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Thread: Very (very) basic questions

  1. #1

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    Default Very (very) basic questions

    I got the cheapest electronic drum kit I could find (Ion ed05) simply so I could add some decent drums to my own rock/metal songs (can't find a drummer and suck with loops).

    Anyway, I'm really enjoying this "kit". I can hold down a basic kick/snare beat, adding cymbal when called for. I'm struggling to add hi-hat, it throws me off a bit, but I'm getting there.

    What I'm after is some of the basics. For example, should I be doing kick-snare-kick-snare. Or kick- kick+snare - kick - kick+snare.
    Same thing for using the toms - do I use the kick at all when using the toms? If I'm using the three toms as a fill before going back to the snare, do I miss out the kick I would normally do? It's very confusing trying to fit it in while concentrating on the toms.

    I'm guessing there's no set rules for this, but a general, basic idea of what to do would help. And save my right leg getting sore.

  2. #2

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    Here is a basic beat you can try.

    Practice 8th notes on the hats...1 & 2 & 3 & 4 &
    Quarter notes on the snare...rest 2 rest 4
    Eight notes with rests on the kick...1 rest 3 & rest

    Should sound like:
    1---------&-------2---------&--------3--------&--------4--------&
    tic-------tic-------tic-------tic-------tic-------tic-------tic-------tic
    -------------------rap-----------------------------------rap--------
    boom--------------------------------boom---boom----------------

  3. #3

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    Quote Originally Posted by areFish View Post
    Here is a basic beat you can try.

    Practice 8th notes on the hats...1 & 2 & 3 & 4 &
    Quarter notes on the snare...rest 2 rest 4
    Eight notes with rests on the kick...1 rest 3 & rest

    Should sound like:
    1---------&-------2---------&--------3--------&--------4--------&
    tic-------tic-------tic-------tic-------tic-------tic-------tic-------tic
    -------------------rap-----------------------------------rap--------
    boom--------------------------------boom---boom----------------
    Okay, I THINK I know what you mean there. "tic---tic---ric" is a metronome right? Other than that, this part would throw me off.

    3--------&---------4
    boom--boom--------

    Because when I do the double kick, I always want to make my right hand (hi-hat) follow the kick!


    I'm dying to try this out BTW, but my wife and little girl are in bed and although it's an electronic "kit" it's still pretty bloody noisy.

  4. #4

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    Default Re: Very (very) basic questions

    tic=hi-hat

  5. #5

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    Quote Originally Posted by bloodylipp View Post
    tic=hi-hat
    Okay, so is that diagram meaning use the foot pedal to open the hi-hat at certain points? The top two lines are for the hi-hat?

  6. #6

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    Quote Originally Posted by Diocletian View Post
    Okay, so is that diagram meaning use the foot pedal to open the hi-hat at certain points? The top two lines are for the hi-hat?
    Line one is just a count off in your head. One and Two and Three and Four and One and Two and Three and Four and, etc.

    Line two is hitting a closed hi-hat (each eighth note). I wouldn't worry about opening the hats until your holding the basic beat at a steady time.

    Hope this helps.

  7. #7
    Larrysperf Guest

    Default Re: Very (very) basic questions

    Now this is what DRUM CHAT is all about

  8. #8

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    Dude. Plug in the headphones and play to yourself! That is why those kits are so nice to have.

    When you can't make noise others have to hear.

    Basic beats that are REALLY easy are

    HH and Bass
    HH
    HH and Snare
    HH

    1 and 2 and 3 and 4 and

    Get that down then you can mix it up plenty of ways.

    Little easy fill

    Goes R L R L

    Right hand on snare
    Left hand on high tom
    Right hand on mid tom
    Left hand crosses under right to hit low tom

    Another

    Goes RLRL again

    8 on snare, 6 on high tom, 4 on mid tom, 3 on low tom finish with cymbal

    Have fun!

  9. #9

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    Default Re: Very (very) basic questions

    Thanks guys.

    Chewgravel, these things ARE a lot quieter than real drums, but even with headphones in, you're still essentially hitting plastic pads with wooden sticks which is far from being silent. Especially if you're trying to play along to something like Iron Maiden and get carried away trying to keep up!

