Foreign Manufacturers

[oaktree137]

Why is it that instruments made in foreign countries such as China go for so much lower prices, but still have good quality? For example I got my Pearl Vision kit, and the guy at the music store said that it has most of the features of the higher-end American made Pearl MCX line, but its just cheaper because its made in a foreign country and shipped to America. Similar to this, cymbal companies such as Wuhan and Dream make good quality, even professional cymbals that sell for remarkably low prices.... any thoughts? As far as I'm concerned maybe people should take more advantage of this!

[Northern Redneck]

Lower labour costs.

[rabidpenguin45]

Why is it that instruments made in foreign countries such as China go for so much lower prices, but still have good quality? For example I got my Pearl Vision kit, and the guy at the music store said that it has most of the features of the higher-end American made Pearl MCX line, but its just cheaper because its made in a foreign country and shipped to America. Similar to this, cymbal companies such as Wuhan and Dream make good quality, even professional cymbals that sell for remarkably low prices.... any thoughts? As far as I'm concerned maybe people should take more advantage of this!

Well, it is a combination of a few things.

1) The Visions do not have all the same features as the Masters line. They use 1.6mm triple flanged hoops instead of die-casts and I.S.S. mounts instead of Optimounts.

2) Labor is cheaper in China. Alot cheaper. Especially with companies wanting to keep costs down as much as possible, this is a good option. Quality may be questionable at times, but for most companies is pretty solid.

[Pearl MCX Man]

MCX Masters are made in Taiwan not in the U.S.A. The Maple comes from America and shipped to Taiwan for assembly and shipped to suppliers from around the world. Anything made in China is cheap in my opinion.

[yohin]

NR nailed it...they don't have to pay the workers in China as much as the ones in the US, so they can sell the drums for less.

[xsabers]

Not to mention the levels of expenses that are the result of bureaucracy in the form of taxes, permits, and just the cost of doing business domestically.

[Scottie_Guns]

There's also a learning curve with manufacturing anything.

What was considered cheap and low quality coming from China in the past is in many cases (today) as good as what (little) is still manufactured in the USA. As an example, if you build your own drums for 30 years, do you think your quality will be better in year 30 than in year 1?

It's only a matter of time before the manufacturing quality levels btwn USA and China made drums (for example) intersect. I read recently that Tama flagship Starclassics are going to be made in China. First time I've heard of any top end kit being made there (except maybe Mapex). I'm guessing Tama execs are confident in the quality level.

This opinion is coming from someone with 15 years of aerospace manufacturing (global) experience, who also prefers American made drums (Brady's are my exception, of course).

[nio]

There's also a learning curve with manufacturing anything.

What was considered cheap and low quality coming from China in the past is in many cases (today) as good as what (little) is still manufactured in the USA. As an example, if you build your own drums for 30 years, do you think your quality will be better in year 30 than in year 1?

It's only a matter of time before the manufacturing quality levels btwn USA and China made drums (for example) intersect. I read recently that Tama flagship Starclassics are going to be made in China. First time I've heard of any top end kit being made there (except maybe Mapex). I'm guessing Tama execs are confident in the quality level.

This opinion is coming from someone with 15 years of aerospace manufacturing (global) experience, who also prefers American made drums (Brady's are my exception, of course).

..and as labor cost stays low in China, it only makes sense for companies to move their manufacturing. Good for the company, good for the consumer, but not necessarily good for US economy since we lose the jobs....

[2slow]

unions

[MartyM]

Call me old fashion....BUY AMERICAN! especially now in these times...

[kaosotis]

It's a nice sentiment Marty. What's hard is telling what that means anymore. Many "import" cars are built right here, for example. Even "foreign manufacturers" employ US workers here for importing, advertising, warehousing, distribution, etc...

Whole new world!

We should also be careful about assuming that built in the US means better. What people really mean is built in the US "by hand" or "custom". Gretsch USA are hand built drums, with high end hardware, etc... Personally I doubt they are better quality than hand built Tamas, for example, just because they are built here. It's about expertise, etc...

