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Thread: Always count?

  1. #1

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    Default Always count?

    I'm just starting out, but I noticed that some beats I try to play go much better when I just play them rather than trying to count (mainly when I try faster stuff).

    I'm wondering from those who play songs or in a band, do you always count or do you play from feel/memory, at least sometimes?

    Since I'm a newbie, I make sure to count, but I was curious for down the line.

  2. #2

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    RR, my drum teacher wants to smack me upside the head when she realizes that I wasn't counting something. I'm like you in that I like to "feel" the music, but it is a mistake, because counting will help set that internal clock that keeps us right on the beat. Our job is to help the band know where where the beats should fall, so if we lose track of the count, we could take down a whole band. Eventually, the count becomes internalized, so for now just keep counting.
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  3. #3

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    "Count" in the practice room, "play" in the band.

    That said; you don't have to literally count all the time every minute of every practice. Break it up and trust your instincts. As long as you record your sessions now and then, you'll be able to listen back to make sure you were on time.

  4. #4

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    If you get to a speed where counting becomes difficult, just stop counting e's and a's, or even +'s. Counting the ONE,2,3,4 etc is a lot better than not counting at all.

  5. #5

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    Yes, I should clarify.

    I found I was just playing by feel, but I would end up either counting 1,2,3,4 or 2,4, etc. I just dropped the other stuff because it got in the way of playing.

    But yes, I'm doing everything slow enough at first so I can count aloud.

    I swear, I'm trying to do 16th notes on the HH while hitting the snare on 2 and 4 and keeping the bass drum going on 1,2,3,4. Think I was at 40bpm or something to finally do it. And counting too.

    Glad it was only day 1 of my learning though. Not too bad for the first time using a HH and stuff. It's feeling better after just a day.

  6. #6

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    Quote Originally Posted by drummer View Post
    "Count" in the practice room, "play" in the band.

    That said; you don't have to literally count all the time every minute of every practice. Break it up and trust your instincts. As long as you record your sessions now and then, you'll be able to listen back to make sure you were on time.
    This. Counting is important but it's more important to be able to play properly without counting, which ironically can come from counting regularly.

  7. #7

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    When you play and not count but still get it right, its a lucky guess but you cant guess all the time (paraphrased quote originally said by Frank)
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  8. #8

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    I take this topic very seriously, nothing frustrates me more than hearing a drummer say they don't count. Counting is YOUR job, you should never be listening to the guitar or other instruments to find out where the count is. They are listening to you, so if you mess up the time, odds are they will too. You don't have to count out every little beat, but at ALL times you should at least know where the downbeat of 1 is. Once you've ingrained a certain beat into your head after playing it over and over and are comfortable with it, you get the feel for where the count is and no longer need to actually count it out in your head, your subconcious does it for you. Counting is especially important when filling, if you aren't comming back into the beat at the right time you will be heading for a train wreck. It sounds like you are on the right track Rebel, it all comes in time with practice, keep it up!

  9. #9

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    i never count when i play
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  10. #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gretschhead View Post
    I take this topic very seriously, nothing frustrates me more than hearing a drummer say they don't count. Counting is YOUR job, you should never be listening to the guitar or other instruments to find out where the count is. They are listening to you, so if you mess up the time, odds are they will too. You don't have to count out every little beat, but at ALL times you should at least know where the downbeat of 1 is. Once you've ingrained a certain beat into your head after playing it over and over and are comfortable with it, you get the feel for where the count is and no longer need to actually count it out in your head, your subconcious does it for you. Counting is especially important when filling, if you aren't comming back into the beat at the right time you will be heading for a train wreck. It sounds like you are on the right track Rebel, it all comes in time with practice, keep it up!
    Thanks.

    I grew up around music as my parents were in a band that played gigs here and in Cali mainly. And I was around musicians for our church constantly, so I have sort of the "feel" if you will. In my latter 30s now, but better late than never.

    Been at this for about a week now (1 day with HH). I'm loving the heck out of it. Fighting to not run before I can walk.

  11. #11

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    There are some songs I play that I don't count, have never counted, but I know inside and out, so it's not really necessary, per se. But like GretschHead said, I know where I am, probably subconsciously, at all times.
    Robert

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  12. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gretschhead View Post
    I take this topic very seriously, nothing frustrates me more than hearing a drummer say they don't count. Counting is YOUR job, you should never be listening to the guitar or other instruments to find out where the count is. They are listening to you, so if you mess up the time, odds are they will too. You don't have to count out every little beat, but at ALL times you should at least know where the downbeat of 1 is. Once you've ingrained a certain beat into your head after playing it over and over and are comfortable with it, you get the feel for where the count is and no longer need to actually count it out in your head, your subconcious does it for you. Counting is especially important when filling, if you aren't comming back into the beat at the right time you will be heading for a train wreck. It sounds like you are on the right track Rebel, it all comes in time with practice, keep it up!
    Reading this post made me mad because not every drummer plays the rhythm for their band.

