i posted a link sometime back let me try and find it......
If we can I would appreciate a thread containing what is needed to mic and record drums/play out with. I have read alot os scattered info on here but not a precise collection of gear needed to complete this process. I think many will find the info useful. So Obviuoslly we need a drumset, mics, cords from the mics...... What next?
\ My interest is in recording but mainly I have in mind to run my mics to a mixer for myself and to wear headphones and control the volume. Not to mention not take up all the input space on the bands gear. Just feed the main out from the mixer to their PA.
So please post the order in which you run your mics to gear(mixers, eq's, amps,pa's) and the order to record. Thank you!
i posted a link sometime back let me try and find it......
E Drums !! !
There are no loud instruments just loud players !
Protect Your Hearing !!!!
Step 1. mics
Step 2. XLR cables
Step 3. inputs
A. The behringer you have is fine. There are two XLR outs on the back
Step 4. Audio/digital converter
A. With your Behringer I would look at something like the m-audio firewire ( No latency with firewire) or M-Box
Step 5. Computer
A. The software with A/D devies will let you record and do limited mixing as you will have only two channels coming in, however a lot of the mixing will be with your submixer.
Studio build up thread:
http://www.drumchat.com/showthread.p...dio-16527.html
yeah, should work fine. It looks like submixer has two XLR outputs which would go into the mixer for the PA. Cool thing is you can adjust your kit prior to the PA mix. You and the sound engineer are going top have fun fighting each other over db levels.
Studio build up thread:
http://www.drumchat.com/showthread.p...dio-16527.html
computer, audacity, and a stereo usb mic
ZildjianLeague/LP/Aquarian/Mapex/Pearl
Snares: 4
RIP- Frank, Wolvie, Les Paul
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DrumBum
No metronome?
The Rudiments
Russ I always enjoy your direct approach to the point, well put!
i forgot to mention you can get all that for around 200, assuming its a computer from a thrift shop, and the stereo usb mic is an mxl
ZildjianLeague/LP/Aquarian/Mapex/Pearl
Snares: 4
RIP- Frank, Wolvie, Les Paul
Forum Rules
DrumBum
No metronome?
The Rudiments
I am now looking at interfaces and recording programs, Any that you prefer over another? I was looking at the basic $30 interfaces from MF. and a few $100 recording programs.
You guys seem to skip alot of things...
Look, Do you think you can make your drums sound good by just controlling the microphone gain and a 3-way parametric EQ? (the standard functions on each channel of a mixer)
If you're recording, you could say that is all you need, but then you would have to record each channel as an individual track.
What you seem to forget, are gates, limiters and compressors (most commonly used on drums) and other effects. If you record each channel as a different track and you edit trough software, you can add these using plug-ins in your software (EG Presonus Studio One, Cubase, ProTools, ...)
For live use, you have to have the hardware units, and you need to connect them trough the inserts on your mixer.
Why use them?
Gate:
Reduce the snare effect on your toms, or the sustain of any drum.
Compressor:
Not always used, may enhance the sound if used correctly
Limiter:
Prevents peaks in the incoming signal, when you accidently hit a microphone with one of your sticks for example. Not always used either, more used between your mixer and amplifier, to protect the amplifiers from peaks and to make sure things don't get too loud.
You can also add reverb or echo's and loads of other stuff.
Of course, you can do well without all of this, but if you ask what you need to record drums, I wouldn't want to miss any of these.
As I see it:
Live:
Microphones: (with some microphone preferences)
1. Kick: SM91/D112
2. Snare top: SM57/E604
3. Snare bottom: Beta57a/E604
4. Hi-hats: SM81/AKG535
5. Tom 1: E604
6. Tom 2: E604
7. Tom ?: E604
8. Overhead Left: SM81/AKG535
9. Overhead Right: SM81/AKG535
All the cords go to a stageblock and then to the mixer...
Inserts: (also depend on the quality of the drumset and the location's acoustics, lets say we have a good location and a fair kit.)
1. Kick: /
2. Snare top: Gate & Compressor
3. Snare bottom: Gate
4. Hi-hats: /
5-7. Toms: Gate
8-9. Overheads: /
Then everythings goes trough your speaker management system to the amps.
Recording: (I don't have a preference list here, I don't know enough of recording)
1. Kick
2. Snare top
3. Snare bottom
4. Hi-hats
5. Tom 1
6. Tom 2
7. Tom ?
8. Overhead Left
9. Overhead Right
Then you have loads of posibillities, first special preamps, then series of gates, compressors, wathever, then into a A/D device, or everything stays Analog and you use a mixer, or you put everything directly into an A/D device and edit via the computer, ...
The posibillities are endless.
Easiest would be just plugging the cords into an A/D device, eg Presonus Firepod, and record all the channels as different tracks in Cubase or something alike, then add gates or wathever as plugins.
As for having your own mixer next to you and only sending a stereochannel to the front mixer: Don't.
Why? Because you, as drummer, have no clue how your kit sounds in the room if you mix it from behind the kit.
If you really want to do it yourself, ask someone to do the soundcheck for you (play the drums) and mix your drums on the frontmixer.
Don't forget that the sound you hear on stage, is also greatly influenced, if not determined, by the monitormix.
