How fast are your single strokes???

[Nik276]

For at least 30 seconds, what's the fastest bpm(in 16th notes) you can go without those techniques like moeller and stuff?

I can only go 170bpm
I want to get to at least 200.

[atomcorr2]

how do you count them ?

[kaosotis]

And why do you count them? I've never considered drumming a race.

[drummer]

Kao, I don't think his mindset is to race but rather measure his progress.

[Nik276]

Yeah, what drummer said. I'm not trying race anyone or compete.

Let me try to rephrase the question.
What's the fastest bpm you can go with your single stroke rolls?
I hope that made sense.

atomcorr2 - with a metronome and a clock

[kaosotis]

Kao, I don't think his mindset is to race but rather measure his progress.

Sorry if that came off as snotty. I guess I just was never in the mindset of specifically measuring the speed of my playing to gauge progress. It was and is more about specific patterns, techniques, and beats, (as if I actually practice enough anymore). I think I'm showing my age .

Sorry Nik, I can't be of any help with numbers. I think SGD measure his double kick speed, so he might be of help.

[Nik276]

Sorry if that came off as snotty. I guess I just was never in the mindset of specifically measuring the speed of my playing to gauge progress. It was and is more about specific patterns, techniques, and beats, (as if I actually practice enough anymore). I think I'm showing my age .

Sorry Nik, I can't be of any help with numbers. I think SGD measure his double kick speed, so he might be of help.

haha it's fine man

[xsabers]

You mention BPM but you don't indicate if you are playing 16th notes, 32nd notes or whatever?

[Nik276]

You mention BPM but you don't indicate if you are playing 16th notes, 32nd notes or whatever?

oh oops. my bad. wow this thread is a mess.
16th notes

[esmith]

It doesn't matter what the value of each note is if your goal is to count BPM.
Assuming they are all evenly spaced the value of the notes mean nothing.

120 bpm is 120 bpm, doesn't matter if I claim they are 8th, 16th or 32nd notes.

Speed for speed's sake is NOT music and does NOT make anyone a musician. There is however (as sad as it is) a group of people that somehow see a virtue in slamming the tips of the sticks into a practice pad attached to a BPM meter and actually want to call themselves drummers for doing this useless exercise.

I think Drummers who play music should make every effort to distance themselves from those who do not. If we do not, then "The Worlds Fastest Drummer" will be a guy who cannot play a single song nor owns anything but a practice pad with a speedometer on it.

-eSmith.

[funkyruss]

How do you tell if you're playing 16ths,32nds etc at speeds this fast? You count beats playing this fast?

[kaosotis]

It doesn't matter what the value of each note is if your goal is to count BPM.
Assuming they are all evenly spaced the value of the notes mean nothing.

120 bpm is 120 bpm, doesn't matter if I claim they are 8th, 16th or 32nd notes.

Speed for speed's sake is NOT music and does NOT make anyone a musician. There is however (as sad as it is) a group of people that somehow see a virtue in slamming the tips of the sticks into a practice pad attached to a BPM meter and actually want to call themselves drummers for doing this useless exercise.

I think Drummers who play music should make every effort to distance themselves from those who do not. If we do not, then "The Worlds Fastest Drummer" will be a guy who cannot play a single song nor owns anything but a practice pad with a speedometer on it.

-eSmith.

Well your reaction was a little stronger than mine, but I had a similar thought. I don't think he just wants to play faster and faster, I think he wants to be able to measure how his speed is progressing.

Just FYI, 200 bpm doing single stroke rolls isn't particularly fast so I don't think this is a speed metal thing. When Johnny Rabb set the record it was over 1000 bpm single stroke! I think if I had realized that, I would have had a different reaction.

Going back to Nik, my advice would be to just work on improving your speed on all your rudiments, and maybe not worry about numbers. My teacher had my brother and I always do the "train" technique, which is to start slow, speed up to your comfortable upper limit, then slow down (like a train approaching, passing, and leaving).

Also, why not use something like Moehler? It's not actually that fast compared to using your fingers, but it's helpful in playing the kit.

[cole1paul]

It doesn't matter what the value of each note is if your goal is to count BPM.
Assuming they are all evenly spaced the value of the notes mean nothing.

120 bpm is 120 bpm, doesn't matter if I claim they are 8th, 16th or 32nd notes.

Actually, it means everything. It determines how many strokes will be within each beat. If you're at 120 bpm, the note value relates to the pulse, which we have, so 32nds would be twice as fast as 16ths. He's not saying speed = music, he's just trying to set goals for himself to improve his chops.

