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Thread: The Drum Rudiments Thread

  1. #26

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    When using odd groupings such as 5 or 7. I sometimes find it easier to count one hand. Example if i was doing a fill around the drums snare-tom-tom-floor tom and i was using a grouping of 5. i would count just the one arm making 3 right stokes then 3 left strokes and filling in the other 2 strokes with the opposing limb appropriately.

    R L R L R L R L R L etc notice how there is 3 Rights and 3 Lefts This makes subdividing pentuplets as easy as subdividing trips.


    and the same thing applies for groupings of seven except you would be counting 1 2 3 4 on each alternating limb.

    Don't know if this will be overly helpful as it is more often preferred to use double strokes when doing these kind of fills. But from time to time you can use single strokes to achieve the same thing.



    Another good excersise with double strokes this time. is alternating accents every 6 strokes Rr ll rr Ll rr ll Rr ll rr Ll rr ll
    makes for some nice sounding fills also.

    Anyway thats my 2 cents

    I hope someones finds a couple of these ideas a little useful. thanks keep drumming

    Kris.
    Last edited by Kris; 12-29-2007 at 06:31 AM.

  2. #27

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    I found some Rudiment vids on the net just now.. and the Double Parradiddle is exactly the same as the Paradiddle-diddle... how come??
    BIANCA!!
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    My kit
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    Set up like Ringo Starr's kit...
    22" bass drum
    Brand: DXP
    Cymbals: Zildjian ZBT Ride, DXP hi-hats and Crash.
    Snare: 14 x 6
    Tom Tom: 12 x 11
    Floor Tom: 16 x 16
    Hi-hats: 14" , Crash: 16", Ride: 18"



    "Life Is What Happens When You're Busy Making Other Plans" - John lennon

  3. #28

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    Quote Originally Posted by DrumsGirl21 View Post
    I found some Rudiment vids on the net just now.. and the Double Parradiddle is exactly the same as the Paradiddle-diddle... how come??
    They aren't the same!!
    The Double paradiddle is:
    RLRLRR or LRLRLL

    The Para-Diddle-Diddle is:
    RLRRLL or LRLLRR
    Gretsch Catalina Birch 6 piece fusion set (10,12,14,16in. Toms, 22 Bass). Sabian 20" HH Classic Ride, 16" Istanbul Agop Dark Crash, & Zildian K 13" Hi-hats.

  4. #29

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    Quote Originally Posted by drums drums drums View Post
    Speed comes with time. You should just practice a lot and it will all come.
    OLA como estas DRUM DRUM DRUM A very good Point(STATEMENT)
    STICKS WIZZARD DRAGON

  5. #30

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    OLA como estas all CREATIVE OPEN MINDED ARTISTIC DRUMMER ARTIST*
    I know that the rudiments are the scals FROM THE VERY SIMPLE TO EXTREMMMMMXXX COMPLEX DYNAMIC*Technique's
    of This, FANTASTIC ANCIENT SPIRITUAL Ancient art of Drumming ,
    Just like studying the piano you learn all the( scales )as A Musical
    structure within the Technique's that you as being A ARTISTIC musical
    Artist will then apply within all Musical Styles.So the rudiments are very important to gain dynamics, strenghts for the muscle used for this very
    physical instrument as you all know*as well as textures within your control
    of your Hands Fingers -& feet * ALL * my Teachers always said Make them SING WITHIN ALL & EVERY MUSIC STYLE*Musical..so I apply them as you who study them know

    Gracias
    Last edited by STICKSWIZZARDDRAGON; 07-01-2008 at 03:13 AM.

  6. #31

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    Quote Originally Posted by Byrne View Post
    Hi Folks!,

    Happy to be posting on this forum - I'm a newbie to this site. I've been playing drums semi-professionally for 25 years, mostly jazz, but plenty of rock, funk and blues as well. I've studied with Mike Clark, Sam Ulano, Kim Plainfield, Les DeMerle, Marvin "Smitty" Smith, Kenny Washington and others.

