we can't get through a whole set only 5 songs. We practiced one day a week for about 5 hours. I
    Thanks for sharing your situation Goro. We practice once a week for about 5 hours too and like you guys we can't get through the entire set (17 songs), maybe 5 songs but in my humble opinion, I rather play 5 really tight songs than just plow through and play 17 sloppy songs. I'm told by my wife that I set too high expectations from people and I agree with her. But I hope people expect the best out of me and I really try hard to meet their expectations but if I fall shy of it, it makes me try even harder.

  5. #5

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    I'm with you on this one Rich. The last thing I want to do is get to a gig, unsure of myself. It does no one any favors - me, the band, or the song. Fortunately, I don't have to worry about this issue you are dealing with. Everyone in my band is more than willing to play a song over again until we are all comfortable with it.

    Don't move on when you get a song right. Move on when you can't get it wrong.

    Tex

  6. #6

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    I'm having the opposite problem (not serious enough) with one of my bands right now but I have to deal with it in a similar way. My advice would be to be very firm but still polite (as you were in your email) and hopefully if you all get the songs down, you can have fun doing it. You said something about being hired gun so even if your personal relationships with these guys get ruined, it's not like you've lost a friendship.

    And the whole finger thing is so stupid! I HATE it when people do this! The singer in one of my bands never practices (and how can you not practice something you can do anywhere) so she fake coughs when she doesn't know a part. Once the rest of the band shredded through one of our songs, which is probably about 190 bpm with crazy drum and bass parts, and she said she wanted to take a break, even though we just had one. My hands were bleeding like I'd been attacked by a shark and SHE wanted a break!?!

    Sorry, I kind of had to vent. Good luck with your band and let us know how it works out!
    I don't put a face on God. So he would probably look like Jimi Hendrix.
    - Chad Smith
    Everyone's screwed up in their own special way.
    Joey Ramone

  7. #7

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    I think the fingers getting sore part could have been left out. I'll say this: whenever I was in a band we would discuss before hand the songs we would be learning at the next practice. I would be sure that I knew the songs forward and backward before I went to practice. So the motto here: be prepared.

  8. #8

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    I agree with the consensus of it being a lil harsh, then again you are old so they can chalk it up to just being a grumpy old man...LOL J/K. I like most here having the opposite problem. We skip a lot of songs in practice because they have done them soooo many times and guess which songs we consistently screw up at the gig? I put an end to that recently, we run through at least one set list each practice before trying new stuff. I am trying to get them to play 3 songs in a row before stopping to talk and drink a beer but so far have not made it past 2..
    Ludwig Classic Maple 22x16,10x8,12x9,16x16
    7" Moon Gel Practice Pad
    Sabian HHX Legacy

    Decide whether this is love for the craft or simply an ego thing

    http://www.redskymary.com/ NOT MY BAND, JUST A GREAT LOCAL BAND WHO SHOULD BE SOOO MUCH BIGGER IMO

  9. #9

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    I don't blame you for wanting to have productive rehearsals but IMHO it needs to be fun too. Like some others here have said, maybe map out/plan what you want to cover and make sure everyone comes prepared. Maybe by doing that you don't need to have 5 hour marathon rehearsals. That's insane. Hour and a half tops once a week for us. Sometimes every other week. I do agree with doing a song until you get it right. Never understood the mentality of moving on to another tune when your weren't happy with the one you just did.
    Last edited by inthpktplayer; 03-25-2017 at 09:38 AM.

  10. #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by Texdrumr View Post
    I'm with you on this one Rich. The last thing I want to do is get to a gig, unsure of myself. It does no one any favors - me, the band, or the song. Fortunately, I don't have to worry about this issue you are dealing with. Everyone in my band is more than willing to play a song over again until we are all comfortable with it.

    Don't move on when you get a song right. Move on when you can't get it wrong.

    Tex
    Thanks the comments Randy. Your band is very good and now I know why.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ramona View Post
    I'm having the opposite problem (not serious enough) with one of my bands right now but I have to deal with it in a similar way. My advice would be to be very firm but still polite (as you were in your email) and hopefully if you all get the songs down, you can have fun doing it. You said something about being hired gun so even if your personal relationships with these guys get ruined, it's not like you've lost a friendship.

