Page 4 of 6 FirstFirst ... 23456 LastLast
Results 76 to 100 of 149

Thread: The Drum Rudiments Thread

  1. #76

    User Info Menu

    Default Re: The Drum Rudiments Thread

    One of the strategies that my drum teacher gave me is to play a rudiment on say 100 BPM, play it as 8th notes, and then switch to 16th notes. Then back to 8th notes and back again, etc. That really helped me when I first learned how to play a paraddidle.
    Gretsch Catalina ash kit
    Pork Pie Big Black Brass snare
    Paiste Alpha Cymbals
    Stock hardware and pedal. Vic Firth 5B sticks.

  2. #77

    User Info Menu

    Default Re: The Drum Rudiments Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Riverr1 View Post
    Dumbledore, what you posted here is fantastic. It is the only post here that is about how the rudiments are used in music. Learning the rudimental patterns and practicing them for speed and stick control is necessary and fundamental to drumming but to "playing" the drums and music those exercises are nothing more then what learning to spell is to writing. Learning the rudiments is very linear, playing them is linear, but also and more importantly non-linear. This is really about what a good or great teacher can do for you and where drumming surpasses a supporting role in playing music.

    Since you brought up "Conneticut Half-Time" here's a cut and paste for you from somewhere else that addresses directly your exercise and more.

    "In order to sort out what was needed, before I learned to recognize the notation, the "words" if you will, I did precisely what you are talking about - breaking everything down to elements, then going from there. It only made it harder for me in the end.

    In every forms of drumming, there are forms and guidelines that are explicit, and others that are implied or understood. Of the latter, many are actually "obvious" if one understands the context of the score or the beating.........

    ........Perhaps if the author had written it with singles and buzzes the correct sticking would have been immediately clear and not made obscure by the "words"."
    Tom MacKenzie
    Wow, good post Riverr1....my head hurts after reading that lol. Don't forget to keep in touch with us DC Chatters every now and then, I heard or read somewhere that you're gonna be a lil' offline for a while, is that right?
    "...it's the Paradigm Of The Cosmos!" Stewart Copeland on Youtube

    668: The Number Of The Guy Next Door To The Beast.

    "A random act of kindness; it keeps my heart in shape!" - Late8

  3. #78

    User Info Menu

    Default Re: The Drum Rudiments Thread

    Drumbledore,

    No, it was your post which was good. Conneticut Half Time is notorious for putting beginning and intermediate drum lines out of step. It's exactly what you brought up except your approach is with the hi hat and bass drum. The effect is exactly the same. You've just changed the context and offered a worthwhile exercise to deal with it. Your point concisely reduced Tom's legthly letter to what it's all about. I thought it was astute of you to recognize a rudimental difficulty and then to translate it to a great exercise for the kit. Recognizing what a drummer is dealing with is one thing, being able to verbalize it and bring it to the table is quite a bit more imo. You're a teacher and it showed here. Better yet, you proved it.

    And I'm not going anywhere. I just won't be around as much once again. I had just hoped that some of the drummers here could help me make as much use of the time I had left with the internet with suggestions of sites I should or might want to visit.
    Last edited by Riverr1; 01-11-2011 at 12:17 PM.

  4. #79

    User Info Menu

    Default Re: The Drum Rudiments Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Riverr1 View Post
    Drumbledore,

    No, it was your post which was good. Conneticut Half Time is notorious for putting beginning and intermediate drum lines out of step. It's exactly what you brought up except your approach is with the hi hat and bass drum. The effect is exactly the same. You've just changed the context and offered a worthwhile exercise to deal with it. Your point concisely reduced Tom's legthly letter to what it's all about. I thought it was astute of you to recognize a rudimental difficulty and then to translate it to a great exercise for the kit. Recognizing what a drummer is dealing with is one thing, being able to verbalize it and bring it to the table is quite a bit more imo. You're a teacher and it showed here. Better yet, you proved it.