[Russ]

So yeah, gonna have to disagree a little. Yamaha is an undeniable industry leader and makes their drums in Osaka and Indonesia, but quality for them has so far been excellent. The thing is, you can make a drum here or you can make a drum there but if the craftsman knows what he's doing it's going to come out nicely. Tama is made in both Japan and China, and Mapex is made in Taiwan. Though they are made in other nations, the factories are well experienced in their craft and continue to make excellent offerings that will make their customers happy for years to come.

[Martinez12]

So yeah, gonna have to disagree a little. Yamaha is an undeniable industry leader and makes their drums in Osaka and Indonesia, but quality for them has so far been excellent. The thing is, you can make a drum here or you can make a drum there but if the craftsman knows what he's doing it's going to come out nicely. Tama is made in both Japan and China, and Mapex is made in Taiwan. Though they are made in other nations, the factories are well experienced in their craft and continue to make excellent offerings that will make their customers happy for years to come.

I totally agree with this, It's all about quality, Yamaha is pretty expensive compared to other brands, and they're still foreign. But they know what they're doing and they have awesome quality

[ThePloughman]

This has happened in dozens of industries.

And this is why you can buy those "QUALITY" drumsets at such rediculously low prices.

Those people making your drums are working for below average wages, even in china.

[xsabers]

mmm, seems an overly broad claim when we are talking about a specific industry that requires skilled labor. The billions of plastic trinkets that can be ordered by the gross likely play a part in the average wage chart.

I own two quality kits that were made in the same factory in Asia. I bought them solely based on price and quality. If I had to wait until I could afford U.S. made drums, I might still be waiting.

[ThePloughman]

There is very little skill here.
Someone grades shells, Wrap or Lacquer.
Someone sands shells.
They get sent to the finisher, who is working without any respiratory protection from teh paints and lacquers. Because there really is no EPA, no OSHA, no Union, and no one that cares. He can be replaced in about 2 days. The guy makes less that 4K a freaking YEAR, he doesnt own a tv. He can barely read or write, he has no education. He has no real skill. He has learned a process that can be taught to anyone they please tomorrow.
They come back from the finisher and someone throws them on a table that cuts edges. A whole lot of skill there.
Someone else throws them in a jig which drills all the holes without any measuring, skill, thought, or even inteligence. The guy is most likely daydreaming about some hot chick he would like to mess with, doesnt care about drums, doesnt play drums, and frankly........ heh, if he messes up, who is going to really notice?
Someone else screws hardware onto prefinished, predrilled shells, and at night he has nightmares about screws.
The badge and grommet goes on, it gets sent to packaging, and then a container ship brings it to America where people who want to save money and really dont care how they have saved money, will pay a grand for a set that has a total worth of 49.00.

And if any one of those dudes gets sick or injuried........... he is replaced. Because theres over a billion people in his country and finding a replacement isnt really all that hard.

And besides, if it was such a rose garden, every manufacturer would be bragging it up about how well paid, how well treated, and how well appreciated their factory workers are.

I dont think weve ever seen anything close to that.

So, just to be fair.....
Name one product, one industry, one item..... where the american labor was offshored, and the price dropped 75%. The claim by industry operators is that american labor is too expensive. The real truth is chinese and indonesian labor costs are below any acceptable standard. They have not passed on the savings to the US. Products are still sold at the same prices from BEFORE those products were offshored.

[kay-gee]

[QUOTE=oaktree137;300787]Why is it that instruments made in foreign countries such as China go for so much lower prices, but still have good quality? For example I got my Pearl Vision kit, and the guy at the music store said that it has most of the features of the higher-end American made Pearl MCX line, but its just cheaper because its made in a foreign country and shipped to America. Similar to this, cymbal companies such as Wuhan and Dream make good quality, even professional cymbals that sell for remarkably low prices.... any thoughts? As far as I'm concerned maybe people should take more advantage of this!

Exactly why your economy is in the toilet.

all the best...

