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Thread: Only 8 Inputs - Best Mic Set Up?

  1. #1

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    Default Only 8 Inputs - Best Mic Set Up?

    I am looking to mic my drum kit in a rehearsal studio to record some drum
    tracks for rough demos and my kit has 4 toms, 2 snares, kick, hi-hat and 9 cymbals.

    However, my small mixing unit has just 8 inputs - 4 XLR inputs and 4 Jack inputs.

    Could anyone recommend the best way to mic the kit as I am unable to mic each component?

    I am also looking at using (Red 5 mics ), does anyone here use them?

    Thanks in advance.
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  2. #2

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    Default Re: Only 8 Inputs - Best Mic Set Up?

    I will do my best at explaining what I have learned, your 4 XLR's can be your kick drum snare and high hats(most common drums to accent). You could use the 4th on for an overhead to pick up the rest of the kit. As far as the 4 jacks go those are mono connections instead of stereo(XLR) so each one will feed the sound to either left or right channel(kinda like when you turn the pan left or right) So in reality you could have your tom mics on them to and then when you play them they would sound like they are shifting from left to right. It is also possible to do this with the (XLR) inputs by turning the pan full left or full right on its channel. What mixer are you using(model)? What mics? What is the media in which you are recording to(CD, TAPE, or PC/DIGITAL/MP3 format)? I hope this helps. F/T

  3. #3

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    Default Re: Only 8 Inputs - Best Mic Set Up?

    Hi FT

    Many thanks for such a helpful first reply.

    To answer your questions:
    The mixer is a Soundcraft Spirit Folio Notepad, so pretty basic but I got it to be portable and at a very good price.

    The mics are likely to be the Red 5 set with one extra mic.

    They are suggesting I mic as follows:
    4 x RVD9 dynamic mics to mic the toms (XLR-JACK) - As you have also said.
    1 x RVD1 mic on kick (XLR-XLR)
    1 x RV4 mic on hi-hat (XLR-XLR)
    1 x RV4 mic position between the 2 snares (XLR-XLR)
    1 x RV4 mic as an overhead mic positioned above the cymbals (XLR-XLR)

    I have a Zoom MRS-1608 16 track consol to record to with built in CD, although I can transfer via play back
    directly to the PC where I have just the basic Audacity and Cool Edit right now.

    As you can tell, I am at the entry door to recording right now so have it all to learn and appreaciate any help.
    PROUD TO BE ENDORSED BY DUALLIST PEDALS
    Drums: Phil Collins Pearl DLX | Pink Floyd DW Exotic Bird's Eye | Natal Bubinga Custom Fusion | Cymbals: DIRIL & UFIPeDrums: 2Box DrumIt 5
    BACK BEATING DRUMMING BLOG ||| PINK FLOYD DW KIT ||| PHIL COLLINS PEARL KIT
    www.graham-collins.com/drummer ||| www.pinkfloyddrums.com ||| PHIL COLLINS PEARL KIT

  4. #4

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    Default Re: Only 8 Inputs - Best Mic Set Up?

    I am a newb myself and also appreciate any help I can get. I viewed all the equiptment you have and think you are on your way to having alot of fun. Keep us posted! F/T

  5. #5

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    Default Re: Only 8 Inputs - Best Mic Set Up?

    1 mic in the kick and two condenser overheads.

  6. #6

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    Default Re: Only 8 Inputs - Best Mic Set Up?

    FT, you're messing it up a little, I know you're just trying to help in any way you can, and that sure is appreciated, but when you start saying things like XLR is stereo, you're really giving someone wrong information.

    I don't want to offend you, and I'm not an expert myself, but I do know what's going here and I'll explain.

    First, some basics:

    XLR: connector type, commonly used for mono balanced audio signals.(e.g. microphone cable)
    monojack: connector type, commonly used for mono unbalanced audio signals (e.g. guitar cable)

    Balanced - Unbalanced cable, the difference.

    Unbalanced cables are used to transport a line signal. Line signals have a high impedance and are less sensitive to interference. line signals are produced by guitars, cd players and all other sound producing equipment, except for microphones and turntables. We'll skip the part on the turntables, since that is not important here.
    Balanced cables are used to transport low impedance signals, such as microphone signals.

    I can give the full explenation as to what exacly is the difference in cable between balanced and unbalanced, but that's not what this is about.

    The point is, you cant simply connect a microphone to a line input. You would have to turn the gain all the way up to receive a signal and it will be distorted. Vice verca wont work either, your microphone inputs would get overloaded by a line signal, and then you're destroing your mixer.