    And the whole finger thing is so stupid! I HATE it when people do this! The singer in one of my bands never practices (and how can you not practice something you can do anywhere) so she fake coughs when she doesn't know a part. Once the rest of the band shredded through one of our songs, which is probably about 190 bpm with crazy drum and bass parts, and she said she wanted to take a break, even though we just had one. My hands were bleeding like I'd been attacked by a shark and SHE wanted a break!?!

    Sorry, I kind of had to vent. Good luck with your band and let us know how it works out!
    Ramona thanks for sharing your story and feelings towards rehearsal. You can't fake it and get away with on stage. A band must take the approach that it's a team effort and it always amazes me that somebody will feel like the self anointed leader and dictate what songs are to be rehearsed, for how long etc. etc.

    I've walked out on bands when I'm treated as just a drum machine. I'm doing a lot of following rather than leading the band on the tune we play. I've done my homework every week and expect to be given a benefit of a doubt if I need to go over the bridge or verse. It's critical as you know to lead the band into those transitions and I'm not going to get short changed if I don't have those parts down. I can't do a fake cough move on.

    Quote Originally Posted by NPYYZ View Post
    I think the fingers getting sore part could have been left out. I'll say this: whenever I was in a band we would discuss before hand the songs we would be learning at the next practice. I would be sure that I knew the songs forward and backward before I went to practice. So the motto here: be prepared.
    Yeah I was a bit harsh about the sore fingers but I'm busting my knuckles back there and doing my best to keep the vibe going. Today's rehearsal will be interesting. I've been in too many situations where the drummer is just "the drummer". We are the backbone of the band and I should given some leeway if I'm not comfortable with my part.

    Quote Originally Posted by MDK View Post
    I agree with the consensus of it being a lil harsh, then again you are old so they can chalk it up to just being a grumpy old man...LOL J/K. I like most here having the opposite problem. We skip a lot of songs in practice because they have done them soooo many times and guess which songs we consistently screw up at the gig? I put an end to that recently, we run through at least one set list each practice before trying new stuff. I am trying to get them to play 3 songs in a row before stopping to talk and drink a beer but so far have not made it past 2..
    Yep chalk it up to being a grumpy old man. I said my peace and if they got issues with that, then we need to iron things out before I waste everybody's time.

    Quote Originally Posted by inthpktplayer View Post
    I don't blame you for wanting to have productive rehearsals but IMHO it needs to be fun too. Like some others here have said, maybe map out/plan what you want to cover and make sure everyone comes prepared. Maybe by doing that you don't need to have 5 hour marathon rehearsals. That's insane. Hour and a half tops once a week for us. Sometimes every other week. I do agree with doing a song until you get it right. Never understood the mentality of moving on to another tune when your weren't happy with the one you just did.
    Thanks Marc. These guys are good musicians and know the material and have been together for three years, me? Three weeks into it and three rehearsals under my belt.
    Last edited by late8; 03-25-2017 at 12:12 PM.

  11. #11

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    When I joined SHIPP, I was replacing a drummer in an existing gigging band...............the other two guys were ready and I was the one that was dragging things out.
    Sometimes I would work hard to learn the tune and then at practice find out that the song is played differently at gigs.

    That's when I recorded a practice session and then worked all I wanted on my own................then I was ready when we got together.

    This may be different from your situation.
    Gretsch USA & Zildjian
    (What Else Would I Ever Need ?)


  12. #12

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    Rich, once you explained what's going in on, I understand and agree with you. It makes me think that "productive" practice to them doesn't quite mean the same as it does to those of us who play live gigs. I know you guys can work everything out as a team. My only "advice" would be to refrain from emails (which can come across poorly) and save it for face-to-face band meetings where quality communication can take place.
    -Brian

    "Too many crappy used drum stuff to list"

    Play the SONG......not the DRUMS!!!

    "I think that feeling is a lot more important than technique. It's all very well doing a triple paradiddle - but who's going to know you've done it? If you play technically you sound like everybody else. It's being original that counts." ~ John Bonham

  13. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by N2Bluz View Post
    Rich, once you explained what's going in on, I understand and agree with you. It makes me think that "productive" practice to them doesn't quite mean the same as it does to those of us who play live gigs. I know you guys can work everything out as a team. My only "advice" would be to refrain from emails (which can come across poorly) and save it for face-to-face band meetings where quality communication can take place.
    That is good advice .

