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Thread: Separate channels

  1. #1

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    Default Separate channels

    Hey guys, havent been on in awhile, but i have a question and i know someone on here can help. I just bought a slightly older yamaha powered mixing board. But when my band records every channel records to the computer in one track, i want guitar, vocals and all drums to show up separate. Right now i have a 12 channel mixer, and im using its line out plugging into the line in plug on my laptop. is there something i need to split the channels? or how do i get all of my inputs in separate tracks?
    -Steven

  2. #2

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    You are going to need an audio/ digital interface with multiple inputs to do what you are asking. There are a ton of ways to skin that cat. I use a Digi002 which has 8 inputs (4XLR and 4 direct inputs) and then a light pipe connects an ADA8000 which has another 8 XLR inputs. finally there is a spdf input (which can split into two inputs) as well on the 002 with a grand total of 18 inputs.

  3. #3

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    so if i have an audio interface i will be able to see all of my individual inputs when i record?
    -Steven

  4. #4

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    Yes. When I record I have a batter head snare track, a reso head snare track, tom1 track, tom2 track, tom3 track, tom 4 track, subkick mic track, a batter head bass track, two separate overhead tracks, two separate room mic tracks all recording separately at the same time. But you need an audio/ digital interface with your computer to do this. There are a few ways it will interface with the computer, usually USB2 or firewire. I prefer firewire as there is no latency issues running that many tracks at the same time.

    Question what are the outputs on the Yam board you are dealing with. that will probably help tease out the best route to interface with your computer.
    Last edited by nucjd; 11-04-2009 at 09:41 PM.

  5. #5

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    Its a Yamaha integrated mixer em series model 300.

    the outputs are line out, mon. out and g-eq out
    -Steven

  6. #6

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    Ok I looked up your mixer. From the outputs you have the only way to multi track record will be an A/D interface with the computer. The mixer does not have a firewire or USB2 connection which is what is required to record multiple tracks at once onto the computer separately.

    BTW, the line in plug on the computer has a very poor audio digital conversion rate which will loose tons of fidelity once it is on your computer. There are small audio/ digital conversion equipment out there that will have two to four inputs for much cheaper than what I listed above. Say an M box has two good inputs for recording and is a cheaper way to go. You could record each band member separately and then be able to mix the tracks on your computer with software that comes with the equipment and every track would be separate of the other. As you can see a ton of ways to skin that cat.

  7. #7

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    what would you say about the lexicon omega desktop recording studio? i can get it for under $80
    -Steven

  8. #8

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    Or what about even something like the Alesis LineLink Dual 1/4" to usb cable interface?
    -Steven

  9. #9

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    looked it up on sweet water. Looks like a good piece of equipment with preamps /XLR which are hey for your mics. This will give you a few options with your mixer you already have. It looks like it has 4 inputs which would allow four mics ( you would have to add two more pre amps). You could 4 mic your kit ( Bass, snare, and two overheads) or you can run all of your mices through your Yam mixer and then direct line in to the lexicon.

    Alesis makes solid gear. The Alesis 1/4 to USB would allow your Yam mixer to interface into the compute, however you can't directly run XLR into your computer as with the other piece of equipment and it does not appear to come with Mixing software (Cubase) like the Lexicon. It also does not hve pre amps.

    The Lexi appears to give you more options. You can record the guitars and Bass at the same time with a click track and then bump it down to a stem track and then you interface the computer like I stated above and lay down your tracks to the Stem track and finally the vocals would be tracked out as well. All very doable with the Lexi.

  10. #10

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    Actually with the 1/4" interface i was wondering if that would convert my mixers stuff into digital, and maybe even show the channels?


    I already have audacity as a mixing sofware for now.
    -Steven

  11. #11

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    Nope it will not split your channels. Unfortunately once the mixer "mixes" the tracks it is a done deal. It can not be split back to individual tracks in the computer. It will take the output and convert it into digital signal which would be two channels.

  12. #12

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    Oh darn. Well i think ill get the lexi then. We have a recording studio that my band knows the owner of and we can get in for very very cheap. so i just need enough to send tracks to band members to practice at home.

    Maybe I wont even get the lexi then, cause we can record fine for what we are looking to do, and we have that studio. so ill just take my time on building up my studio no sense in rushing it and not getting the best right away.

    Thanks alot man, even though i'm probably not gonna go out and buy anything right now im loving learning about music tech.
    -Steven

  13. #13

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    No problem Zeta. If I were you I would probably hold off for now as well. When you are ready with your studio at that point you can get an interface that will real time track 10-20 tracks separately at the same time. That is key for drummers and getting a good mix. My brother is a mix engineer and I learn from him all of the time. It is very complicated and almost a different language so any time you have a question fire away. I will do my best and there a few guys on this site as well that are into recording that can chime in.