    You can actually only connect 4 microphones to the mixers.

    If you have any further questions, just ask.

    (Bytheway, since you are talking about condensor microphones, those need 48V phantom power, the mixer can deliver that, so it is not a problem, but I thought I'd better mention it. If you would be using an older ribbon mic (probably not, but still), you'll have to be carefull not to destroy it by giving it 48v phantom power. Modern non-condensor mics can handle it, but older mics might not survive.)
    Last edited by Bafke; 09-02-2009 at 12:47 PM.

  7. #7

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    Default Re: Only 8 Inputs - Best Mic Set Up?

    Bafke, I am not offended by you view on the matter. I reread cubans post and realized he said jacks when i was thinking mono channels like 7/8, 8/9 and so on. Though I am confused on how XLR inputs are mono(The literature I've been reading suggests their stereo). So please clear up the matter for me. I understand the difference bettween balanced and unbalanced so no need to drive that nail, Thanks for the info!
    Last edited by fumbled time; 09-01-2009 at 04:47 PM.

  8. #8

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    Default Re: Only 8 Inputs - Best Mic Set Up?

    XLR connectors have 3 pins:


    Pin 1 - Shield
    Pin 2 - Hot (positive)
    Pin 3 - Cold (negative)

    The Hot pole is the actual audio signal, the cold pole is that same signal, but inverted. The shield shields the signal. (also called the 'mass').
    As you might know, this is the priniple of balanced audio cables. Any distortions will affect the original and the inverted signal. When the signals are merged, the distorions will disappear.
    (It is a little more complicated then that, but that is what it does basicly)
    This means that an XLR cable is only suited for one single channel, not 2 different channels (stereo).

    You COULD however use an XLR cable to send a stereo channel, just like a stereojack, but then your cable wouldn't be balanced anymore.
    Last edited by Bafke; 09-02-2009 at 04:12 AM.

  9. #9

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    Default Re: Only 8 Inputs - Best Mic Set Up?

    1 stereo head or 2 mono overheads, 2 kick mics for each bass drum used, 1 tom mic between every two toms, top and bottom snare mics. as long as you have something catching the sound waves from the right locations, you dont need some multi thousand dollar setup, just enough inputs. you can save 2 inputs on your mixer by plugging your overhead(s) into your computer and mixing them on a seperate interface on there. double mic'd drums will sound more full than single, but its not needed for all of them. let a bit of reverb/chorus take care of any holes in your sound from weak channels. do you have sufficient preamps?
    ZildjianLeague/LP/Aquarian/Mapex/Pearl
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pearl MCX Man View Post
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    Quote Originally Posted by amdrummer View Post
    if double bass is cheating then so is using two sticks

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  10. #10

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    Default Re: Only 8 Inputs - Best Mic Set Up?

    Thanks for the clarafication guys, Please clarify a little more, Question: If you have a channel on a mixer that you can adjust the pan to the left or right versus a channel like 7/8, 9/10 that are mono channels (7) left, (8) right, (9) left, (10) right doesn't that mean the channels that can be panned (L or R) are stereo being that they can be centered to both sides? Thanks for your views and comments It's greatly appreciated! F/T
    Last edited by fumbled time; 09-02-2009 at 09:41 AM.

  11. #11

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    Default Re: Only 8 Inputs - Best Mic Set Up?

    No, the pan function on mono channels can be used to send that channel more to the left master output or to the right.

    example: you are mixing a show and you have 2 overheads on the drums, and you want to give a stereo feel for the cimbals those microphones are placed to pick up. Pan the left overhead a little bit to the left, so it will be more noticable trough the speakers located on the left, and do the same for the right overhead. That way you create a stereo image.

    The source (microphone) is not stereo, but just a mono channel, but the mixer output is. If the pan is in the middle or if there is no pan knob, you divide the mono signal equally over both outputs, controlling the pan knob is deciding wich output channel contains more of that mono channel you are panning.

    Panning a stereo channel is different. There you are indeed mixing two channels with one fader, panning to the left will decrease the volume of the right channel on the inputs and vice versa.

    Alot of manufacturers say they sell a 10 channel mixer, when actually you only have 6 mono channels and 4 stereo channels. Those stereo channels are often totally useless.
    Last edited by Bafke; 09-02-2009 at 12:59 PM.

  12. #12

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    Default Re: Only 8 Inputs - Best Mic Set Up?

    I now see what you are explaining and I was misrepresenting, The whole time I was meaning the output not the input being stereo. I understand/understood that if you are jacked into one channel that is mono, It is the output that comes out stereo. So we were in agreement the whole time just looking at it a little differently( I had not clarifted input versus output.) F/T
    Last edited by fumbled time; 09-02-2009 at 06:49 PM.