[xsabers]

There is very little skill here.
Someone grades shells, Wrap or Lacquer.
Someone sands shells.
They get sent to the finisher, who is working without any respiratory protection from teh paints and lacquers. Because there really is no EPA, no OSHA, no Union, and no one that cares. He can be replaced in about 2 days. The guy makes less that 4K a freaking YEAR, he doesnt own a tv. He can barely read or write, he has no education. He has no real skill. He has learned a process that can be taught to anyone they please tomorrow.
They come back from the finisher and someone throws them on a table that cuts edges. A whole lot of skill there.
Someone else throws them in a jig which drills all the holes without any measuring, skill, thought, or even inteligence. The guy is most likely daydreaming about some hot chick he would like to mess with, doesnt care about drums, doesnt play drums, and frankly........ heh, if he messes up, who is going to really notice?
Someone else screws hardware onto prefinished, predrilled shells, and at night he has nightmares about screws.
The badge and grommet goes on, it gets sent to packaging, and then a container ship brings it to America where people who want to save money and really dont care how they have saved money, will pay a grand for a set that has a total worth of 49.00.

And if any one of those dudes gets sick or injuried........... he is replaced. Because theres over a billion people in his country and finding a replacement isnt really all that hard.

And besides, if it was such a rose garden, every manufacturer would be bragging it up about how well paid, how well treated, and how well appreciated their factory workers are.

I dont think weve ever seen anything close to that.

So, just to be fair.....
Name one product, one industry, one item..... where the american labor was offshored, and the price dropped 75%. The claim by industry operators is that american labor is too expensive. The real truth is chinese and indonesian labor costs are below any acceptable standard. They have not passed on the savings to the US. Products are still sold at the same prices from BEFORE those products were offshored.

So if it so easy to put together drums, I suppose the same lack of any specific skill set exists in U.S. companies.

The market sets the price, not the manufacturing costs.

If anyone want to check out the MAPEX facility, you can get an idea about their organization, just Google search KHS Music. They are ISO 9000 - 2001 certified. To maintain this certification, they must operate under strict code of ethics. In fact, there is an action plan for doing business in developing countries. This is not some sweatshop using slave labor.

[itchie]

guess what?

America isn't the centre of the universe..wow

[drumnpk]

guess what?

America isn't the centre of the universe..wow

+1 I'm not anti American i have family in Seattle and i love visiting the U.S. and i don't want to turn this into a Political Thread but you have to admit that a vast amount of Americans think that if it's not made in America it's crap..

[nio]

+1 I'm not anti American i have family in Seattle and i love visiting the U.S. and i don't want to turn this into a Political Thread but you have to admit that a vast amount of Americans think that if it's not made in America it's crap..

That's not true. Take me for example. Most American's like me just look for the best quality that we can afford. My electronics are mostly from Asia, my cars are from Germany, my computers are American, etc... My drums are from American and German companies, but build in Asia. We're not millionaires so we buy "used" rather than "new" if they are available.

[xsabers]

+1 I'm not anti American i have family in Seattle and i love visiting the U.S. and i don't want to turn this into a Political Thread but you have to admit that a vast amount of Americans think that if it's not made in America it's crap..

You must admit though, that there is a reason based on history. For years and years, many imported goods were simply cheap imitations of their quality counterparts. Go to New York and buy a "Rolex" watch if you want an example. It wasn't about the cheap labor, it was about unscrupulous businesses and lack of standards and oversight. Those problems do still exist, but it is incorrect to label all imported products as inferior just because they are from a specific region.

Hey, and while America may not be the center of the universe, you can see it from here...

[drumnpk]

You must admit though, that there is a reason based on history. For years and years, many imported goods were simply cheap imitations of their quality counterparts. Go to New York and buy a "Rolex" watch if you want an example. It wasn't about the cheap labor, it was about unscrupulous businesses and lack of standards and oversight. Those problems do still exist, but it is incorrect to label all imported products as inferior just because they are from a specific region.

Hey, and while America may not be the center of the universe, you can see it from here...

Point taken..

[Russ]

Might be out of US, but these other nations sure know what they're doing. Good work is good work in the end, right? It's truly a shame these workers aren't paid correctly for the quality of work that they do, but that's not something we can help. All we can do is support our favorite company and be a part of the world of drumming. We shouldn't feel guilty for finding a good deal on a good set of drums.

[itchie]

this thread is full of assumptions

i don't think you guy understand how much cheaper it is to live in china