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Thread: ** Songwriting advice?? **

  1. #1

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    Default ** Songwriting advice?? **

    Im not all to sure if this is the right section, but ill give it a shot.

    To all of you that are in bands, and write originals... what do you find is the
    most organized and efficient way to write songs? When I say this, what I mean is what is your process?

    Our band is a metalcore band basically, our band hasnt been together too long, and we have completed one original thus far. And it seems that when we try to "write" at band practice it tends to get a little... out of hand.. Because EVERYONE HAS A DIFFERENT IDEA!

    So, my brother and I (the lead guitarist) were thinking, he and I should take the lead and write some song skeletons... Get an idea for the emotion of the song, some lyrics and base the songs feel off of that. And write it on the guitar, ( Intro, verse, chorus etc... whatever the structure may be)

    Have you guys any advice on a good organized way to write originals? There is no lack of inspiration whatsoever... just alot of disorganization...

    any proven methods??

    any help GREATLY appreciated!
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  2. #2

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    Default Re: ** Songwriting advice?? **

    I'm not currently in a band, but in the past we usually would jam a bunch of stuff and record it all. If there was a certain jam that we liked, we would go back to the recording and start from there, and tweak it to our liking.

  3. #3

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    Default Re: ** Songwriting advice?? **

    I guess there are many ways to write songs, but the most popular is for the band to just start jamming...much like what you guys are doing. However, there is a lot going on here :
    1) everyone has their own (musical) ideas to bring to the table. That is, one guy plays a riff (that he's been practicing) and the other guys start playing something to it (that sounds good).
    2) everyone has their ears open. You have to be able to listen to each other during the jam and go (musically) where it takes you.
    3) take what you've got and put it together. What we typically do, is record the jam. Later we listen to it and take the best parts of it and piece them together into a basic song structure. Note that the recording here is key because nobody ever remember the details of the jams.
    4) Once you have a basic structure, this is typically when you fit in the vocals and add lead guitar, etc..
    I hope this helps. Rock On

  4. #4

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    Default Re: ** Songwriting advice?? **

    copy down memorable things people say, things you think of when your talking, or phrases you think are interesting from anywhere else, and overtime youll have a cool song goin. i vote that someone should start a songs we wrote thread. i think a lot of people could benefit from sharing and reading the offerings of their friends here. it may help them with their dilemma, and offer insight into the mystery behind it all
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  5. #5

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    In my band, the guitarist usually has already made up a few riffs during the week and then I start to mess around for a while and cause everyone strife and they all get mad at me and we argue and I quit the band and come back and we apoligize and then I play anohter beat that they all hate and they get pissed again and say the drummer is the most pointless member of the band, because he's just taking away from the song blah blah blah. Then I play something simple and time-keeping, and we're all friends again.

    Long story short, don't let the drums take away from the guitar and vocals. Keep it simplistic. Sure, we are the BEST instrument in the band and everyone secretly envys us and all the girls want us and not the homely basss player, but the way I see it:

    The guitars are the sound of the song
    The vocals are the meaning
    The drums and bass are the feel.

    (just to clarify, the top paragraph never actually happens)

  6. #6

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    Default Re: ** Songwriting advice?? **

    I think you're in a situation where, if used to you guys' advantage could really forge a new take on whatever genre you're shooting for. The fact that each of you seems to have a different idea on where to go with things is indeed a slippery slope into constant bickering and generally not getting anywhere with the writing. However, I would suggest that everyone at once kind of open up their minds on accepting ideas other than their own - and do what I've done in my bands, which is "we rule nothing out until it's proven worthless". By that I mean, you have an opportunity to become a really creative outfit, but it's going to take an all around compromise and open minds.

    One thing that I've always steered clear of - as you started to mention this; is taking control between one or two members and doing most of the writing. What ends up happening is that the remaining members will feel left out of the process and will either a.) grow bored and angry, or b.) simply grow angry and frustrated.