  14. #14

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    From what I have read on here, the only way to multitrack everything direct from the mixer to the pc AND mix it in the computer independantly is with a mixer that has a fire wire interface. This way, the kick, snare, and overheads will be independant from each other, as will the bass, guitar and vocals.
    Kevin
    DW Performance series - Gun Metal Metallic Lacquer
    24/12/16 6.5x14
    Sabian AA/AAX hi-hats & crashes
    Sabian HHX Evolution ride

    Drummers can be very tempomental.....

  15. #15

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    True CD. Either firewire, USB2, or different pin connector type interfaces seen with high end A/D converters (i.e. Digi HD systems). Again, not a fan of USB2 as there is some delay issues when compared to firewire.

  16. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by nucjd View Post
    True CD. Either firewire, USB2, or different pin connector type interfaces seen with high end A/D converters (i.e. Digi HD systems). Again, not a fan of USB2 as there is some delay issues when compared to firewire.
    Now I'm still learning bout this stuff but I thought USB would only give you a 2 channel signal for stereo panning. For zeta wanting at least 4 tracks for the kit, plus a bass track, guitar track and vocal track, a firewire mixer with at least 8 XLR mic inputs is the only way to get the individual mic tracks into the computer to be controlled seperately... no?

    I want to do the same thing so if there's a cheaper way, I'm all ears.
    Kevin
    DW Performance series - Gun Metal Metallic Lacquer
    24/12/16 6.5x14
    Sabian AA/AAX hi-hats & crashes
    Sabian HHX Evolution ride

    Drummers can be very tempomental.....

  17. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by CycleDude View Post
    Now I'm still learning bout this stuff but I thought USB would only give you a 2 channel signal for stereo panning. For zeta wanting at least 4 tracks for the kit, plus a bass track, guitar track and vocal track, a firewire mixer with at least 8 XLR mic inputs is the only way to get the individual mic tracks into the computer to be controlled seperately... no?

    I want to do the same thing so if there's a cheaper way, I'm all ears.
    USB is just an interface between, say the mixer and your pc- it doesn't limit the number of channels you have- that's up to your mixer or other hardware thingy that you're plugging your mics/guitars/bass into. Firewire is a better interface apparently, though depending on who I'm talking to at the music stores, that changes. (firewire is better!) There are other hardware interfaces that you can use, but a mixer with a firewire/usb interface will give you your required channels. Remember, this is the world of multitracking, so not everybody has to be recorded at the same time. We are working on our basement demo, and have laid down drums, bass and rhythm guitar at the same time, on separate tracks. Vocals and solos are going in after the "bed tracks" are complete.

    So there's my 2 cents!

  18. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by funkyruss View Post
    USB is just an interface between, say the mixer and your pc- it doesn't limit the number of channels you have- that's up to your mixer or other hardware thingy that you're plugging your mics/guitars/bass into.
    OK, maybe I'm just not getting it... We are using the computer as the recorder, right? I thought that if I had an 8 track mixer (as you put it the other hardware thingy that you're plugging your mics/guitars/bass into... and pluged it in to the computer via usb, that those 8 tracks would be dumped down into only two tracks for R & L stereo panning during the input to the computer, because the usb cannot keep them seperated. So for example, I would not be able to adjust my kick drum mic without affecting everything else.

    Is that wrong?

    Speak slowly... and clearly for me.... LOL!
    Last edited by CycleDude; 11-11-2009 at 08:54 AM.
    Kevin
    DW Performance series - Gun Metal Metallic Lacquer
    24/12/16 6.5x14
    Sabian AA/AAX hi-hats & crashes
    Sabian HHX Evolution ride

    Drummers can be very tempomental.....

  19. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by CycleDude View Post
    OK, maybe I'm just not getting it... We are using the computer as the recorder, right? I thought that if I had an 8 track mixer (as you put it the other hardware thingy that you're plugging your mics/guitars/bass into... and pluged it in to the computer via usb, that those 8 tracks would be dumped down into only two tracks for R & L stereo panning during the input to the computer, because the usb cannot keep them seperated. So for example, I would not be able to adjust my kick drum mic without affecting everything else.

    Is that wrong?

    Speak slowly... and clearly for me.... LOL!
    USB is just the flow of bits and bytes- your mixer is sending out on your usb, whatever it can send out of it- lets say 8 channels, then you have your software on your pc, that will see those 8 channels. So then you make your adjustments to the tracks (most software actually looks like a mixer) and from there you dump it down to 2 channel stereo.