Last edited by Bafke; 09-08-2009 at 01:47 AM.
Bafke
You make good points, but ft sounded from his post was wanting the basics. If ft likes we can discuss the plugins on each of my 14 individual tracks on my pro tools rig and where we role of the EQ and cut frequency levels, which track we are side chaining and the types of pads we are using on our mics. And for that matter we can start a thread on appropriate acoustic treatment for rooms and the best types of iso floors.
ft gave a specific question on a basic way to mic a kit. IMHO, all of the others things you discuss while very important would be trying to run before you someone knows how to walk.
Also at the time ft was looking at a submixer to use that had two xlr outputs, therefore we were trying to mold the responses to the equipment he had.
Last edited by nucjd; 09-08-2009 at 11:08 AM.
Studio build up thread:
http://www.drumchat.com/showthread.p...dio-16527.html
The idea of this thread was to have a list of needed things to complete this process. I am by no means aware of the proper needed knowledge and equiptment. I wanted to have a thread here with your opinions and expertise. And the idea of the live mixer was mostly to the point that the guys I'm playing with don't have one nor do alot of the places we will be playing at. I know I am just starting to get my feet wet, and it's all trial and error. I know of compressors and limiter, preamps and such, Beyond that I am still just trying to learn.
i think a good knowledge of which mics to use, angles and distances from the drums, is needed more than anything. some type of acoustic treatment in your room, whether it be redirection of the sound or proofing the room completely, is needed to get the most out of the mics, mixers, preamps, and drums themselves. i mean yeah of course you can get all the stuff you need; but it will be nice to know methods, theories, and the fundamentals of live sound or recording.
ZildjianLeague/LP/Aquarian/Mapex/Pearl
Snares: 4
RIP- Frank, Wolvie, Les Paul
Forum Rules
DrumBum
No metronome?
The Rudiments
I have taken everything posted here to heart and been doing alot of research based on what you guys have said. It turns out that the band only wants to run mics through the PA and just use their own amps for shows, no sound man at all.
As far as home recording goes I have decided to get an 8 channel input interface and a resonabale recording program.This is all for fun really and to get my song out to family and friends.
I am currently looking at a M-audio fast track ultra 8R usb interface, Still undecided on the computer program though will have to do more research.
Cool ft. Post up your stuff and equipment when you get it. Not a huge fan of USB secondary to latency issues but it is quite subtle. I prefer firewire interfaces.
Studio build up thread:
http://www.drumchat.com/showthread.p...dio-16527.html
Hey nucjd, i was doing alot of research on the difference and it didn't seem to be that big of a deal in a small home operation, I also was about $200 cheaper for the usb vs the firewire. It will still be a month or so until i make the purchase so i will continue to research the facts and then get some pics and video's up here. I appreciate all your input it has helped me alot. F/T
yeah ft. Should not be too much of a problem. I was noticing a lot of latency when I midi trigger as well through BFD2 and record acoustically. I have to adjust the buffer and that will handle it.
Studio build up thread:
http://www.drumchat.com/showthread.p...dio-16527.html
Thanks for the tip! All this is like learning a new metal detector(alot of curves) once I get a few practices runs down I'm sure I'll be full of new questions,lol.
I got my mic cords today and WOW! So many angle and adjustments to choose from, They sound great though. I deffinetly need better headphones(mine are from the 70's) they are old stereo phones that have had their fare share of abuse. I went with XLR connectors on both ends. I am also impressed with the clarity of the pencil condensor mics, I can hear conversations in the other end of the house with the door closed. I bought the lower end CAD 7 pcs mic set.
Hi FT
I am going through the same process, so I look forward to hearing some results from you.
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my recoriding setup
1. stageworks drum mics
2. xlrs to behringer eurorack 12 channel mixer
3. mixer output to fostex mr-8hd
4. usb cable to computer for mixing with adobe audition
i record guitars with mics strait to the recorder along with a metronome click and do the drums afterward
arnold for president!!
I really like the idea of the metronome, Do you edit it out later? Cuban I hope to have a sound clip soon can't wait to get the gear. F/T
my fostex recorder has a metronome button on it. it doesnt get recorded with the guitar track only plays through the headphones
also if you do any guitar recording i would suggest doing 2 tracks for the rhythm guitar and panning them left and right as opposed to micing 1 track with 2 mics and panning left and right. also you should use a stereo chorus amp and put the mic between the 2 speakers. this way i get the best full range rhythm guitar tracks ever! any solo tracks i think i would record 1 track with 2 mics and maybe use a single speaker amp with no chorus. i dont do many solo or lead tracks with the stuff i record tho
arnold for president!!
check out the Yamaha N12 mixer - it works like a normal 12 input analogue mixer so even drummer can use it easily :P
but it has a firewire out and specific cubase software (yamaha now own Steinberger) to record 12 tracks simultaneousley into your puter...
this is the best simple home studio computer recording device I've seen so far
Then I would suggest getting Shure PG mics for your kit. They are cheap yet quite good.
PG52 on kick, PG56s on snare and toms and PG81s on Overhead
the PG56s come with a rim clip so you don't need stands everywhere...
that set up would give you about 8 channels for drums and two stereo channels extra for a guitar and bass pod - just right for laying those bed tracks
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