    Regarding rudiiments - my humble opinion is to not obsess over them at the expense of musical drumming - while I think they are important, focusing on them too intently for too long a period of time can make you sound unmusical. Roy Haynes is but one master who never studied the rudiments, and he is one of the badest players that the world has ever seen. This is just but one example. Keep in mind that they were written in 1812 by Ashworth (based on European drum patterns) for military drummers. When playing with a band, regardless of style, do we want to sound like marching band drummers?

    I personally have studied them extensively and would practice them as they came up in my routine, I found them useful to get some chops together but they never enter my mind when playing with a band. ehhhh - that's my two cents.

    Cheers,
    Byrne

    Not many know the name Sam Ulano. My teacher studied with Sam and then used all of Sam's books as teaching methods for his students. I still remember working with Sam's ABC Guide to Reading; Bass Bops and Rudimental Guide To Drumming. Years later when I was teaching, I used those same method books with my students. After 45 years of teaching , my Teacher passed away but Sam is still in there. It's a legacy that has been passed on from Sam to countless drummers and I am fortunate to have been an heir to that reward.

  7. #32

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    thanks this Helped me alot
    My Drum Kit:5 Piece Ludwig Accent CS Combo Its Wine Red....Cymbals: Solar by Sabian 18" Crash/Ride and 14" Hi-Hats

  8. #33

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    40 rudiments? is that all ... i would have thought there were a whole lot more? inst there like hand and feet rudiments as well?
    this is a great thread.
    thanks
    r00n.

  9. #34

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    Quote Originally Posted by r00n View Post
    40 rudiments? is that all ... i would have thought there were a whole lot more? inst there like hand and feet rudiments as well?
    this is a great thread.
    thanks
    r00n.
    What's usually done is you take all the rudiments, get cumfy with them on the snare - then.......apply all of them around your kit in dozens of combinations using feet and hands, all your drums, cymbals and whatever else you can knock around (in a nice musical way of course). That way 26 or 40 rudiments become a whole lot more........it's endless.

    Good luck and have fun!
    Gary

    I pretty much like all drums....
    Gretsch being the drums of my choice since 1969

  10. #35

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    paradidle R L R R
    L R L L

  11. #36

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    Anyone know the rudiments that do not alternate? drumrudiments.com is a great resource, and I see the seven stroke and seventeen stroke do not. The books I have kind of don't make it clear. Anyone know a list of those that don't?

    Thanks!
    Last edited by drummer; 09-29-2008 at 10:27 PM.

  12. #37

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    Hey guys, i have Lawrence Stone's 'Stick Control'. Its a great book and helps loosen the chops alot... Wondering, if i practice from this book do i need to practice the basic rudiments also. Seems the book covers just about all of them. Help!!!

  13. #38

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    Quote Originally Posted by reboundjunkie View Post
    Hey guys, i have Lawrence Stone's 'Stick Control'. Its a great book and helps loosen the chops alot... Wondering, if i practice from this book do i need to practice the basic rudiments also. Seems the book covers just about all of them. Help!!!
    HOLA como estas REBOUNDJUNKIE MI AMIGO CREATIVE ARTISTIC DRUMMER ARTIST(CAT) THE GEORGE LAWRENCE STONE COLLECTIONS of MASTER WORKS PIECES *within this VERY ANCIENT SPIRITUAL ART FORM *are FANTASTIC for GAINING within AMAZING FINESSE *FINE GRACEFUL FEATHER SOLF STRUCTURED DISCIPLINED (TECHNIQUES) THAT A very SERIOUS DISCIPLINED ARTIST "CAN" & "WILL" GAIN AMAZING KNOWLEDGE from all HIS MASTER WORKS * BUT the RUDIMENST are A seperarte MASTER WORKS *YOu still NEED To SPEND VERY DISCIPLINED TIME within GAINING AMAZING
    Beyond KNOWLEDGE & also GAINING KNOWLEDGE within THE SWISS CHART RUDIMENTS **THEIR IS within INFINITE DIMENSIONS of GAINING KNOWLEDGE of AND within the INFINITE AMOUNT of ACTUAL STICKING
    VARIATIONS OF & FROM very simple TO THE EXTREMMMMMXXXXX COMPLEX
    RHYTHMS that within THE ARTIST OWN DISTINCT UNIQUE STYLE( ARTISTRY)
    CAN CREATE AMAZING CONTROL within A DISCIPLINED CREATIVE ARTISTIC OPEN MINDED ARTIST MIND & SOUL within THEIR OWN UNIQUE JOURNEYS**
    SO ITS ALL FANTASTIC * AND THIS VERY ANCIENT SPIRITUAL ART FORM is A LIFE TIME AND BEYOND TO MASTER **GRACIAS amigo

