One of the strategies that my drum teacher gave me is to play a rudiment on say 100 BPM, play it as 8th notes, and then switch to 16th notes. Then back to 8th notes and back again, etc. That really helped me when I first learned how to play a paraddidle.
Gretsch Catalina ash kit
Pork Pie Big Black Brass snare
Paiste Alpha Cymbals
Stock hardware and pedal. Vic Firth 5B sticks.
"...it's the Paradigm Of The Cosmos!" Stewart Copeland on Youtube
668: The Number Of The Guy Next Door To The Beast.
"A random act of kindness; it keeps my heart in shape!" - Late8
Drumbledore,
No, it was your post which was good. Conneticut Half Time is notorious for putting beginning and intermediate drum lines out of step. It's exactly what you brought up except your approach is with the hi hat and bass drum. The effect is exactly the same. You've just changed the context and offered a worthwhile exercise to deal with it. Your point concisely reduced Tom's legthly letter to what it's all about. I thought it was astute of you to recognize a rudimental difficulty and then to translate it to a great exercise for the kit. Recognizing what a drummer is dealing with is one thing, being able to verbalize it and bring it to the table is quite a bit more imo. You're a teacher and it showed here. Better yet, you proved it.
And I'm not going anywhere. I just won't be around as much once again. I had just hoped that some of the drummers here could help me make as much use of the time I had left with the internet with suggestions of sites I should or might want to visit.
Last edited by Riverr1; 01-11-2011 at 12:17 PM.
Thanks man, but it wasn't me that came up with the idea of bass drum and hi-hat together with "Conneticut Half-time", it was one of my drum teachers from a while back, who he himself learned it from another. It still challenges me to this day, I get days where I'm almost through it and all of a sudden I lose it when it goes into the single stroke-7's/drags and ratamacue parts right at the end....really hard to do that with a metronome.
Also, from the same book (The William F. Ludwig Snare Solo book)...."Kit-Kat"....that's a good one to do with the same foot pattern.
If you're looking at Youtube videos, two series of videos I thoroughly recommend......Drum Channel hosted by Terry Bozzio and Vanz Drumming Lessons by Randy Van Patten. You'll never get sick of either of those.
Last edited by Drumbledore; 01-11-2011 at 12:35 PM.
"...it's the Paradigm Of The Cosmos!" Stewart Copeland on Youtube
668: The Number Of The Guy Next Door To The Beast.
"A random act of kindness; it keeps my heart in shape!" - Late8
First, my neighbor has told me that I can piggy back on her wi fi when she is on line. I'm not sure if that is good or bad, but it works.
I've seen the Vanz videos. They are good. The Drumchannel is hosted by DW isn't it?
Ultimately what you are talking about in your post goes back to Stone's and Reed's books. At least how they've come to be used by a lot drummers. An exampe of which is this. Lines 30 and 31 from Stones book:
RRLLRLLLRRLLRLLL
LLRRLRRRLLRRLRRR
Play the top line with your hands, and the bottom line with your feet. If your daring, then switch the playing to right and left side. It's all about getting comfortable with the uncomfortable stickings where everything doesn't start and stop in the typical comfort zone. Marco Minnemann formalized this in his book by calling the different lines Patterns and melodies. This is great stuff for getting comfortable with the awkward patterns at the kit. Once you have it down with unison playing, switch to alternate stickings. That adds a boost to sight reading abilities.
It doesn't matter where or how you came across this, it still identifies where rudimental drumming makes that step from linear playing to non-linear playing. It's that point which separates drummers who practice rudimenhts from those that play the rudiments. There is a big difference between practicing rudiments and using them in your playing. It was your post in this thread that breached that world of difference.
Here's an example of where it all goes, I like this guys videos:
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QusBeehdK9k&feature=related"]YouTube - Explanation of groove in 7 from Vinnie Colaiuta solo on Zildjian Day in New York[/ame]
Last edited by Riverr1; 01-13-2011 at 06:36 AM.
Rudiments are the MOST important concept of percussion. If you have an iphone I definitely recommend the drum library app, I use it everyday. Another good tip to get fast on your rudiments is practice with the butt end of your stick (builds wrist strength) and play alternating diddles for five minutes before you start on rudiments. I find it also helps to play on an object that doesn't allow for any bounce. Another tip my old section leader told me is to pick a rudiment everyday and play it for an hour. Hope I added something worthwhile.
yeah! rockin that vintage snare!
Hey guys,
i found these in a book that came with my KORG beatlab metronome:
Hope they are usefull!
Dusko, all it's missing is the seventeen stroke roll, and that's it, you'd have all the 40 PAS Rudiments! (PAS= Percussion Arts Society) Have fun using as many of them as you possibly can around the set.
"...it's the Paradigm Of The Cosmos!" Stewart Copeland on Youtube
668: The Number Of The Guy Next Door To The Beast.
"A random act of kindness; it keeps my heart in shape!" - Late8
OMG, I just found this thread and I went and downloaded and burned to DVD the 40 rudiments and a bunch of online rudiment incorporating lessons around the kit etc..Also tab reading and music reading in general, and I feel like I am about to embark on learning a new language...
I have been playing around for 3 years or so, and I feel that I have made huge progress by myself, and a lot of what I do, just comes natural to me, like I can hear a song and I will practice it till I get it, with absolutely no knowledge of the rudiments I might be actually using!
Still, I am getting a practice pad and a metronome and finally doing what I have bypassed for soooo long, and doing it because I want to be a better more educated player, and looking forward to the AHA! moments when I realize that I may have been doing some of these exercises all along and not even realized it!
I sometimes think it may be a good idea to find an instructor that will watch me and establish a baseline of where I am at in skill level etc..
What say you guys?
Tama Swingstar-6Piece
14" Wood Snare-
Aquarian Focus X
10" Tom
Aquarian Response 2
12"-13"Toms-
Aquarian Super2 Powerdots
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Aquarian Super Kick2 w/Force2reso
Sabian XS20-Hats
Paiste Alpha 14" Thin Crash
Paiste Alpha 16" Medium Crash
Paiste Alpha 17" Thin Crash
Meinl Amum 17" Power Crash
Paiste Alpha 18" Med.Crash
Paiste Dimensions 18" Ride
Wuhan -18" China
Hey guys I'm learning the rudiments too!
Bottom line: They're the code we speak. If you can't work flexibly with the code, you can't quickly call the troops back, send them forward, and be fluid about your play.
Here's where I'm at:
I mastered RLRRLL, and LRLLRR, and the hard part, is now, where I'm trying to put them together sort of like this RLRRLLLRLLRRR - Is that right? Anyway, if I lose track mentally, the sticks fall out of my hands or something stupid happens, ha ha ha.
This happen to you guys?
It's all about concentration. And practice. Challenging!
Rickkus, that particular rudiment is the "paradiddle-diddle", which, unlike most of the other paradiddle based rudiments, was not really intended as an "alternating rudiment".....ie: go right hand lead, then left hand lead. Still, it is good to try it out as RLRRLL then LRLLRR. However, all other paradiddle rudiments such as the single paradiddle RLRR LRLL (and all it's variations, such as reversed: RRLR LLRL, inward para: RLLR LRRL and the inward-outward para: RLRL LRLR), the double paradiddle RLRLRR LRLRLL, the triple paradiddle RLRLRLRR LRLRLRLL and so on are designed to go from right hand lead to left hand lead.
So maybe try out RLRLRR LRLRLL instead of what your doing, if you're looking at an exercise to work from right-hand lead to left-hand lead. You can also, as an extra challenge, instead of thinking of three pairs of eighth notes....RL RL RR, maybe try the exercise as two groups of triplets each time.....RLR LRR then LRL RLL or even in sixteenth note form (1e+a, 2e+a, 3e+a) try it as RLRL RRLR LRLL. These are some of the ways to get comfortable with it.
Last edited by Drumbledore; 04-27-2011 at 01:24 PM.
"...it's the Paradigm Of The Cosmos!" Stewart Copeland on Youtube
668: The Number Of The Guy Next Door To The Beast.
"A random act of kindness; it keeps my heart in shape!" - Late8
I was forced to give up drumming and my 5-piece acoustic kit a few years ago because we had to move to a smaller place. Since then I shifted my focus to bass playing... until last month. I pulled out my Vic Firth 12" practice pad, bought myself a metronome, a snare stand and a fresh pair of 5As, and all of a sudden found myself spending a good 30 minutes each day practicing paradiddles-double stroke rolls from 80 to 120 bpm in 5 bpm increments for 2 minutes each. I thought I'd start building on chops while saving for an e-kit. Do you guys have suggestions/advice for me to make the most out of my time and effort? Thanks.
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21" Zildjian Sweet Ride
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20" 5-star Super Zyn Crash/Ride
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Double paradiddles are one of my favorite rudiments, along with flam taps and paradiddlediddles!
I'd say you're on the right track. Only thing though is use 2 minutes per rudiment, and go through as many as you can each day, so you don't lose your chops and development continues. Try not to limit yourself to any single rudiment, go through them all if possible, just a minute or two with each at a comfortable tempo like you've been using.
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No metronome?
The Rudiments
I don't know if this has been mentioned yet or not, but...
once you get the hang of the "diddle" group, start dropping flams in them.
paradiddle - every 4 "real" strokes - lR L R R rL R L L
paradiddlediddle - every 6 "real" strokes - lR L R R L L rL R L L R R
or every 2 strokes on either
- paradiddle - lR L lR R rL R rL L
- paradiddlediddle - lR L lR R rL L rL R rL L lR R
This is a great exercise shown to me by one of my punk drumming mates ages ago, who learned it from one of his uncles. It teaches you not only flam taps, but odd groupings too.
Ok.
l/R R, r/L L, l/R R R (flam-tap, flam-tap, flam-tap and a single stroke...think of it as 12,12,123).
r/L L, l/R R, r/L L L (same thing but mirrored, once again 12,12,123)...so now you have two bars of 7/8 time.
l/R R, r/L L, l/R R R , r/L L L, l/R R R .... so now you have a 12,12,123,123,123 grouping, which gives you 13/8.
And now.....reverse the whole lot!
The whole thing now is:
l/R R r/L L l/R R R, r/L L l/R R r/L L L, l/R R r/L L l/R R R r/L L L l/R R R [7/8,7/8 & 13/8]
r/L L l/R R r/L L L, l/R R r/L L l/R R R, r/L L l/R R r/L L L l/R R R r/L L L [7/8,7/8 & 13/8]
Have fun with it, it messed me up a few times! See what you think, it's a good warm up exercise for me.
Last edited by Drumbledore; 06-06-2011 at 02:15 PM.
"...it's the Paradigm Of The Cosmos!" Stewart Copeland on Youtube
668: The Number Of The Guy Next Door To The Beast.
"A random act of kindness; it keeps my heart in shape!" - Late8
Ok. I'm on a rudiment kick today so....Question:
When doing rudiment practice drills, is it more effective (return on time investment) to play them slow and clean or fast and sloppy. Right now, I'm going with fast and sloppy, thinking I can clean it up in time.
Sloooooooow.
I know it's more boring, but trust me on this one. My job is based around me getting 15 kids playing clean rudiments together .
Doing it fast will only develop little bad habits that well make it eventually sound cleaner, but in the long run won't help you much at all. If you take it very slow, being very conscious of every little technique that your hand is using, then very gradually build it up, your hand will get stronger so once you get faster you will be using the same techniques your were using when going slower, versus the made up techniques that your hand has do develop to compensate for not being strong enough to play them fast.
That was a really long sentence, I hope that made sense...
On a different note, me and my friend (I THINK) made up a rudiment the other day. I say I think because I feel like pretty much every possible rudiment has already been made up and named (have you seen those lists of 700 hybrid rudiments? insane), but I haven't seen this one yet so we're taking dibs hahah.
Well I guess we actually invented two, the Geocacher and the Evolved Geocacher. The only difference is on the Evolved there is a triple stroke on the accents. Probably the hardest rudiment I've ever tried to do fast, mostly because of the little triple stroke that happens when you go from the last diddle and then the flam all with the same hand. Give it a try!
Kits:
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Snares:
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-Ludwig Black Galaxy Acrolite 5x14 snare
-Ludwig 65' Super Classic 5x14 snare
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Hats:
-17" A Medium crash over K custom dark crash
-DW 9000 pedals
Strength isn't my issue. My right handed brain is my issue.
Yeah.....maybe later. I'm still struggling with the simple paradiddle with alternating bass drums.Probably the hardest rudiment I've ever tried to do fast, mostly because of the little triple stroke that happens when you go from the last diddle and then the flam all with the same hand. Give it a try!
After playing the drums for most of my life I finally discovered "Stick Control for the Snare Drummer" (I'm sure it's mentioned in here some place). This book was written in 1935 by George Lawrence Stone. I Never took any lessons (wish I had). I wish I'd used this book many years ago. It's helped me tremendously. Anybody just starting out should use it.
I have to do mine slow or else my timing is off on them, especially the paradiddle. I just started playing in sept 2011 and didn't know anything about rudiments or what they were pertaining to the drumset.
I keep a pair of sticks in my recliner at home so when I'm watching TV at night, I can get a pillow or a rolled up towel and practice my rudiments. I feel this has really helped me learn them. I can finally play several of them by memory and makes me feel I'm accomplishing something.
Take care and seeya!
Jim
Just keep practicing your rudiments...I could do them fine years ago and can still do them now, just not as well. For about 15 years, I was playing with rock and roll bands, and didn't practice the "basics".
It stinks when you realize you were better when you were 16....
Hitting them hard again now, you never really lose them, just takes awhile to get back into it.
Good luck
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