  13. #13

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    my instructor told me .. "yah you should count my teacher made me do it all the time" he went on a little but he told me to try and do it but dont worry too much .. today I was haveing a heck of a time trying to figure the when and what of a fill so I stopped slowed down looked at the music figured where in the count the fill started and ended and stuck it the next time I tried .. i believe I am a true believer in counting now i even found myself counting during a song on the radio to get my mind used to doing it faster than I really can .
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  14. #14

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    I played with a lead player that counted while he was playing and I could sure tell it when it was pointed out to me. It didn't do him any justice in his playability. He was a very good lead but his counting made him play choppy...

    Yes I was in school band and counting is very important to know how to do. Even learning a cover tune by ear sometimes ya may have to count something out to get it right.

    But for the most part I never count once its learned. If you have truly learned it, its like breathing air and you better do it the same way every time, if you can't then you never learned it.
    One doesn't count one's breath all day, does one?
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  15. #15

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    I use the Boss 90 Metronome (Dr. Beat) and one of the audio features is a sample of a recorded voice (female) counting to any meter selected on the metronome dial. For those who use this feature knows what I'm taking about right? Well I've grown quite fond of this human voice sample since it can actually fill the the count out rather than hearing a click or tock. I'm finding myself counting out loud with "her" as we spend many hours locked up in the garage practicing rudiments together. My wife actually mimics this voice lol (jealous)

    If you want to have some fun and you don't own a metronome, buy one and try the voice sample for the tempo and you'll be surprised how quickly you'll start counting with her in your head! It worked for me. The fun starts when you crank up the tempo to 150+ bpm and set the tempo dial to 16th notes and listen to the "her" rip through the count. I know...I need to get out more often. I've been in the "woodshed" too long.

  16. #16

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    Rebel, I think you're going to get a lot of opinions on this one because we've all adjusted to how things work best for us. I know drummers that are very technical and are count driven, while others, like to feel the song. I'm the latter, where I like to play the song in my head and listening to the other instruments. Since we are all able to feel where the downbeats are and the 1st beat of each measure, I can always get a point of reference in case things get haywire. You should also note that most if not all of the songs I play (in my current band and some prior) are in straight 4-4 time. If I play something like Take-5 with a slightly weird time signature, I do find my self counting during the important parts.

  17. #17

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    You are right Nio. I think the important thing is to know HOW to count. Know the time signatures. Recognize where you are in the song or measure or verse or chorus or bridge or whatever. Know the feel of the song and play to it. Some people play great without counting, others don't. Do what works for you, but I would say at least try it.
    Robert

    "Ok Guys This Is In Da Key Of Boom Chick Boom Boom Chick...." - SIR PHROGGE

    "A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, design a building, write a sonnet, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, solve equations, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects." Robert Heinlein

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  18. #18

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    Some very good points made in this thread.....we've had this conversation in the past and I have always said I play by feel , until Frank chimed in with his comments .

    He said that his thoughts were that its more of the internal clock taking over than it was just feeling the music .

    To answer your question , yes........it does and will get easier and you wont be counting out loud to yourself , well at least if you dont want to .
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  19. #19

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    Lots of great feedback here.

    I find some things I try are MUCH easier to just play by feel (done right too) as counting screws me up. However, that's when I slow it down and count it out. Even if I end up not consciously counting everything at "play speed" at times I know subconsciously the practicing I did at the slow speed with counting is helping me out.

  20. #20

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    I count all the time. I dont do it out loud, but the count is always going in my head or with my left foot. Thats how I know were I am in a song, even if I cant hear the bass guitar or vocals ect.

  21. #21

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    the only time i counted was in school playing in the band..we had to. not to say if you can do this and play with feeling..then go ahead
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  22. #22

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    Please explain how counting when you play takes away the feeling?

  23. #23

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    Quote Originally Posted by Northern Redneck View Post
    Please explain how counting when you play takes away the feeling?

    I know that question wasn't directed to me but I stated this about one of the guys I've jammed with.

    "I played with a lead player that counted while he was playing and I could sure tell it when it was pointed out to me. It didn't do him any justice in his playability. He was a very good lead but his counting made him play choppy"...
    A 1 E & A 2 E & A

    I also find playing with Nights in white satin in the middle where the orchestra leads it there is a change in time keeping from feeling to reading/counting...
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  24. #24

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    Thats just a sign of a crappy guitar player.
    A good player will count and not sound choppy or stiff. All counting does is let you know were you are. ie Ive now played 16 bars its time to go into the bridge ect...

  25. #25

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    Quote Originally Posted by Northern Redneck View Post
    Thats just a sign of a crappy guitar player.
    A good player will count and not sound choppy or stiff. All counting does is let you know were you are. ie Ive now played 16 bars its time to go into the bridge ect...
    I guess you didn't read the part where I said he was a very good lead player. Far past a one finger picker, the dude really was good. It prolly had to do with trying to do to many things at one time, like play & count while on the do more downs race track...
    Play to win my friend, and make sure you see you won in the eyes of others not that of your own, then truly you've won...

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