  14. #39

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    Quote Originally Posted by DrumsGirl21 View Post
    I found some Rudiment vids on the net just now.. and the Double Parradiddle is exactly the same as the Paradiddle-diddle... how come??

    ****************************************

    The Double Paradiddle is the same thing as the Paradiddle-diddle...same Rudiment, two ways of calling it.
    There's a lot to be said for Time Honored tradition and value.

    http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/j...vaz/TheSet.jpg

  15. #40

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    i'm quite a bit deep into rolls of all kind. i'm a rudiments addict in fact. when i'm alone behind the set, i set my metronome and do my rudiments work with the click on, but it's for my sactisfaction only cuze i rarely have to use 10% of them in recording condition. it only fit free jazz music or seasonned jazz-rock prog .

    you can get away in most music style with paraddidle and double paraddidle.

    also,i try to make them sounding as good on the tomline than on the snare wich is not so easy, cuze the ''touch''/rebound between snare and toms shift drasticaly and is not the same at all....it's at that point where technique is crucial for cut and clear rolls on the tomline. imo.

  16. #41

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    Quote Originally Posted by fiacovaz View Post
    ****************************************

    The Double Paradiddle is the same thing as the Paradiddle-diddle...same Rudiment, two ways of calling it.
    Fiacovaz,
    I hate to disagree, but according to the Percussive arts society they are different rudiments, with different sticking:
    The double Paradiddle is R L R L R R L R L R L L

    The paradiddle-diddle is R L R R L L L R L L R R

    I have seen them shown as being the same on some web-sites, but any reliable source I've seen lists them as being different, with the sticking shown above.
    Gretsch Catalina Birch 6 piece fusion set (10,12,14,16in. Toms, 22 Bass). Sabian 20" HH Classic Ride, 16" Istanbul Agop Dark Crash, & Zildian K 13" Hi-hats.

  17. #42

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    Quote Originally Posted by Church Drummer View Post
    Fiacovaz,
    I hate to disagree, but according to the Percussive arts society they are different rudiments, with different sticking:
    The double Paradiddle is R L R L R R L R L R L L

    The paradiddle-diddle is R L R R L L L R L L R R

    I have seen them shown as being the same on some web-sites, but any reliable source I've seen lists them as being different, with the sticking shown above.

    ***********************************************

    You are correct about that. My experience with Rudimental Drumming was immersed in the Standard 26 Strube rudiments of Drumming. Many years later, this list was expanded to the current 40 Rudiments. On occasion I have taken a look at listings to see these newer rudiments and saw the similarities of the doundle paradiddle and the paradiddle-diddle. Do keep in mind though, one is a variation of the other but I agree that it make more sense to have a definitive name for each. Thanks for bringing this to my attention.
    There's a lot to be said for Time Honored tradition and value.

    http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/j...vaz/TheSet.jpg

  18. #43

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    All drum exercises and beats must be practised slow at first. Start off slow, at say 60bpm on the metronome. Once you practised the rhythm a lot and a lot, it will enter into your muscle memory. Muscle memory is when an action is repeated many times, and so becomes easy to do without thinking of what your doing...eg. Tying a shoelace. You've tied shoelaces so often that it becomes easy to do it without thinking. This is what you must achieve in drum rudiments etc.

    Once the rhythm has entered muscle memory, start putting up the speed...you'll now when to. You will notice it will become quite easy to play things faster now, to achieve speeds you couldn't do before.

