Question about ghost notes on snare.

Hey folks,

I'm a guitarist flirting with drums. Enough to have bought a €1000 V-drum kit a few years back. I was making some progress with it but then gave it to the drummer in a band I was in so he could practise at home.

Anyway, I've got it back now and I'm starting to use it again and also doing drum programming at home. I wrote a blog post gathering together a lot of rules of thumb to help me learn some of the much used principles of drumming (I won't link to it, having read the rules) and the more I learn the more I add so others doing the same type of searching will hopefully find it useful too.

I'm looking into ghost notes and when to use them. I understand they're low velocity snare hits that are more felt than heard.

My question is:
Would ghost notes on the snare be used as an alternative to a hit on the hi hat.

For example, If I were to play 16ths on the hi hat with a back beat on the snare it would go:


sn ||----------2----------------4-------||
hh || 1 e & a----e & a 3 e & a----e & a ||

adding in ghost notes * might be:

sn ||---*-----2---*---*-------4---*----||
hh || 1---& a---e---a----e & a---e---a-||

Would that be considered a normal use of ghost notes?

(*please don't say play whatever you want on any piece of the kit. I understand the whole experimenting is good, I'm just looking to get a few basics to work off before taking it further).

Thanks!

I wouldn't so much say that they just replace hi-hat hits. To me, they're just filler notes. It's a good way to fill out the space and add extra umph to the phrase. They turn boring beats into exciting one. But, the example you posted is a good example. It becomes easier to add ghost notes when you really feel the music if you know what I mean.

Thank you.
Much appreciated.

I am loving the drum programming.

Can't wait to try it out on the V-drums tomorrow.
Learning is fun! :D

Ghost notes typically wouldn't replace hits on the hats or ride but rather add to the time- keeping hits on the snare. Easiest is to think of them as part of a roll starting and alternating with the hats and snare and ending on the snare. Every snare hit but the last is a light hit or a "ghost."

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Tomred

Thank you.
Much appreciated.

I am loving the drum programming.

Can't wait to try it out on the V-drums tomorrow.
Learning is fun! :D

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drum programming = another drummer out of work ....

Quote:

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Originally Posted by atomcorr2

drum programming = another drummer out of work ....

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Nope, one man band! plus vocalist :)

My previous drum programming skills (where I've little idea as to what I'm doing) can be heard on this demo.



Currently using that tune to try out the new techniques I've picked up for drumming.

Hope to start playing live in the next 3 months and if possible, I'll be using a real drummer but in Ireland, where I'm from, good (even bad!) drummers are few and far between unfortunately.

Sounded great Tomred! Great project you got going on.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Russ

Sounded great Tomred! Great project you got going on.

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Aw shucks, thank you. You've brightened up an otherwise rainy and grey day.

\m/

Yeah, sounds pretty good Tomred. As someone who plays kit drums (as well as all the other percussion stuff I do) I also got really into the whole thing of drum machine programming, which is kind of an art onto itself when you want to adjust all the velocities of various snare and hi-hat notes, etc. Then when mucking around with old Cubase and Reason programs, and after learning basic piano theory (by then I had started getting into tuned percussion, hence the theory side of things), because I could step-write drum patterns fairly quickly, it wasn't too long before I got the handle of step-writing and piecing together other instrument parts. In fact, whenever I'm doing a lesson and some kid asks what's the reason why we're going over a relatively easy drum pattern (usually because I'm sitting there knowing that their timing still needs a bit of work) sometimes I'll not only program in a 1/4 note cowbell click, but on my Roland drum machine I can usually write a bass pattern right on the spot as I'm conversing with them, then I'll turn around and say "Ok Sport, see if you can play along with this, then we can start to move onto the next thing, otherwise we're back to working more on your timing." That's when they realise I'm always a few steps ahead of them, lol.

I wish I could comment Tomred but I don't know too much about ghost notes like you guys mention. I always thought a ghost note now I could be wrong. Is hitting the snare close to the edge of the drum so it does not seem so loud as to hitting in the center. Does that sound right. Please correct me if not. Thanks by the Tomred you do sound great.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Pearl MCX Man

I wish I could comment Tomred but I don't know too much about ghost notes like you guys mention. I always thought a ghost note now I could be wrong. Is hitting the snare close to the edge of the drum so it does not seem so loud as to hitting in the center. Does that sound right. Please correct me if not. Thanks by the Tomred you do sound great.

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Not necessarily. They are basically just very light taps on the drum head. A lot of drummers play them closer to the edge just because it's easier to get a little less volume there. But a good drummer can play the faintest of ghost notes anywhere on the head. It takes a lot of practice to be able to mix really faint ghost notes with ear splitting rim shots.

personally i write out grace notes like this but everyone has a there own way

i find students understand the concept of louder to softer with this character ">"
> >
1 + 2 + 3 + 4 +



i will let you in on a little trick i teach students

volume comes from distance and wrist action ...'from the distance the stick is from the head" ...short distance will have less energy producing a quite note ...long distance eg. the whip will result in a accent

Thanks for the tips itchie.

That's an interesting pattern there. Traditionally ghost notes are played under the hi hat work that already exists.

However, I've heard other drummers go ahead and play some interesting patterns using ghost notes as sort of implying a faster pattern. Gavin Harrison comes to mind for me, he described an idea in one of his clinics of riding on a quarter note pattern on the ride and then adding ghost notes on the snare to "imply" that 8th notes were being played.

Here's an overly-simplified example that would use the idea. This is a standard quarter note "Money Beat" (Kick 1 and 3, Snare 2 and 4) with ghost notes on the "and" of each beat implying an 8th note pattern.


sn||--*-X-*---*-X-*-||
hh||X---X---X---X---||
kd||X-------X-------||
----1e+a2e+a3e+a4e+a
Uppercase X = standard hit; * = ghost note

This is a somewhat advanced use of ghost notes. Again, typically you don't see ghost notes used this way, you would typically have a ride (or hi-hat) pattern (standard 8th note, jazz ride, shuffle, etc) and play ghost notes under or between notes of the pattern.

Thanks for the compliments and tips folks. Much appreciated, I've learnt a fair bit more and found new topics to search out and explore thanks to the great recommendations, shared wisdom and examples here.

Good luck on your journey both practicing and finding a drummer, Tom. Let us know of any new updates with your discoveries and training.