  14. #14

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    Good luck Rich
    It is better to get this stuff off your chest now before you get too involved with these guys.

  15. #15

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    HAHAHAHAHAHAHA build your callouses at home!!! omg that had my laughing

  16. #16

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    Rich, if they think you might be a little difficult to deal with, they would have been waiting in the tall grass for me.

  17. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ricardo View Post
    When I joined SHIPP, I was replacing a drummer in an existing gigging band...............the other two guys were ready and I was the one that was dragging things out.
    Sometimes I would work hard to learn the tune and then at practice find out that the song is played differently at gigs.

    That's when I recorded a practice session and then worked all I wanted on my own................then I was ready when we got together.

    This may be different from your situation.
    Thanks Ricky for the advice. For the last 5 years I've been in 3 bands and I'm always the noob. It seems like there's a lack of drummers in my town or maybe they just give up but I'm good at picking up where the last drummer left off. Diplomacy, I thought was my strong point but sometimes you just have to draw the line. The expectation of trying to style my playing after Vinny Appice is a bar that's set pretty high so I've put a lot of pressure on myself to play like him and when I felt I wasn't given the time during practice to work out my transitions. It felt as though I had one hand tied behind my back.

    The first draft that Vinny sent back was rejected by the guitar player. Apparently to him, Vinny was holding back and playing it "safe" and after and exchange of emails back and forth, the guitar player finally got what he paid for; a drummer who is overplaying and adding fills over guitar leads and cramming very nook and cranny with every heavy metal fill known to mankind and the guitar player was thrilled with it.

    I went online and bought a DVD that Vinny produced and unbeknownst to me it was a filmed over twenty years ago while he was in Black Sabbath. He explains that his foundation to his drumming is the 16th note pattern. 1/8th note hihat and ride patterns are broken up with dotted 1/8th notes and he considers the pocket as "white bread drumming". Bonham was a huge influence on Vinny and after realizing this, I went back and listened to the 8 songs he recorded and I'm learning there are many shades of Bonham all over those songs. I've unlocked what I've been struggling to play now that I'm armed with this information. I'm ready to change my attitude and except the fact that I need to be me and know I know where my limitations are but I'm striving to reach way out of my comfort zone and learn and appreciate what Appice and Bonham have contributed to heavy metal drumming.

    Quote Originally Posted by N2Bluz View Post
    Rich, once you explained what's going in on, I understand and agree with you. It makes me think that "productive" practice to them doesn't quite mean the same as it does to those of us who play live gigs. I know you guys can work everything out as a team. My only "advice" would be to refrain from emails (which can come across poorly) and save it for face-to-face band meetings where quality communication can take place.
    You're a very wise man Brian and your advice is well taken. I was told and I agree that the next time I feel short changed at practice, I need to speak up and not resort to emails. Thanks again.

    Quote Originally Posted by jedi View Post
    That is good advice .
    I totally agree Rudy!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Pearl MCX Man View Post
    Good luck Rich
    It is better to get this stuff off your chest now before you get too involved with these guys.
    Thanks Gilles. I got a lot off my chest today and we know where we stand with each other now. I wish I could meet you in person someday to thank you for all of the support you've given me and this forum.

    Quote Originally Posted by SpazApproved View Post
    HAHAHAHAHAHAHA build your callouses at home!!! omg that had my laughing
    Dude, I'm glad you knew where I was coming from. The first 15 minutes were very tense when these guys showed up at my garage. The bass player took it really personal that I made that comment and felt it was directly aimed at him and he was really sore about reading that comment that was addressed to the entire band through the email chain. He was the one really pushing me at practice last week to plow through the set list.

    I'm not on the "clock" at band practice like I am at work and I stood my ground. Yeah maybe it was a harsh thing to say as others have posted but we know how some musicians think of us as drummers and I felt like my role was diminished in a way where I wasn't given a benefit of the doubt that I needed more time to work out the tunes as a band. There's only so much homework we can do on our own and when the band shows up and plays something different than what I've been studying on my own time, I feel like I wasted my time and now I'm stuck dragging the practice down to a standstill while I try to unlearn what's in my head.