    I'm hoping this is of benefit, and not adding to confusion, which is my specialty!
    Russ

  20. #20

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    Well lets see if we can simplify this a bit.

    The XLR cables go into a peice of hardware that has inputs (the number varies depending on what it is and who makes it) There is an audio/digital converter and word clock in this peice of hardware that takes the audio and makis it into digital info.

    The hardware is connected to the computer via the above connections (USB2 or firewire). The data then streams to the software on the computer that usually comes with the hardware (i.e digi 003...hardware with 8 inputs and pro tools...the software that will accept the 8 inputs separately onto their own tracks).

    The software will take the data from each input (that streams across on the firewire or USB2) on the hardware and create a track with it.

    Therefore to multitrack record at the same time you need a piece of hardware that will allow the multiple inputs to connect to the software on the computer. I personally use a Digi 002 which has 4 XLR inputs with preamps and 4 direct inputs which is connected to an ADA800 which has ten XLR inputs with preamps via an optical wire (light pipe) which gived me a total 18 inputs not counting the spdf inputs.

    This is just the basics. If you really want to learn about dither, sample rates, buffering, and latency just pop over to the pro tools forums or check out Black lion which does quite a bit of modification on these rigs and has good discussions.

  21. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by nucjd View Post
    Well lets see if we can simplify this a bit.

    The XLR cables go into a peice of hardware that has inputs (the number varies depending on what it is and who makes it) There is an audio/digital converter and word clock in this peice of hardware that takes the audio and makes it into digital info.
    OK, so this would be the mixer. Right?

    The hardware is connected to the computer via the above connections (USB2 or firewire). The data then streams to the software on the computer that usually comes with the hardware (i.e digi 003...hardware with 8 inputs and pro tools...the software that will accept the 8 inputs separately onto their own tracks).

    The software will take the data from each input (that streams across on the firewire or USB2) on the hardware and create a track with it.
    So then if I had 4 mics each one would be controllable via the compter software, regardless as to whether it came through usb 2.0 or FW. In other words, I could change the kick without affecting the snare... This is the part where I've read contradictory statements regarding usb vs. firewire, that usb could NOT do this where firewire could.

    Therefore to multitrack record at the same time you need a piece of hardware that will allow the multiple inputs to connect to the software on the computer. I personally use a Digi 002 which has 4 XLR inputs with preamps and 4 direct inputs which is connected to an ADA800 which has ten XLR inputs with preamps via an optical wire (light pipe) which gived me a total 18 inputs not counting the spdf inputs.

    This is just the basics. If you really want to learn about dither, sample rates, buffering, and latency just pop over to the pro tools forums or check out Black lion which does quite a bit of modification on these rigs and has good discussions.
    Kevin
    DW Performance series - Gun Metal Metallic Lacquer
    24/12/16 6.5x14
    Sabian AA/AAX hi-hats & crashes
    Sabian HHX Evolution ride

    Drummers can be very tempomental.....

  22. #22

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    Would it be simpler to get an audio interface with however many xlr inputs needed and use the software that it comes with, like cubase or whatever, in the computer in place of a traditional mixer?

    Tascam and Presonous both have models for under $300. A good mixer will cost that anyway, and it seems like it's duplicating alot of the same things..
    Kevin
    DW Performance series - Gun Metal Metallic Lacquer
    24/12/16 6.5x14
    Sabian AA/AAX hi-hats & crashes
    Sabian HHX Evolution ride

    Drummers can be very tempomental.....

  23. #23

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    Mixers classically are not used in this way unless you are dealing with a 30000 dollar HD rig with a mixing board. The hardware is an Audio/ digital converter and its sole job is to take the audio and covert it to digital and send it to the computer. It does not matter if it is USB2 or firewire, but classically the more inputs on the device the the hardware will use firewire because it is light years faster than usb when tranpsorting data which will affect latency while recording. The software in the computer will act as the mixer with faders and the ability to add plug ins on each separate track. I do not use a traditional mixer. all mixing is done at the software. My brother who is a mixing engineer does all mixing at the software interface on the computer.

  24. #24

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    Alright, here is a pic of my computer monitors. On the right are the multiple tracks which have been lay'd down while playing drums. On the left are the faders for each tract.
    Attached Images Attached Images

  25. #25

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    Here is a pic of my Digi 002 (the grey unit) and my ADA8000 (the black unit with the xlr plugged in). My computer is at the bottom and the black unit is a surge protector.
    Attached Images Attached Images

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