    And I'm not going anywhere. I just won't be around as much once again. I had just hoped that some of the drummers here could help me make as much use of the time I had left with the internet with suggestions of sites I should or might want to visit.
    Thanks man, but it wasn't me that came up with the idea of bass drum and hi-hat together with "Conneticut Half-time", it was one of my drum teachers from a while back, who he himself learned it from another. It still challenges me to this day, I get days where I'm almost through it and all of a sudden I lose it when it goes into the single stroke-7's/drags and ratamacue parts right at the end....really hard to do that with a metronome.

    Also, from the same book (The William F. Ludwig Snare Solo book)...."Kit-Kat"....that's a good one to do with the same foot pattern.

    If you're looking at Youtube videos, two series of videos I thoroughly recommend......Drum Channel hosted by Terry Bozzio and Vanz Drumming Lessons by Randy Van Patten. You'll never get sick of either of those.
    Last edited by Drumbledore; 01-11-2011 at 12:35 PM.
    "...it's the Paradigm Of The Cosmos!" Stewart Copeland on Youtube

    668: The Number Of The Guy Next Door To The Beast.

    "A random act of kindness; it keeps my heart in shape!" - Late8

  5. #80

    User Info Menu

    Default Re: The Drum Rudiments Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Drumbledore View Post
    Thanks man, but it wasn't me that came up with the idea of bass drum and hi-hat together with "Conneticut Half-time", it was one of my drum teachers from a while back, who he himself learned it from another. It still challenges me to this day, I get days where I'm almost through it and all of a sudden I lose it when it goes into the single stroke-7's/drags and ratamacue parts right at the end....really hard to do that with a metronome.

    Also, from the same book (The William F. Ludwig Snare Solo book)...."Kit-Kat"....that's a good one to do with the same foot pattern.

    If you're looking at Youtube videos, two series of videos I thoroughly recommend......Drum Channel hosted by Terry Bozzio and Vanz Drumming Lessons by Randy Van Patten. You'll never get sick of either of those.
    First, my neighbor has told me that I can piggy back on her wi fi when she is on line. I'm not sure if that is good or bad, but it works.

    I've seen the Vanz videos. They are good. The Drumchannel is hosted by DW isn't it?

    Ultimately what you are talking about in your post goes back to Stone's and Reed's books. At least how they've come to be used by a lot drummers. An exampe of which is this. Lines 30 and 31 from Stones book:

    RRLLRLLLRRLLRLLL
    LLRRLRRRLLRRLRRR

    Play the top line with your hands, and the bottom line with your feet. If your daring, then switch the playing to right and left side. It's all about getting comfortable with the uncomfortable stickings where everything doesn't start and stop in the typical comfort zone. Marco Minnemann formalized this in his book by calling the different lines Patterns and melodies. This is great stuff for getting comfortable with the awkward patterns at the kit. Once you have it down with unison playing, switch to alternate stickings. That adds a boost to sight reading abilities.

    It doesn't matter where or how you came across this, it still identifies where rudimental drumming makes that step from linear playing to non-linear playing. It's that point which separates drummers who practice rudimenhts from those that play the rudiments. There is a big difference between practicing rudiments and using them in your playing. It was your post in this thread that breached that world of difference.

    Here's an example of where it all goes, I like this guys videos:

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QusBeehdK9k&feature=related"]YouTube - Explanation of groove in 7 from Vinnie Colaiuta solo on Zildjian Day in New York[/ame]
    Last edited by Riverr1; 01-13-2011 at 06:36 AM.

  6. #81

    User Info Menu

    Default Re: The Drum Rudiments Thread

    Rudiments are the MOST important concept of percussion. If you have an iphone I definitely recommend the drum library app, I use it everyday. Another good tip to get fast on your rudiments is practice with the butt end of your stick (builds wrist strength) and play alternating diddles for five minutes before you start on rudiments. I find it also helps to play on an object that doesn't allow for any bounce. Another tip my old section leader told me is to pick a rudiment everyday and play it for an hour. Hope I added something worthwhile.
    yeah! rockin that vintage snare!