[funkyruss]

Actually, it means everything. It determines how many strokes will be within each beat. If you're at 120 bpm, the note value relates to the pulse, which we have, so 32nds would be twice as fast as 16ths. He's not saying speed = music, he's just trying to set goals for himself to improve his chops.

Can ya count that while at 200 bpm? 1000 bpm?
good stuff in this thread

[cole1paul]

...are you supposed to be able to count them out loud or something? Because I can count those at 200, most drummers should be able to feel it. Saying 1000 is silly because it doesn't allow for subdivision.

[funkyruss]

yes, saying 1000 is silly, because it doesn't allow for subdivisions...........in the shopping malls

[cole1paul]

Is that a joke? I don't get it...

[kaosotis]

I'm with eSmith, there isn't a difference between length of notes, since there is no defined tempo. Without a set tempo, how can you determine whether it's a whole note, a quarter note. 16th notes aren't necessarily faster than 8th notes if the tempo isn't the same, they are just a smaller piece of a whole measure. For example, playing 16th notes at a tempo of 60 is going to be slower than playing 8th notes at a tempo of 180.

The way people usually measure the super fast stuff is with a special meter that registers the hits on the pad.

As for the "shopping malls" line CP we now know you aren't a Rush fan .

[deadskinny]

Wow, you guys are mixin' this one up big time LOL. It's a simple thing. Nik276 says he can play 16th notes for at least a minute at 170 BPM on the metro. This means he's getting in 680 hit's (or notes) in one minute's time. At 200 BPM he would be getting in 800 hits (or notes). Being able to play single stroke sixteenth notes at high speed for more than a few measures without getting off the beat is not a useless skill, and it's not just some junk that metal heads fool around with.

In order to keep up that keep up that kind of speed with out messing up would require a lot of practice. What you would gain in reaching this level of drum roll skill would be better coordination, stronger forearms hence endurance, and the ability to fly around the drum kit a lot faster and cleaner than you could before. Speed is just one more thing we can practice to be better players.

p.s. The guy who get's off 1000 is playing at 250 BPM. If my math is correct on all this, thats better than sixteen hits per second. Hat's off!

[esmith]

Exactly my point kaosotis.

DeadSkinny. The resultant BPM "IS" the number of strokes played in a minute. Not tempo.

So, if you HIT a pad 200 times in a minute, you hit it 200 times. You can't hit it 200 times (remember the meter only counts strokes, not average pulse) call it 16th notes and claim 800 hits. 200 is 200.

IF the player were playing 16th notes against a known pulse (such as 200) then of course you would be correct if you calculated number of strokes you played by multiplying the known pulse value (200) X the division of the note (16 = 4 beats per quarter note.) and you would be right at 800.

See the difference? the OP stated playing as many notes in a 30 second window as possiable. He did not give us a tempo to stick to. if he did it would be all math. If he said "How many notes did I play if I played for 30 seconds at 200 bpm quarter note pulse?" Then you would be correct saying you NEED to know what note value each note he played was in order to know how many he played.

In this case though, the value of the note does not matter at all.

-eSmith.

[atomcorr2]

16 hits per second ???? is that possible ?????

[Riverr1]

Counting BPM is determined by the time signature. Standard 4\4 is 4 beats per measure, and the quarter note gets one beat or count. Playing quarter notes at 100 bpm equals 100 strokes per minute. 8th notes equals 200 strokes per minute. 16th notes equals 400 strokes per minute, and 32nd notes equals 800 strokes per minute. Yes, what note you are playing makes a big difference when counting strokes.

Thinking the note value doesn't matter is silly. What would the reference for counting be without a value? If you're playing in 6\8, the above numbers don't mean anything since the 8th note gets 1 count rather then the quarter note.

As far as counting goes, you don't count 16th or 32nd notes. Same as after you've been playing awhile, you don't count the e, and, or ah's. You recognize the pattern and play it off of 1, 2, 3 and 4 only. Another invaluable experience from lessons and reading.

[rabidpenguin45]

I can play 16th's at 210 bpm without incorporating any fingers, wrists only. I'm sure that number would be higher with fingers, but I was not sure if you considered using fingers "other techniques".

[funkyruss]

oh yah its a lot clearer now

[cole1paul]

No, BPM isn't the strokes in a minute, it's your pulse. THEN you subdivide it with either 8ths, 16ths, whatever.

EDIT: Thank you Riverr, I think they get it now.