    Quote Originally Posted by rickthedrummer View Post
    Rich, if they think you might be a little difficult to deal with, they would have been waiting in the tall grass for me.
    Bawhahaha! Man, this is why you're one of my many heroes on this forum. You got 60+ years of drumming in every gin joint on the east coast and elsewhere in this country. You've met and hung out with the legends of drumming (including Buddy Rich and many more) and you bring the truth with such humor and wit. I can't thank you enough for your presence on DC and the friendship you share with us on this forum.

    Today was a good day at practice! I said what I had to say and apologized about my lack of diplomacy surrounding this issue and it's all behind us now.

    Last edited by late8; 03-25-2017 at 11:04 PM.

  18. #18

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    Nice practice pad. They're being spoiled
    RDM/Damage Poets
    UFiP TAMAHA Zildjian
    REGAL TiP
    AQUARIAN

  19. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by slinky View Post
    Nice practice pad. They're being spoiled
    Thanks slinky!!

  20. #20

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    Glad it worked out. Face to face is usually the best way to work things out.

  21. #21

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    Tomorrow night is a "band meeting" to discuss strategy going into a big gig on Cinco de Mayo.................I'm really looking forward to a party at this next gig.
    We have not played a note together since our last gig on February 18th...............this is intentional because our bass player had worked around our schedule to have surgery on February 22nd...................he is just now feeling good enough after recovery to get together to discuss (he had a rough time)..............next week I think we actually play music.

    There is one person in the band that is constantly pushing new material even when it is not needed...............I can appreciate the need to evolve the set list but I also hate to work up new material and then find out it isn't going to fit for one reason or another. We worked up a 5-song medley for the last gig (and it lasts 20 minutes) and one of those songs did not come off well -- it was the only weak spot of the entire night.
    I'm expecting to be asked if I want to work up this or that new song and I intend to suggest we get the other material down solid before considering some thing else.

    It is not finger-pointing...................but it is a proclamation that one or two people need to woodshed for a while.

    As we all know and have experienced, this sort of thing is always happening in bands..............and as long as it is diplomatic and corrective, all is good.
    When a band member takes this sort of suggestion as being critical, he needs to check the mirror.
    Gretsch USA & Zildjian
    (What Else Would I Ever Need ?)


  22. #22

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    It surprises me (although it shouldn't) how similar the struggles are, regardless of how good, bad, big or small the band is.

    We spent two months working on new songs at every practice. We were able pull off 5 or 6 of them without a hitch....at practice. We never touched the old songs (against my warnings) because the guys didn't think we needed to. Sure enough, the next gig, we screwed up several old songs that we've done 1000 times. To make it worse, we tried just ONE of the "new" songs and it was a train wreck...never even got it started. The following practice I insisted that we go over every old song, start to finish, and not touch a new one. The next gig (last Saturday) we stuck to the old set list and knocked em out of the park.
    I've told the guys; we need new songs, but they need to be added gradually, one at a time. If they want to add them more frequently, then they need to practice them on their own time.
    -Brian

    "Too many crappy used drum stuff to list"

    Play the SONG......not the DRUMS!!!

    "I think that feeling is a lot more important than technique. It's all very well doing a triple paradiddle - but who's going to know you've done it? If you play technically you sound like everybody else. It's being original that counts." ~ John Bonham

  23. #23

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    Quote Originally Posted by inthpktplayer View Post
    Glad it worked out. Face to face is usually the best way to work things out.
    Thanks Marc. Face to face it is from here on out!

    Quote Originally Posted by Ricardo View Post
    Tomorrow night is a "band meeting" to discuss strategy going into a big gig on Cinco de Mayo.................I'm really looking forward to a party at this next gig.
    We have not played a note together since our last gig on February 18th...............this is intentional because our bass player had worked around our schedule to have surgery on February 22nd...................he is just now feeling good enough after recovery to get together to discuss (he had a rough time)..............next week I think we actually play music.