  10. #10

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    BTW, I'm correct in saying you generally wouldn't be hitting the kick drum at the same time as the snare? For most basic beats?

  11. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by Diocletian View Post
    BTW, I'm correct in saying you generally wouldn't be hitting the kick drum at the same time as the snare? For most basic beats?
    Correctamondo, generally you would,nt....but you know some drummers
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  12. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by Diocletian View Post
    BTW, I'm correct in saying you generally wouldn't be hitting the kick drum at the same time as the snare? For most basic beats?
    For basic beats, no, but you should't get it into your head that you'll never be using the bass and snare at the same time. You ultimately want to be able to play any piece of your kit in combination with each other.

    If you insist on being self taught you should consider buying yourself a book that will guide you. Personally, I recommend Rod Morgenstein's "The Drumset Musician". It's inexpensive, easy to follow, and even comes with a play-along CD. Everyone I have recommended this book to, some even on this very forum, have all stated that it was exactly what they were looking for.

    Now, as far as being self taught, I discourage it only because of the technique issues that are bound to arise from not having an experienced drummer guide you. Knowing how to sit and hold your sticks is VERY important. If this is something you want to stick with for a while, I strongly recommend getting yourself at least a handful of lessons if only to learn proper technique.
    ^^^ SGD's Evans Empire ^^^

  13. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by DLDante View Post
    For basic beats, no, but you should't get it into your head that you'll never be using the bass and snare at the same time. You ultimately want to be able to play any piece of your kit in combination with each other.

    If you insist on being self taught you should consider buying yourself a book that will guide you. Personally, I recommend Rod Morgenstein's "The Drumset Musician". It's inexpensive, easy to follow, and even comes with a play-along CD. Everyone I have recommended this book to, some even on this very forum, have all stated that it was exactly what they were looking for.

    Now, as far as being self taught, I discourage it only because of the technique issues that are bound to arise from not having an experienced drummer guide you. Knowing how to sit and hold your sticks is VERY important. If this is something you want to stick with for a while, I strongly recommend getting yourself at least a handful of lessons if only to learn proper technique.
    Thanks a lot for the tips man! I already thought about lessons, I may well take at least a couple.
    On the book thing, I ordered one from Amazon yesterday - "
    "Play Rock Drums (Step One Teach Yourself)"". It was only 75p plus delivery, with a CD too (I think!) and good reviews. I'll take a look at that one you suggest too.

    If anyone wants to hear my basic drumming, here's a cover of Zep's "Tangerine" I did. I played everything on it, but my recording gear doesn't work well with acoustic instruments hence the poor guitar tone. I'm also no singer but wanted to have vocals on it so did them myself.

    http://soundclick.com/share?songid=9139087

  14. #14

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    I took the advice and have booked a lesson with this guy:

    http://www.mapex.co.uk/artists/george-henry/



  15. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by ironfist View Post
    Correctamondo, generally you would,nt....but you know some drummers
    ????

    Funk, R&B, 4 on the floor and how many Maiden songs are there where the bass and snare aren't played at the same time someplace during a song?

    If you can conquer this rock beat, the 1/4 note pulse on the hi hat, I bet you will solve many of your problems but that still will never replace the guidance of a teacher.

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z79WgK_J5ag"]YouTube- The Bob Seger System - Ramblin' Gamblin' Man[/ame]
    Last edited by Riverr1; 05-19-2010 at 01:44 PM.

  16. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by Riverr1 View Post
    ????

    Funk, R&B, 4 on the floor and how many Maiden songs are there where the bass and snare aren't played at the same time someplace during a song?

    If you can conquer this rock beat, the 1/4 note pulse on the hi hat, I bet you will solve many of your problems but that still will never replace the guidance of a teacher.

    YouTube- The Bob Seger System - Ramblin' Gamblin' Man
    I think we are getting off the point here. Diocletin is talking about very basic drum patterns. Since when was maiden anything like simple drum patterns. If you were playing simple 4/4 beats, you would not have the snare and bass together. I,m not saying it,s complicated to have the snare and bass together, but I don,t think Diocletin is looking for this. Maybe I,m mistaken, but I think we are getting too much into this, compared to what Diocletin is after.
    www.myspace.com/gozrock
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    Mapex Meridian Maple
    22"x20"
    10"x7"
    12"x8"
    14"x12"
    16"x14"
    Mapex Black Panther Sledgehammer 14"x6.5

    Sabian AAX Cymbals

    In Support of Leighs Record attempt
    http://www.drumchat.com/showthread.p...ers-12079.html

  17. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by Diocletian View Post
    Thanks guys.