  7. #82

    User Info Menu

    Default Re: The Drum Rudiments Thread

    Hey guys,
    i found these in a book that came with my KORG beatlab metronome:






  8. #83

    User Info Menu

    Default Re: The Drum Rudiments Thread









    Hope they are usefull!

  9. #84

    User Info Menu

    Default Re: The Drum Rudiments Thread

    Dusko, all it's missing is the seventeen stroke roll, and that's it, you'd have all the 40 PAS Rudiments! (PAS= Percussion Arts Society) Have fun using as many of them as you possibly can around the set.
    "...it's the Paradigm Of The Cosmos!" Stewart Copeland on Youtube

    668: The Number Of The Guy Next Door To The Beast.

    "A random act of kindness; it keeps my heart in shape!" - Late8

  10. #85

    User Info Menu

    Default Re: The Drum Rudiments Thread

    OMG, I just found this thread and I went and downloaded and burned to DVD the 40 rudiments and a bunch of online rudiment incorporating lessons around the kit etc..Also tab reading and music reading in general, and I feel like I am about to embark on learning a new language...

    I have been playing around for 3 years or so, and I feel that I have made huge progress by myself, and a lot of what I do, just comes natural to me, like I can hear a song and I will practice it till I get it, with absolutely no knowledge of the rudiments I might be actually using!

    Still, I am getting a practice pad and a metronome and finally doing what I have bypassed for soooo long, and doing it because I want to be a better more educated player, and looking forward to the AHA! moments when I realize that I may have been doing some of these exercises all along and not even realized it!

    I sometimes think it may be a good idea to find an instructor that will watch me and establish a baseline of where I am at in skill level etc..
    What say you guys?
    Tama Swingstar-6Piece
    14" Wood Snare-
    Aquarian Focus X
    10" Tom
    Aquarian Response 2
    12"-13"Toms-
    Aquarian Super2 Powerdots
    22" Kick-
    Aquarian Super Kick2 w/Force2reso

    Sabian XS20-Hats
    Paiste Alpha 14" Thin Crash
    Paiste Alpha 16" Medium Crash
    Paiste Alpha 17" Thin Crash
    Meinl Amum 17" Power Crash
    Paiste Alpha 18" Med.Crash
    Paiste Dimensions 18" Ride
    Wuhan -18" China

  11. #86

    User Info Menu

    Smile Re: The Drum Rudiments Thread

    Hey guys I'm learning the rudiments too!

    Bottom line: They're the code we speak. If you can't work flexibly with the code, you can't quickly call the troops back, send them forward, and be fluid about your play.

    Here's where I'm at:

    I mastered RLRRLL, and LRLLRR, and the hard part, is now, where I'm trying to put them together sort of like this RLRRLLLRLLRRR - Is that right? Anyway, if I lose track mentally, the sticks fall out of my hands or something stupid happens, ha ha ha.

    This happen to you guys?

    It's all about concentration. And practice. Challenging!

  12. #87

    User Info Menu

    Default Re: The Drum Rudiments Thread

    Rickkus, that particular rudiment is the "paradiddle-diddle", which, unlike most of the other paradiddle based rudiments, was not really intended as an "alternating rudiment".....ie: go right hand lead, then left hand lead. Still, it is good to try it out as RLRRLL then LRLLRR. However, all other paradiddle rudiments such as the single paradiddle RLRR LRLL (and all it's variations, such as reversed: RRLR LLRL, inward para: RLLR LRRL and the inward-outward para: RLRL LRLR), the double paradiddle RLRLRR LRLRLL, the triple paradiddle RLRLRLRR LRLRLRLL and so on are designed to go from right hand lead to left hand lead.