    There is one person in the band that is constantly pushing new material even when it is not needed...............I can appreciate the need to evolve the set list but I also hate to work up new material and then find out it isn't going to fit for one reason or another. We worked up a 5-song medley for the last gig (and it lasts 20 minutes) and one of those songs did not come off well -- it was the only weak spot of the entire night.
    I'm expecting to be asked if I want to work up this or that new song and I intend to suggest we get the other material down solid before considering some thing else.

    It is not finger-pointing...................but it is a proclamation that one or two people need to woodshed for a while.

    As we all know and have experienced, this sort of thing is always happening in bands..............and as long as it is diplomatic and corrective, all is good.
    When a band member takes this sort of suggestion as being critical, he needs to check the mirror.
    Thanks for sharing your insight Ricky. I got the impression I wasn't the only one who felt the pressure to learn new material. I'm still struggling to play the three songs we decided to start this project off with. As of now we are a trio. The rhythm guitar player who's a friend of the founder of this band didn't show up for practice on Saturday due to an out of town commitment. I found out as the guy's were tuning up.

    There was no communication between us and him so were wondering if his heart is into this project which worries me because he's the one that needs to practice the most. In my opinion it seems like in today's age, being in a band is not a necessity but a luxury. It's like having a vintage classic car in your garage and trying to maintain it takes time and money. It's not a necessity but it's nice take it out for a spin once in awhile to show it off and to receive compliments if the quality of work meets a certain standard and the parts are truly genuine.
    Quote Originally Posted by N2Bluz View Post
    It surprises me (although it shouldn't) how similar the struggles are, regardless of how good, bad, big or small the band is.

    We spent two months working on new songs at every practice. We were able pull off 5 or 6 of them without a hitch....at practice. We never touched the old songs (against my warnings) because the guys didn't think we needed to. Sure enough, the next gig, we screwed up several old songs that we've done 1000 times. To make it worse, we tried just ONE of the "new" songs and it was a train wreck...never even got it started. The following practice I insisted that we go over every old song, start to finish, and not touch a new one. The next gig (last Saturday) we stuck to the old set list and knocked em out of the park.
    I've told the guys; we need new songs, but they need to be added gradually, one at a time. If they want to add them more frequently, then they need to practice them on their own time.
    Great post. I feel bands need gigs lined up to keep focused. Paid gigs that are looming over a band will serve as a common goal where everybody has to be on the same page. Nobody wants to be embarrassed in front of a crowd or even worse, you don't want to disappoint the promoter that hired the band either.

    If we ever get our act together, this band will be the "opener" and we know this. As an opener, I'd like to have at least 5, maybe 6 song down, play them tight, then hustle off stage. That would equate to a 30 minute set and I'm totally fine with that!

  24. #24

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    Quote Originally Posted by late8 View Post
    I feel bands need gigs lined up to keep focused. Paid gigs that are looming over a band will serve as a common goal where everybody has to be on the same page. Nobody wants to be embarrassed in front of a crowd or even worse, you don't want to disappoint the promoter that hired the band either.
    Could not agree more; a band needs a gig in their future to remain motivated and to work in a a team-like fashion toward that goal.
    Gretsch USA & Zildjian
    (What Else Would I Ever Need ?)


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    Quote Originally Posted by late8 View Post
    If we ever get our act together, this band will be the "opener" and we know this. As an opener, I'd like to have at least 5, maybe 6 song down, play them tight, then hustle off stage. That would equate to a 30 minute set and I'm totally fine with that!
    That is extremely similar - if not identical - to my role with SHIPP.
    I loved that band.............and the mission................a power trio................100% original music.............the "opener" for touring acts coming through our region.
    We did half-hour sets and we did full-hour sets and we did everything in between, depending on what the promoter asked of us.
    We had a great run but the truth is there was not enough demand for that service to keep us busy.

    So I joined Rock Candy and played with both bands for a while...................eventually SHIPP ended.
    I was fortunate to be asked to play in Rock Candy -- now I do 100% pop covers and the gigs are much easier to get.
    We play clubs with a few private events thrown in as well.

    The best part about both bands (and the same is true for you now) is that all of the musicians are very experienced and devoted players.
    When the gig is coming up, everybody knows what needs to get done and it almost always happens.
    Of course you hear an occasional minor flub, but for the most part the music is clearly well performed.
    Gretsch USA & Zildjian
    (What Else Would I Ever Need ?)


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