    Also, once you think you have got hang of the rhythm/rudiment, now try playing it as slow as possible. You probably find this harder than playing it fast! This is because there are bigger gaps in between the hits, so it becomes harder to keep time.

    Hope this gives a few pointers.

  19. #44

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    Quote Originally Posted by kelinu View Post
    All drum exercises and beats must be practised slow at first. Start off slow, at say 60bpm on the metronome. Once you practised the rhythm a lot and a lot, it will enter into your muscle memory. Muscle memory is when an action is repeated many times, and so becomes easy to do without thinking of what your doing...eg. Tying a shoelace. You've tied shoelaces so often that it becomes easy to do it without thinking. This is what you must achieve in drum rudiments etc.

    Once the rhythm has entered muscle memory, start putting up the speed...you'll now when to. You will notice it will become quite easy to play things faster now, to achieve speeds you couldn't do before.

    Also, once you think you have got hang of the rhythm/rudiment, now try playing it as slow as possible. You probably find this harder than playing it fast! This is because there are bigger gaps in between the hits, so it becomes harder to keep time.

    Hope this gives a few pointers.
    yes, i totally knew that hahaha! actually i didnt.

  20. #45

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    The paradiddlediddle versus Doubleparadiddle debate. IMHO it's in the name.

    If a paradiddle is RLRR LRLL, (and it IS:) The RL or LR is "Para" and RR or LL is "Diddle." It's onomatopoeic.

    Therefore, RLRRLL is a para and 2 diddles, Paradiddlediddle, and RLRLRR is two, (double, ) paras and a diddle. doubleparadiddle.

    So what's the point of all these anyway, well, here's a REALLY nice thing, particularly for a relative beginner to look at.

    Start with a Paradiddlediddle, you'll notice BTW that these don't alternate. So:-

    RLRRLL,RLRRLL etc. Played in a triplet feel. (The comma is just to make reading this easier, it should be played continuously.)

    Then change the starting point Thusley:-

    RLLRLR,RLLRLR

    Then move the right hand onto the cymbal with the left lightly on the snare:-

    R [X--X-X,X--X-X]
    L [-oo-o-,-oo-o- ]

    Now you have the basic jazz ride pattern, with the snare filling every other note on the snare.

    It can also be moved around the kit in other ways. Try it in 16th note triplets, ghosting the left hand, and dropping the first beat of the second set onto the snare. This gives you a nice funky half-time swingy sort of thingy.

    Enjoy.

    Andy
    Last edited by AndyC; 12-17-2008 at 07:27 AM.

  21. #46

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    Ok I've only been playing like less that a year and I'm just starting to work rudiments because I've been kind of stuck in a sense. I don't really feel that I'm progressing very well. I have like two fills mastered, I play a fill that was taught to me as a "Pat Boone- Debbie Boone" (snare, tom, snare, snare, tom played as rr rlr if you say those names while your doing it, it makes sense) and another that is pretty much a single stroke roll between the snare and 1st and 2nd tom (s,s,1t,s s,s,2t,s played as rlrl rlrl). Anyway those are like the only fills I can get it in a song so I figured I should work rudiments.

    I said all of that to say this, the double stroke is kicking my butt. I watch a video and it looks like it's a hit/bounce hit/bounce, but its explained a hit/hit hit/hit. I cant get two consecutive hits that fast and if I try the hit/bounce I cant stop the stick after the bounce and then if I try to move that to a tom well theres no rebound. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

    Maybe confusing but I think that explains my problem

  22. #47

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    Quote Originally Posted by Byrne View Post
    Regarding rudiiments - my humble opinion is to not obsess over them at the expense of musical drumming - while I think they are important, focusing on them too intently for too long a period of time can make you sound unmusical. Roy Haynes is but one master who never studied the rudiments, and he is one of the badest players that the world has ever seen. This is just but one example. Keep in mind that they were written in 1812 by Ashworth (based on European drum patterns) for military drummers. When playing with a band, regardless of style, do we want to sound like marching band drummers?