  13. #13

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    Default Re: Only 8 Inputs - Best Mic Set Up?

    i have no clue about mixer settings, i would let someone else turn the knobs while you play for a pretty honest soundcheck
    ZildjianLeague/LP/Aquarian/Mapex/Pearl
    Snares: 4
    RIP- Frank, Wolvie, Les Paul
    Quote Originally Posted by Pearl MCX Man View Post
    I wish I was your wife
    Quote Originally Posted by amdrummer View Post
    if double bass is cheating then so is using two sticks

    Forum Rules
    DrumBum
    No metronome?
    The Rudiments

  14. #14

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    Default Re: Only 8 Inputs - Best Mic Set Up?

    Just my $0.02:

    Was your room designed by an accoustics engineer?

    If the answer is yes:

    You'll need a couple of omnidirectional mics, check the graphs those should have a flat 20Hz-20KHz spectrum input, if its not flat just check your accoustic room spectrum. Use only XLR.

    If the answer is no, depends on your setup, at least I'd say:

    2 x snares
    1 x hats
    1 x kick
    2 x toms
    2 x overhead for cymbals
    Tama Royalstar: 14x22" Kick, 16x16" Floor Tom, 8x12" Tom, 9x13" Tom, 5x14" Snare

    Zildjian A Custom: 20" Medium Ride, 18" Medium Crash, 16" Crash and 14" Hi-hats

    Sabian B8 Pro: 18" China, 12" Splash

    Soultone Extreme: 14" Hi-hats

    LP Cowbell

    Alesis DM6 USB eDrumkit

    VALTIS Rock en espaņol

  15. #15

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    Default Re: Only 8 Inputs - Best Mic Set Up?

    only use your mixer for playback

    go xlr straight into the back of your zoom recorder(the speakon inputs)..its that easy


    all of these inputs are xlr and 1/4 jack

    do i need to draw a diagram or will that do?
    Last edited by itchie; 12-02-2009 at 05:09 AM.

  16. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by itchie View Post
    only use your mixer for playback

    go xlr straight into the back of your zoom recorder(the speakon inputs)..its that easy


    all of these inputs are xlr and 1/4 jack

    do i need to draw a diagram or will that do?
    You'll just need to clarify the 'speakon' part :p Speakon is used for powerfull audio signals, like between the poweramp and the speaker.

    I guess you wanted to say 'neutrik', the brand, or xlr trs-jack(stereojack) combo input?

  17. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bafke View Post
    You'll just need to clarify the 'speakon' part :p Speakon is used for powerfull audio signals, like between the poweramp and the speaker.

    I guess you wanted to say 'neutrik', the brand, or xlr trs-jack(stereojack) combo input?
    yes

  18. #18

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    You could always just add another mixer in the picture. that way you will hAVe enough inputs. You could have all of your drum mics into the mixer you have now. and with something like this:
    http://img3.musiciansfriend.com/dbas...6/7/282467.jpg
    you can have 4 more mics, and because this board has phantom power you could even just have it for your condensers. This board is about $80 with 4 xlr lines and other 1/4" i believe. or you could even go with the little brother of this board that has 2 xlr's but still has phantom power, if you decide to go with 2 condensers
    -Steven

  19. #19
    Larrysperf Guest

    Default Re: Only 8 Inputs - Best Mic Set Up?

    if you need more xlr inputs just get usb interface with 4 more ( around 80 bucks. Never use both xlr and 1/4 inputs or you are asking for trouble

  20. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by itchie View Post
    only use your mixer for playback

    go xlr straight into the back of your zoom recorder, its that easy
    +1!!!!

  21. #21

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    Default Re: Only 8 Inputs - Best Mic Set Up?

    2 room, 1 hats, 1 ride, 2 bass, 2 for snare
    ZildjianLeague/LP/Aquarian/Mapex/Pearl
    Snares: 4
    RIP- Frank, Wolvie, Les Paul
    Quote Originally Posted by Pearl MCX Man View Post
    I wish I was your wife
    Quote Originally Posted by amdrummer View Post
    if double bass is cheating then so is using two sticks

    Forum Rules
    DrumBum
    No metronome?
    The Rudiments

  22. #22
    Larrysperf Guest

    Default Re: Only 8 Inputs - Best Mic Set Up?

    Quote Originally Posted by Russ View Post
    2 room, 1 hats, 1 ride, 2 bass, 2 for snare
    Little over kill here for home micing

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