    So maybe try out RLRLRR LRLRLL instead of what your doing, if you're looking at an exercise to work from right-hand lead to left-hand lead. You can also, as an extra challenge, instead of thinking of three pairs of eighth notes....RL RL RR, maybe try the exercise as two groups of triplets each time.....RLR LRR then LRL RLL or even in sixteenth note form (1e+a, 2e+a, 3e+a) try it as RLRL RRLR LRLL. These are some of the ways to get comfortable with it.
    Last edited by Drumbledore; 04-27-2011 at 01:24 PM.
    "...it's the Paradigm Of The Cosmos!" Stewart Copeland on Youtube

    668: The Number Of The Guy Next Door To The Beast.

    "A random act of kindness; it keeps my heart in shape!" - Late8

  13. #88

    User Info Menu

    Default Re: The Drum Rudiments Thread

    I was forced to give up drumming and my 5-piece acoustic kit a few years ago because we had to move to a smaller place. Since then I shifted my focus to bass playing... until last month. I pulled out my Vic Firth 12" practice pad, bought myself a metronome, a snare stand and a fresh pair of 5As, and all of a sudden found myself spending a good 30 minutes each day practicing paradiddles-double stroke rolls from 80 to 120 bpm in 5 bpm increments for 2 minutes each. I thought I'd start building on chops while saving for an e-kit. Do you guys have suggestions/advice for me to make the most out of my time and effort? Thanks.
    Drums, drums, drums!

    5-pc standard 6-ply birch kit
    13x6 Black Panther Maple Snare
    14" Zildjian New Beat HH
    21" Zildjian Sweet Ride
    18.5" Sabian Chad Smith Signature Crash
    20" 5-star Super Zyn Crash/Ride
    Evans G1 on toms, EC2 on bass
    Evans Genera Dry on Snare
    Pearl Throne, H820w HH Stand, P122-TW DB Pedals
    Gibraltar stands

  14. #89

    User Info Menu

    Default Re: The Drum Rudiments Thread

    Double paradiddles are one of my favorite rudiments, along with flam taps and paradiddlediddles!

  15. #90

    User Info Menu

    Default Re: The Drum Rudiments Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by rubb3rduck View Post
    I was forced to give up drumming and my 5-piece acoustic kit a few years ago because we had to move to a smaller place. Since then I shifted my focus to bass playing... until last month. I pulled out my Vic Firth 12" practice pad, bought myself a metronome, a snare stand and a fresh pair of 5As, and all of a sudden found myself spending a good 30 minutes each day practicing paradiddles-double stroke rolls from 80 to 120 bpm in 5 bpm increments for 2 minutes each. I thought I'd start building on chops while saving for an e-kit. Do you guys have suggestions/advice for me to make the most out of my time and effort? Thanks.
    I'd say you're on the right track. Only thing though is use 2 minutes per rudiment, and go through as many as you can each day, so you don't lose your chops and development continues. Try not to limit yourself to any single rudiment, go through them all if possible, just a minute or two with each at a comfortable tempo like you've been using.
    ZildjianLeague/LP/Aquarian/Mapex/Pearl
    Snares: 4
    RIP- Frank, Wolvie, Les Paul
    Quote Originally Posted by Pearl MCX Man View Post
    I wish I was your wife
    Quote Originally Posted by amdrummer View Post
    if double bass is cheating then so is using two sticks

    Forum Rules
    DrumBum
    No metronome?
    The Rudiments

  16. #91

    User Info Menu

    Default Re: The Drum Rudiments Thread

    I don't know if this has been mentioned yet or not, but...

    once you get the hang of the "diddle" group, start dropping flams in them.

    paradiddle - every 4 "real" strokes - lR L R R rL R L L

    paradiddlediddle - every 6 "real" strokes - lR L R R L L rL R L L R R

    or every 2 strokes on either

    - paradiddle - lR L lR R rL R rL L

    - paradiddlediddle - lR L lR R rL L rL R rL L lR R

  17. #92

    User Info Menu

    Default Re: The Drum Rudiments Thread

    This is a great exercise shown to me by one of my punk drumming mates ages ago, who learned it from one of his uncles. It teaches you not only flam taps, but odd groupings too.