    I personally have studied them extensively and would practice them as they came up in my routine, I found them useful to get some chops together but they never enter my mind when playing with a band. ehhhh - that's my two cents.

    Cheers,
    Byrne
    I totally agree with this post. I studied the entire rudiment sheet ad-nausium when in high school, then learned about 30 or so more when marching drum corps. A lot of them are really dated at this point, even in marching band settings, not to mention drum set applications. I use them with my students still, not to advocate use as-is, but to get their hands doing something that they are not used to.

    Since no one has posted it yet, here's the list of the PAS 40:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rudiment

    If you are just starting to get into these, here's my suggestions for prioritizing:
    1) (Open) Long Roll - essential. If you aren't willing to work on this, quit now.

    Use an exercise called double beat to strengthen this (make sure all notes are the same volume):
    RR-RR-RR-RR-R-R-|LL-LL-LL-LL-L-L-|

    2) Paradiddles - huge drumset applications. Changing where the 2 same hand notes are will give you endless possibilities. The double and triple variations aren't different enough to worry about.

    3) (Buzz) Multi-Bounce Roll - will be played mostly on snare, but good for that "vague" fill feel.

    4) 5,6,7,9,10,11,13,15,17 stroke rolls - basically all the same thing except 7 and 11 which don't alternate and 6 and 10 which have 2 taps in them. Don't worry about the number of strokes, just practice a long roll with random taps inserted.

    5) Flam taps - don't play as-is much. Having a good grasp of this and the inverted flam taps let's you play crazy Latin beats more easily. Flatten the flams into double stops. Also, flam taps are basically triple beats with each hand.

    6)Paradiddle-diddle (yes, it's different than the double paradiddle) - this is critical when playing anything swing. You could get away with only this and well timed triplets on a straight-ahead jazz gig.

    Once you get a handle on these, move on to the rest of the useful ones - flam accent, pataflafla, swiss army triplet, flam drag.

    Unless you are marching, the rest don't have any good set applications (my opinion only).

    There are a few other exercises that aren't rudiments, but are essential to have any kind of decent hands.

    Accent to Tap - many variations exist. This is basically a string of (8th) notes on one hand at 2 distinct levels, say 9" for accents and 2-3" for tap. Total separation of volumes is key.
    Roving Accents - same as above but with running 16th notes.
    Check Patterns - 14 different ways you can play 4 16th notes by ommiting certain ones.

    As long as you are sitting at your kit, play these with simple foot variations - quarter notes on bd & hh together and separately, up beats on hh, quarters on bd/upbeats on hh, ect.

    If anyone is interested I can post the warm-up book I use to teach HS drumline. It has all of these in context.

    Practice!
    Last edited by Redeye; 01-12-2009 at 10:33 PM.
    Website with free full song transcriptions: redeyepercussion.com
    Youtube channel with covers, lessons, and product reviews: youtube.com/RedeyeSPR

  23. #48

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    My 2 cents on counting the paradiddle rudiments:

    RLRLRR
    LRLRLL ("Para-lara-diddle)


    Or the other one

    RLRRLL
    LRLLRR (para-diddle-diddle)


    It's my sound way to keep the sticking straight in my mind since "diddle" is always the double stroke.

  24. #49

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    has this one been invented yet? R R RLLR L; L L LRRL R

  25. #50

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    I just wanted to note, Since I started taking lessons and learning Rudiments a month or so ago, my playing has improved immensely. Not only am I gaining much more stick control but I'm also learning to apply the rudiments around the kit which in turn is really expanding my abaility to be creative.

    I read a comment in the thread saying that rudiments weren't really necessary and they were written back in the early 19th century for military drummers. While this is true, even if you dont use them on the kit on a regular basis, they will do wonders for improving your co-ordination, timing and stick control.

    I never thought they would matter as much as they do until I started learning them, now I wonder how I managed for so long without them.

    Kids, learn your rudiments, you'll be glad you did.

    http://bipolarbarbierocks.com

    Quote Originally Posted by fiacovaz View Post
    Quit belly aching and just do it...no other way.
    - RIP Frank

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