    There's no such thing as a bad idea. Leave it up to the band as a whole to decide what works and what doesn't. Good luck!!
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  7. #7

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    Default Re: ** Songwriting advice?? **

    Guys, thank you so much... alot of great advice.

    I think the situation, or main concern is it seems that there are so many ideas.. nobody really seems to be able to appy them.. it gets really disorganized and somewhat frustrating. so I suppose the only question i really have left, is...

    whats the best way to organize it? guitar first? have some lyrics first? whats next?
    we all have the drive, just dont know how to maximize our time to be productive..

    any insight on that?
    ==========================================
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  8. #8

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    Default Re: ** Songwriting advice?? **

    We usually start with a guitar riff or melody first. Fortunately, in my situation, I also play some guitar, so I can contribute to that portion of it - and that works well, because I can come up with a guitar part and already have a good idea of what beat I want to add to it. In any event, that seems to work well for us - guitar first - our bassist is really good, so he's able to put some spin on things as we come up with it, and even write stuff himself, then we play it together as a group and I develop the drumming around the guitar parts. Vocals have always been the last - in my previous band, our vocalist wouldn't even write lyrics to a song until it was finished and he could get a good feel for it and the vibe and know what to write.

    Having disagreements is a totally natural part of the process. No group is going to always agree on everything, so you have to allow for that, but overall - I think you guys really just need to sit down with each other and discuss where you want to take things and how to best capture your creativity as a whole.
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  9. #9

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    Default Re: ** Songwriting advice?? **

    Quote Originally Posted by Terror View Post
    Guys, thank you so much... alot of great advice.
    whats the best way to organize it? guitar first? have some lyrics first? whats next? ....
    Luckily, our singer is a prolific lyricist. Whenever we (instruments) come up with musical ideas, he just seems to just pull something out and starts fitting it in. Once he finds the right lyrics, we all collaborate on the song structure and details of the song. Sometimes it takes just an few hours to put a song together and other times it takes weeks to develop a song. Its just not something that you can force to do in a limitted timeframe. I guess this is why bands who have MADE IT with their first album, tend to crash and burn with their second. They now have a limitted timeframe to come up with 15 songs. Bottom line, you have to come up with a process that works for you.

  10. #10

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    Nio, thank you... Its just that because this is my first legitimate band... nobody really knows how long it SHOULD take, what process is BEST things like that.. so everyone gets kind of ansy when it gets to songwriting.

    But all of your advice has made things leaps and bounds easier. thank you
    ==========================================
    MY DRUHMSET:

    Ludwig Black Magic snare
    Sabian AAX Cymbals
    OCDP Avalon 5 piece maple kit
    Evans heads
    PDP rack
    Pearl Demon Drive double pedal
    Pork Pie drum throne

  11. #11

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    Default Re: ** Songwriting advice?? **

    Start jamming, recording it helps ALOT, because when you find something you like, you don't have to stop and go back to it, because stopping a jam in the middle of something righteous can totally be a downer and you may not be able to recreate that exact emotion and prescience. What I actually told my buddy, the guitarist to do, was put together his riffs before hand when we jam, possibly even record them and give them to me, like he writes his own song, because if I have something in my ears I can listen to I can come up with much more original and solid stuff than improvising on the spot, as im sure everyone is.

    So possibly work on something with your brother and take it to the other band members, or simply jam but keep it an organized jam, if you find something you like, go back to it, work your sweet parts back into your jam and always reorganize, which creates a common thread and more background to go off.

    Hope this helps!

  12. #12

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    My band had the same problem and came up with what you did which works great. Write a few general outlines for songs. People are way better at coming up with supporting ideas than mixing a bunch of different ones.

  13. #13

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    Default Re: ** Songwriting advice?? **

    About how long did it take most of you to create a set list before playing out?