    Ok.

    l/R R, r/L L, l/R R R (flam-tap, flam-tap, flam-tap and a single stroke...think of it as 12,12,123).
    r/L L, l/R R, r/L L L (same thing but mirrored, once again 12,12,123)...so now you have two bars of 7/8 time.
    l/R R, r/L L, l/R R R , r/L L L, l/R R R .... so now you have a 12,12,123,123,123 grouping, which gives you 13/8.

    And now.....reverse the whole lot!

    The whole thing now is:
    l/R R r/L L l/R R R, r/L L l/R R r/L L L, l/R R r/L L l/R R R r/L L L l/R R R [7/8,7/8 & 13/8]
    r/L L l/R R r/L L L, l/R R r/L L l/R R R, r/L L l/R R r/L L L l/R R R r/L L L [7/8,7/8 & 13/8]

    Have fun with it, it messed me up a few times! See what you think, it's a good warm up exercise for me.
    Last edited by Drumbledore; 06-06-2011 at 02:15 PM.
    "...it's the Paradigm Of The Cosmos!" Stewart Copeland on Youtube

    668: The Number Of The Guy Next Door To The Beast.

    "A random act of kindness; it keeps my heart in shape!" - Late8

  18. #93

    User Info Menu

    Default Re: The Drum Rudiments Thread

    Ok. I'm on a rudiment kick today so....Question:

    When doing rudiment practice drills, is it more effective (return on time investment) to play them slow and clean or fast and sloppy. Right now, I'm going with fast and sloppy, thinking I can clean it up in time.

  19. #94

    User Info Menu

    Default Re: The Drum Rudiments Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Drumbledore View Post
    This is a great exercise shown to me by one of my punk drumming mates ages ago, who learned it from one of his uncles. It teaches you not only flam taps, but odd groupings too.

    Ok.

    l/R R, r/L L, l/R R R (flam-tap, flam-tap, flam-tap and a single stroke...think of it as 12,12,123).
    r/L L, l/R R, r/L L L (same thing but mirrored, once again 12,12,123)...so now you have two bars of 7/8 time.
    l/R R, r/L L, l/R R R , r/L L L, l/R R R .... so now you have a 12,12,123,123,123 grouping, which gives you 13/8.

    And now.....reverse the whole lot!

    The whole thing now is:
    l/R R r/L L l/R R R, r/L L l/R R r/L L L, l/R R r/L L l/R R R r/L L L l/R R R [7/8,7/8 & 13/8]
    r/L L l/R R r/L L L, l/R R r/L L l/R R R, r/L L l/R R r/L L L l/R R R r/L L L [7/8,7/8 & 13/8]

    Have fun with it, it messed me up a few times! See what you think, it's a good warm up exercise for me.
    That's a great way to learn complex time signatures, the flams work as an accent to stress the 1's, I'll definetly try it out if I'm ever messing with odd times.

  20. #95

    User Info Menu

    Default Re: The Drum Rudiments Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by NewTricks View Post
    Ok. I'm on a rudiment kick today so....Question:

    When doing rudiment practice drills, is it more effective (return on time investment) to play them slow and clean or fast and sloppy. Right now, I'm going with fast and sloppy, thinking I can clean it up in time.
    Sloooooooow.

    I know it's more boring, but trust me on this one. My job is based around me getting 15 kids playing clean rudiments together .

    Doing it fast will only develop little bad habits that well make it eventually sound cleaner, but in the long run won't help you much at all. If you take it very slow, being very conscious of every little technique that your hand is using, then very gradually build it up, your hand will get stronger so once you get faster you will be using the same techniques your were using when going slower, versus the made up techniques that your hand has do develop to compensate for not being strong enough to play them fast.

    That was a really long sentence, I hope that made sense...


    On a different note, me and my friend (I THINK) made up a rudiment the other day. I say I think because I feel like pretty much every possible rudiment has already been made up and named (have you seen those lists of 700 hybrid rudiments? insane), but I haven't seen this one yet so we're taking dibs hahah.