    Chewgravel, these things ARE a lot quieter than real drums, but even with headphones in, you're still essentially hitting plastic pads with wooden sticks which is far from being silent. Especially if you're trying to play along to something like Iron Maiden and get carried away trying to keep up!
    I started with a set much like that. It can be pretty "clicky" at times.

    Trying to keep up with Nicko as a beginner. Braaaave man.

    Just take it slow. What you're struggling with is limb independence. There's no way to master it than repetition. And even then, you'll run into something your brain won't want you to do. If you can take your brain out of the equation, that may help. But I don't recommend it.
    Robert

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    "A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, design a building, write a sonnet, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, solve equations, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects." Robert Heinlein

    Zildjian League #1 Flunkie

  18. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by ironfist View Post
    I think we are getting off the point here. Diocletin is talking about very basic drum patterns. Since when was maiden anything like simple drum patterns. If you were playing simple 4/4 beats, you would not have the snare and bass together. I,m not saying it,s complicated to have the snare and bass together, but I don,t think Diocletin is looking for this. Maybe I,m mistaken, but I think we are getting too much into this, compared to what Diocletin is after.
    First off, my bad! For some reason I must have confused this question with another and thought a Maiden was referenced by the OP. I definetely screwed up on that one.

    What I'm reading into the question though is what my experience has shown me to be the first hurdle on the road to independence and syncopation that new kit drummers confront. The ability to break the habit of the right hand mimicing what your foot is doing--for right handed drummers. Obtaining the coordination to maintain a steady pulse on the hi hat regardless of the beat being laid down.

    ""I'm struggling to add hi-hat, it throws me off a bit, but I'm getting there.""

    This is why I put the link up to the old Seger tune. It's a fairly simple beat to begin that road to independence.

    I still disagree with you on the notion that the bass drum and snare are somehow always in opposition except for a "few." First beat I learned was the most basic, 4 on the floor. 1, 2, 3, 4 on the bass drum and hi-hat\ride and 2 and 4 on the snare. This is not worth arguing about though.

    FWIW, I think this is really the most pertinent question by the op:

    ""Same thing for using the toms - do I use the kick at all when using the toms? If I'm using the three toms as a fill before going back to the snare, do I miss out the kick I would normally do? It's very confusing trying to fit it in while concentrating on the toms.""

    This is an long standing question of when to and when not to. Hair\glam metal drummers of the 80's can be defined by this question. Those that do, those that don't, those that can and those that can't. The goal is to do or don't by choice and not do or don't by ability.

    Hope I've cleared up my intentions and mistakes.

  19. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by Diocletian View Post
    I took the advice and have booked a lesson with this guy:

    http://www.mapex.co.uk/artists/george-henry/


    Nice, lessons are a way to go!
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    RIP Frank - You will be remembered

  20. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by Larrysperf View Post
    Now this is what DRUM CHAT is all about
    Right on larry
    Paiste Posse
    14inch 2002 series Sound Edge Hi-hats
    16inch and 18inch Signature series Fast crashes
    20inch 3000 series Ride
    18inch PST5 series China

    Pearl Forum Series drum set
    Pearl Chad Smith Signature snare(steel shell)
    Tama Iron Cobra Chrome

    RIP Frank - You will be remembered

  21. #21

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    Thanks for all the replies guys. Yeah I was just talking about basic beats in general, for now. I DID try to keep up with Maiden (although it was Clive Burr, on "Wrathcild") but gave up after about three seconds, I just could not get my head around it!

    I'm getting there though, me and the guys from the Tim "Ripper" Owens forum are doing a cover version of Dio's "Last In Line" as a tribute to the wee man, and I've done the bass, guitars and drums for that, and they don't sound too bad at all.

    What I did find is that, unlike the guitar, it's easier to play drums sober.

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