    (for those of you that this applies to lol)
    ==========================================
    MY DRUHMSET:

    Ludwig Black Magic snare
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    OCDP Avalon 5 piece maple kit
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    PDP rack
    Pearl Demon Drive double pedal
    Pork Pie drum throne

  14. #14

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    Default Re: ** Songwriting advice?? **

    Quote Originally Posted by Terror View Post
    About how long did it take most of you to create a set list before playing out?

    (for those of you that this applies to lol)
    Wow... you know, that's a good question, and one that I can't readily answer actually. I've been in several bands at this point and in my experience myself and the people I jammed with simply came up with material and once we were happy enough with it, started shopping around for gigs. Don't think there was ever any set time period between first getting together and a first show - basically it was whenever we felt comfortable enough to get out there and play in front of an audience. Anywhere from a few weeks to a few months in one or two cases. Obviously the more you practice as a group, the shorter that time period will be.
    My Kit: Gretsch Catalina Maple 6 piece (1 up, two down, 1 not used); Pearl 12" Porkpie Snare; Sabian cymbals (except the Zildjian 20" med. ride); Evans EC-2 heads all around with G1 resos; DW-8002b double pedals.

  15. #15

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    I've always like to just have whoever find a riff that everyone can agree on, jam off that, and then make it have some sort of coherent order. Lyrics should go last from my experience but do what works.
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  16. #16

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    Having taken some songwriting courses the best idea I have to offer is to take one or two motives and apply variations to them to create intros/bridges/endings etc. I think bands get frustrated when they try to get overly creative and make incompatible musical ideas work.

    Let's face it, if there are lyrics and a guitar part in place, a good bass player and drummer know what to do. A lot of bands work backward from the main riff, or theme. You don't need to abandon that theme just because you are moving to a different section. Just change the rhythm, the key, the time signature, see if the riff can be played backwards, whatever. Keep developing that riff throughout the song.

    Listen to a lot of songs you don't like. Do you notice that most of the sections have little relation to each other and don't flow naturally? Most good songs keep identifiable motives developing throughout so that a song can unfold.

    This is all called theme and variation. Google search this and you will find many more ideas than the ones I listed. Just start with one idea and see how far you can get.
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  17. #17

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    ^^ madgolfer, that is fantastic advice thank you
    ==========================================
    MY DRUHMSET:

    Ludwig Black Magic snare
    Sabian AAX Cymbals
    OCDP Avalon 5 piece maple kit
    Evans heads
    PDP rack
    Pearl Demon Drive double pedal
    Pork Pie drum throne

  18. #18

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    sounds like you need to adopt a band leader/ authority

    unless you all can make the compromises within the band

    good luck!

  19. #19

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    thought i might share my view of song writing

    fortunately and unfortunately im the kind of person to rule with an iron glove
    im harsh and straight to the point, if something sounds bad or isn't working ill be as direct as possible but i will use the right time to say it

    musos can take things so personal sometimes but in my case if i don't say anything they will think im happy with it..the truth is ugly but bad music is just horrid

    this might not apply to your band but it might to other new bands

    music writing is all about having fun the end of the day .don't forget it!

  20. #20

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    i never write songs, the lead guitarists usually writes all of them, the bassist wrote one, and the ryhtm guitarist wrote one, and a few hav been made by just playin something random that sonded cool, i just come up with a drum beat, but if u hav different opinions, just make a deal say how about you write 2 songs and i write 2 songs, that way both of you guys get your way, and another way is, just hav the guitarist start playin a random riff he came up wih then all join in, thats how my band came up with one of our best songs
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  21. #21

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    Haven't written any with a band. Mostly start with lyrics and melody, then find harmony chords and experiment with different rhythms and beats. But overall once basic lyric/melody and harmony exist the songs take on specific flavor depending upon who is playing the bass/drums/guitar/etc.

  22. #22

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    i just wait till it happens. always does.
    ZildjianLeague/LP/Aquarian/Mapex/Pearl
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pearl MCX Man View Post
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    if double bass is cheating then so is using two sticks

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  23. #23

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    When writing lyrics try to stay away from curse words, you can always express a certain feeling (even anger) without having to curse!
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