The day the music died...

[El-kevo the drumtech]

When do you think music reached an unreturnable point of suck?

I believe there are two instances:
1. The day the first nirvana video hit Mtv. It was a good thing, music had become stale and very cliche, but on the bad side was any idiot playing a guitar for three months suddenly became a rockstar in a new genre called "grunge" and continues today with the likings of fall out boy and many others.

2. Woodstock '99
Festivals before woodstock 99 were so much fun. remember those irresponsible tattoo the earth festivals? or perhaps the first few loolapaloosas? The way rock concerts should be...not corporatized. Just an empty field, 4x4 decks as the stage, shows not put on by live nation or a good promoter looking for money but by guys who thought it might be a good idea? Since woodstock 99 people have been scared of the "riots" that happened and wont let festivals happen with more than 16,000 people anymore. and if they do happen, its sponsored by honda civic and Staind is the headliner.

by the way, something that wasnt reported by the media after the ensueing "riots" was the fires were originally started by a generator overheating and a refrigerator truck overheating. Thus the reason most of the fires were out by the vendors, not the concert goers who would have been all "rowdy" and the others were small and fueled by 8 foot tables and fence pieces. Riots Ha!

[Scooter]

Two words: Power Ballad

[El-kevo the drumtech]

yes...very well played...

i wrote three paragraphs using full sentences and in your sentence fragment put me to shame...

well played sir!!

[drummer]

Some people speak that way... of music not being good anymore. I don't agree with this type of generalization. There are thousands upon thousands of good songs out there in so many genres. I thank God that he has allowed me to hear the music.

And concerts without corporate backing? If you want the big stages, lights, sound crews, promotion, etc., someone's got to pay for it. Take the "corporate" out of it and these shows would be under-funded. I don't think it's fair to rag on corporations. They're not always the big evil empire. It's a two way street and a win/win. They put up the money and get advertising for their product/service and the concert promoters get enough money to "do it right".

[El-kevo the drumtech]

True to an extent...little bit of a rant here

Mtv in 1980s-1995 was not corporatized, they just had periods of bad music...
then they found pepsi and began trying to look professional. Pepsi had decided that it could have cast members of a tv show drinking and using pepsi products on a "live" reality based tv show. its MTV! the M stands for music...i see no Ms in road rules...thats the kind of corporate wash im talking about. they completely changed the format to fit the sponsors when im sure there were PLENTY of Sony walkman (at the time) and such ads that were trying to get seen. surely Mtv did not have ratings problems or they would have picked some better music. mtv once banned prodigy's video for "smack my ***** up" but played merideth brooks "im a *****" they claimed it was the use of the profanity "*****".

for more on this topic: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Censorship_on_MTV

promoters are afraid to take a chance. They go for the sure fire deal.
much like road rules, which people did tune into...do partly to lack of anything else geared towards the midteen-20 something generation of 1980s-1990s. There is a semi annual festival in houston called Buzzfest. if you look up the history of buzzfest, you see the same acts every single show...buckcherry, staind, paparoach (bands who cant fill a 1,000 capacity club on their own)...why? is there not any other bands out there people would pay to see? Is this event so stale that ONLY those bands want to play? 94.5 The "buzz" doesnt exactly have the best rotation but they do play 40 some odd songs any given day at least (repeatedly, but nonetheless) again why? do we really need to hear blink 182 34 times a day? is there not some other band who is capable of filling those 2.5 minutes of airtime?

same subject: different topic;
If rush is going to play ashow, its going to sell out. if fall out boy is going to play, its going to sell out. but what about all those THOUSANDS of bands who are genuinely talented but arent given a chance because they dont sound like chris cornell?


now back to festivals:
my original argument wasnt so much over the corporatizing of the event so much as catering to the sponsors for the event. promoters seem to have forgotten that if you put on a boat show, Johnson motors will sponsor it. If you put on a metal show hot topic will sponsor it. Howard stern still has sponsors and he was told in the 80s he pissed off all sponsors and he wouldnt have any funding or a radio show in 6 months, 2 decades later hes still going.

[MadGolfer]

Hmmm...

I remember being about 16 when Nirvana came out. I didn't like them, but I did like Candlebox, Live, Alice in Chains and a few others. I was burned out on all the hair metal and needed a change. Plus, my small drumset was now "big" and cool. I never really had the guts to schedule a two hour hair styling anyway (lol).

The only thing I can say in defense of hair metal is that at least there was a focus on some level of musicianship ("Shred" was big, most of the drummers were influenced by Bonham and took solos freely, whatever). Some of the only musical things the grunge guys were doing is venting some social anxiety by destroying instruments.

I still think there is some really good music out there. You just have to dig a little deeper. Good music never goes away, it just gets piled on by a lot of junk. A lot of great music happens locally and regionally. Go out and support your local guys/gals!

[Arctic Bird]

wow, i was channeling your sentiments today i do believe el kevo. with my first introduction to any type of music being heavily influenced by punk, then encompassing rock, some jazz, and metal, it seems modern muzak is generally like a lost purity. could be just my own perception, but today as i was rarely listening to the local "buzz" radio station, i was once again reminded why i no longer lend ear to the more popular stations, mostly radio in general for that matter. sounds generic. i think it was that new pearl jam... somethin about breaking and fixing, cold and fire, blah, blah... it appears that soul has left the building..... paging soul.... anyone?..... anyone?

[drummer]

It's just generalizations that I don't like El Kevo. But many good points and I understand where you're coming from. I see music like fashion. The people pulling the stings try to force the fashion and you either eat it or you are considered not "in". I've never cared about that. I'll wear what I want to. I don't want anyone telling me how to dress anymore than I want them telling me what music to listen to. So to quote MadGolfer:

Good music never goes away, it just gets piled on by a lot of junk.

That pretty much says it all.

[bongobro]

drummer, one of the best observations of all when you quoted MadGolfer: "Good music never goes away, it gets piled on by a lot of junk."

Have you noticed that most of the truly "classic" songs--the ones that get played over and over again, no matter what your favorite station's format--are the more minimalist songs of an artist's career? That is, the ones with a simple, uncluttered arrangement that doesn't try to add everything but the kitchen sink to the basics. A few examples from my book:

Elvis: "Don't Be Cruel," "Hound Dog," "Love Me Tender"...anything prior to his return from the Army, IMHO...some of that psuedo-opera stuff he did right after he came back still makes me want to

Beatles: Most anything before "Yesterday"...very little after "Sgt. Pepper"...and certainly nothing that Phil Spector ever got his grubby little paws on! (Compare "The Long and Winding Road" from "Let it Be" with its so-called "unplugged version.)

And heaven help those who try to update the classics by arranging them for trendy styles...the classics became classics without having to remake them every couple of years!

[quikstang2]

Radio

[Bafke]

I say: Lady Gaga

Seriously, I'm not happy with the music served on commerical channels at all, but if that is what Johnny averrage (I'm translating a dutch expression here, does it make sense?) wants to hear, so be it. There still is good music around, but you need to make an effort to get to it.

[bongobro]

Radio

To paraphrase the Buggles, "radio killed the recording star?"