    Well I guess we actually invented two, the Geocacher and the Evolved Geocacher. The only difference is on the Evolved there is a triple stroke on the accents. Probably the hardest rudiment I've ever tried to do fast, mostly because of the little triple stroke that happens when you go from the last diddle and then the flam all with the same hand. Give it a try!


    Kits:
    -C&C Player Date 13/16/22
    -65' Ludwig Super Classic 13/16/22

    Snares:
    -DW Nickel Over Brass 6.5x14 snare
    -Ludwig Black Galaxy Acrolite 5x14 snare
    -Ludwig 65' Super Classic 5x14 snare
    -Ludwig 64' Pioneer 5x14 snare
    -PDP Classic Wood hoop 6x14 snare

    Rides:
    -Zildjian 22" Constantinople
    -Zildjian 22" Kerope
    -Zildjian 20" Constantinople
    Hats:
    -17" A Medium crash over K custom dark crash

    -DW 9000 pedals

  21. #96

    User Info Menu

    Default Re: The Drum Rudiments Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by isaacvining View Post
    .

    your hand will get stronger so once you get faster you will be using the same techniques your were using when going slower, versus the made up techniques that your hand has do develop to compensate for not being strong enough to play them fast.


    Strength isn't my issue. My right handed brain is my issue.


    Probably the hardest rudiment I've ever tried to do fast, mostly because of the little triple stroke that happens when you go from the last diddle and then the flam all with the same hand. Give it a try!


    Yeah.....maybe later. I'm still struggling with the simple paradiddle with alternating bass drums.

  22. #97

    User Info Menu

    Default Re: The Drum Rudiments Thread

    After playing the drums for most of my life I finally discovered "Stick Control for the Snare Drummer" (I'm sure it's mentioned in here some place). This book was written in 1935 by George Lawrence Stone. I Never took any lessons (wish I had). I wish I'd used this book many years ago. It's helped me tremendously. Anybody just starting out should use it.

  23. #98

    User Info Menu

    Default Re: The Drum Rudiments Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by isaacvining View Post
    Sloooooooow.

    I know it's more boring, but trust me on this one. My job is based around me getting 15 kids playing clean rudiments together .

    I have to do mine slow or else my timing is off on them, especially the paradiddle. I just started playing in sept 2011 and didn't know anything about rudiments or what they were pertaining to the drumset.

    I keep a pair of sticks in my recliner at home so when I'm watching TV at night, I can get a pillow or a rolled up towel and practice my rudiments. I feel this has really helped me learn them. I can finally play several of them by memory and makes me feel I'm accomplishing something.
    Take care and seeya!

    Jim

  24. #99

    User Info Menu

    Default Re: The Drum Rudiments Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by jgraham798 View Post
    I have to do mine slow or else my timing is off on them, especially the paradiddle. I just started playing in sept 2011 and didn't know anything about rudiments or what they were pertaining to the drumset.

    I keep a pair of sticks in my recliner at home so when I'm watching TV at night, I can get a pillow or a rolled up towel and practice my rudiments. I feel this has really helped me learn them. I can finally play several of them by memory and makes me feel I'm accomplishing something.
    Just keep practicing your rudiments...I could do them fine years ago and can still do them now, just not as well. For about 15 years, I was playing with rock and roll bands, and didn't practice the "basics".

    It stinks when you realize you were better when you were 16....

    Hitting them hard again now, you never really lose them, just takes awhile to get back into it.

    Good luck

  25. #100

    User Info Menu

    Default Re: The Drum Rudiments Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by longgun View Post
    Just keep practicing your rudiments...I could do them fine years ago and can still do them now, just not as well. For about 15 years, I was playing with rock and roll bands, and didn't practice the "basics".
    Good luck
    Rock and Roll is my favorite style of music.

    So, do the rudiments not get used in that type of music?

    I watch all types of videos and don't really see the paradiddles....I see the different rolls and some flams.
    Take care and seeya!

    Jim

Tags for this Thread

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •