What's wrong with the best drummers in the world?
in the hope of recieving some powerful influences for my drumming i tried to track down some relatively technically intensive stuff by some of the best drummers in the world eg. mike mangini, thomas lang and dave weckl but it seems that these drummers never actually go much further then doing the necessary in bands which is understandable and its good that they have that discipline but come on, these guys need to vent what they can do in some bands that inspire a better and more vast display of their drumming ability. Dave weckl does kinda but falls back on very generic jazz fusion structures and mike mangini played for annihlator and in terms of drumming, that band requires basic basic stuff, also thomas lang has released one solo album that i cant get hold of, its sad to think that the most we will hear is from drummers like mike portnoy who is brave enough to get really avant garde with standard amount taught to him at berklee. pls give some intelligent reasons for this
Re: What's wrong with the best drummers in the world?
sorry to bring this back but i was looking at it and... the faact that they have that disipline makes them even better. i was thinking about discipline in drumming and i was bored and saw this... so do u guys agree that discipline is a good thing or bad? i think its good as a drummer is a musician and needs to play like a muciscian... even peart can play a song where he justs keeps time... i tthink this brings up some good points... what do you guys think?
Re: What's wrong with the best drummers in the world?
Discipline is an absolute necessity. Having great chops doesn't mean that you're going to exhibit them in everything you play. You go to any drum clinic by a big name drummer and you'll see things that they never do with their bands.....very simply because the music doesn't call for it. They know how to accentuate and enhance the music, without being flamboyant.
It's all about being a musician, not showing what you can do to impress people.
My opinion of course. :icon_mrgreen:
Re: What's wrong with the best drummers in the world?
I sort of understood what the initial post was about and, I confess, I used to think something of the same. Buddy Rich was probaly one of the few you could count on hearing play his limit all of the time. I would get recordings of all the greats and usually be disappointed in that I didn't hear as much from the drummers as I thought I would. But, I was young and naive and didn't understand the theory and structure of music. I learned and I learned that discipline is the single most attribute that relates directly to the longevity of any Artist. Because of what I learned, I can enjoy myself immensely today playing with my band and helping each of them to play their best. BTW, I thought I was straight forward and pulled no punches. Let me say that I'm glad I wasn't on the receiving end of what Tom had to say. good for you, Tom.
Re: What's wrong with the best drummers in the world?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Norske
Discipline is an absolute necessity. Having great chops doesn't mean that you're going to exhibit them in everything you play. You go to any drum clinic by a big name drummer and you'll see things that they never do with their bands.....very simply because the music doesn't call for it. They know how to accentuate and enhance the music, without being flamboyant.
It's all about being a musician, not showing what you can do to impress people.
My opinion of course. :icon_mrgreen:
You said it all, Norske...just because you can do the flamboyant stuff doesn't mean you have to do it all the time...believe it or not, 99 percent of the time, drummers do the simple stuff no one else notices--unless they screw it up big-time and everyone notices! And that's the time you don't want to be noticed!
Re: What's wrong with the best drummers in the world?
you can have the chops but they must to have feel to win me
Re: What's wrong with the best drummers in the world?
i agree that discipline is important. i think sometime the disciplled drummer is better than the showoffy drummer. this brings up and interesting debate dosent it? and i like how ficobaz said he used to have that menatality... its interesting how our stlye changes.
Re: What's wrong with the best drummers in the world?
Just a thought. in two of my last three auditions, I was told at just afterwards, "We like what you did, we'll keep you on file, but we've gone with **** at the moment, (The guy showing his flashy chops.) Two weeks later, I got the call, "Andy, can you join us, the other guy can't play in time and won't just groove when we need him to." In both cases I did, one was a residency that lasted 5 years, and the other was for a cruise band that took me all round the world.
Not 100% sure this is totally relevant, but it sort of fits the topic somewhere.
Andy
Re: What's wrong with the best drummers in the world?
I think everyone here has a good point in what they were saying, and I'm somewhere in the middle of it. No, you can't go all out all the time showing off everything you've got back to back for the entire duration of every song. No, I don't think most of the "best drummers" that I've heard do enough within the limits of being musical about it, considering their capabilities. Of course you can always have the argument of if you can't do it in songs then why do it at all... fun or solos, but is that really necessary for everyone else? Not really.
My final though is: I don't listen to all the guys that have been listed on this thread, and I do think a few more could be listed in this thread. Of the guys I listen to, I don't think all of them are playing to their capability within good musical taste. There a re few that do, but I think more people could do so as well.
Re: What's wrong with the best drummers in the world?
I think Tom's intial point is really a good one. New players overplay. I did it, we all do it, and it seems impressive. (I still overplay to some extent cause I can't help myself).
Some of you know I'm a teacher and my band does a charity concert with kids performing each year. This year I'm letting a kid other than my son play, and my drums no less. He's only been playing like half a year and he has some natural talent. Unfortunately, he's really loud and overplays. He's starting to take advice. But, the other kids notice his playing.
In contrast, my son is anti-flashy in everything he does. He doesn't brag or show off in school, doesn't really talk about the fact that he plays multiple instruments, etc... My kid happens to be a decent drummer for his age, no prodigy or anything, but if he keeps going he'll be solid as an adult. Unfortunately he goes unnoticed because he doesn't do tons of fills or play really loud. He's playing harder stuff than the other kid, but trying to play it clean.
It's unfortunate that most people take style over substance. There's even the split between technique and art. Mike Portnoy is just crazy to watch sometimes, but I saw a youtube video of him soloing at NAMM and wasn't that amazed. It was fast, etc.., but I didn't find it nearly as interesting as NP's solos.
Re: What's wrong with the best drummers in the world?
if u wanna see some awesome refreshing drumming style look at tomas from meshuggah im in love with this guy
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BatXT196-Qw"]YouTube - TOMAS HAAKE AT DRUMMERLIVE 2006 HQ PT. 1[/ame]
Re: What's wrong with the best drummers in the world?
Think of it this way, if these guys couldn't play well in a band context, we wouldn't know who they are and they wouldn't be "the best drummers in the world".
That said, Keith Moon is completely crazy, but completely amazing, so if you're looking at something to marvel at, watch The Who.
Re: What's wrong with the best drummers in the world?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
keysanddrums
Think of it this way, if these guys couldn't play well in a band context, we wouldn't know who they are and they wouldn't be "the best drummers in the world".
That said, Keith Moon is completely crazy, but completely amazing, so if you're looking at something to marvel at, watch The Who.
That's what I mean by *not getting the Moon thing*..I don't see amazing when I see him, and how he's a *legend* is beyond me. All a matter of opinion I guess.
Re: What's wrong with the best drummers in the world?
Re: What's wrong with the best drummers in the world?
Ah yes I love Meshuggah!
I'm trying to make a poster of Tomas, with information and pictures.
Re: What's wrong with the best drummers in the world?
this thread just came outta no where huh?
I wish I could employ the same raising the dead abilities to my love life.......
Re: What's wrong with the best drummers in the world?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Northern Redneck
Listen to some Niacin
I don't mind nutri-grain, but I generally don't eat cereal