Recording Practice

[kaosotis]

So we decided recently to try recording practice to have covers to give to bars, post online, etc... to get gigs. We have songs on video, but people always seem to just want to listen. We figured that was the easiest way to do it. Turns out we weren't quite right about the easy part.

We are basically using the aux outputs from our mixer to do a 2 track output (one instrument premix, one vocal premix) in to the 2 channels on a Presonus Audiobox. All instruments are mic'd, including drums.

The challenge has been getting the levels good since everything has to be premixed. The room acoustics aren't great at all, and so rather than just use the main output, we are using different levels on the aux channels to get a good sound. Part of the issue the ongoing struggle of the guitarists "not being able to hear themselves".

After much trial and error at 2 practices, we kind of had to put it on the back burner to actually practice for some upcoming shows.

This is probably the result we've gotten so far. I did some EQ and FX in my DAW to make it sound much better than the raw audio. http://www.youtube.com/user/halfwayt.../1/6IqtsUCpnpg.

So here's my question. HELP! Any advice about a better way to pull this off? We haven't tried just using two room mics yet, so I know we can do that. I'm just worried that it's going to be very muddy.

Any recommendations will be helpful.

[nucjd]

Hey Kaosotis.
One thing I would do is record everyone separately with a click track and adjust levels in the box and carve out the eq's in the box on the software. This would tackle a few problems. Number one guitarist can NEVER hear themselves. I don't know if it is the psychology of being a guitarist or they stand too close to the cabinets over the years. You can crank it up as loud as you like while they are tracking and once in the box. eq out the "brown frequencies" and put the levels appropriate to the mix. Number two by recording separately you will have different tracks for each instrument which allows better adjustment and a better final product. Anyway your practice session was not bad at all and I am betting you will have some killer mixes as you get more and more used to this aspect of music.

[kaosotis]

N,

Thanks for the feedback. I'm actually fine at tracking, although not as experienced as you! We've had a PCI based 8 channel interface for a very long time and recorded some halfway decent stuff for basement recordings.

The problem is two-fold. One, the band doesn't want to pay to buy a new USB 8 channel interface. I think we should, but I'm outnumbered. So we're using my 2 channel interface. Two, the bassist refuses to record the proper way. He feels it's a waste of time, and in his defense we're better when we play together in terms of energy, etc... He's even fought the idea of recording vocals separately! Suffice it to say he's a difficult person at times.

I've even proposed to doing some live recording in an inexpensive studio, so that we can record it all on separate tracks and then mix it. I seem to be the only one in the band who gets we have to spend $ to get gigs. And this after 23 years together.

Seems like I'm stuck with recording the way we are. Any thoughts on making it better/easier to get a good mix?

[Cant Get Enough]

If you got the money buy a mixer with direct outs record everything (practices) to HD24XR, get a headphone amp and let your guitarist create his own mix through sub groups. When you record something you think was good mix it down to a cd recorder and create a redbook cd

With the HD24XR you can go back and redo any track you want without the other bandmates and make it close to perfect and or dump the tracks to Cubase or what have you and mixdown in a more advanced enviroment.
It took me 4 or 5 years lots of questions and books before I learned enough to where I was happy with the outcome (CD quality)

[kaosotis]

We have a mixer with direct outs. If the band won't spend $400-$500 on a 8 track USB interface (which is all we need to record 8 channels live), what makes you think they would spend $1600 on the HDXR24?

We have a PCI interface, but it's old and doesn't work great. Plus have to use the old PC we have. Laptop is faster and easier.

In the end I think the best bet is to somehow convince the band to buy a new interface.

[nucjd]

We have a mixer with direct outs. If the band won't spend $400-$500 on a 8 track USB interface (which is all we need to record 8 channels live), what makes you think they would spend $1600 on the HDXR24?

We have a PCI interface, but it's old and doesn't work great. Plus have to use the old PC we have. Laptop is faster and easier.

In the end I think the best bet is to somehow convince the band to buy a new interface.

I would then keep an eye out on ebay or a used 002, presonus firestudio, etc. you can snatch up a lot of good gear for cheap in the A/D domain as the stuff is always getting upgraded by the manufacturers.

[kaosotis]

That's a good idea, didn't actually think of getting one used. Maybe if it's cheap enough I can make my case.

My laptop doesn't have firewire. Is there a USB interface you'd recommend. I believe the Tascam 1641 is supposed to be good.

[nucjd]

Alright did some research on USB ( I have not recorded in quite a while without firewire). It looks like Tascam would be the interface that would have the number of inputs you would need (8). The Tascam 1641 has 8 xlr inputs, usb and comes with cubase. The price point new is very reasonable.

[funkyruss]

That's a good idea, didn't actually think of getting one used. Maybe if it's cheap enough I can make my case.

My laptop doesn't have firewire. Is there a USB interface you'd recommend. I believe the Tascam 1641 is supposed to be good.

I have one of these tascams, and together with Adobe Audition 3.0, the issue with them isn't when you're recording ie. latency, the issues occur when adding a bunch of rack effects to your mix,and using the tascam as your soundcard, via usb. It totally bogs down, and is useless. To get around this, I just switch to my pci soundcard in both software, and from the tascam headphone output to the pci card's speaker output (green).
Hope i did good, 'cause its beyond my bedtime.....

[kaosotis]

Thanks guys. The Tascam was the way I was leaning too. I'd rather firewire but laptop doesn't have it. I might look in to a Firewire PC Card too, which would give me more options.

Even if the band doesn't want to invest, I might consider getting the Tascam for me to use at home as well.

Too bad I can't just afford a new laptop and an interface!

[nucjd]

Yeah funkyruss latency is the big downside with usb. The good news for kaosotis is he is straight recording his whole band at once and I suspect once the levels are set he is going to hit record and forget about the system untill the song is over and play the song listening to each other through the amps and pa rig rather than the headphones running through the tascam. If they do listen through the headphones it is going to drive everyone playing up the wall.

[kaosotis]

You are spot on. The hope is to record live, then mix later!

I'd love to record properly, but we don't really have the time or patience right now. That's why I was thinking hitting a studio for a quick session for a few hours would be best, but I was voted down b/c of $ (and the bassist thinks we can do it ourselves as well, which we can't).

[Cant Get Enough]

There's no latency issues with the HD24XR. Just Kidding

[chafey]

so is a four track out of the question?

[Cant Get Enough]

You are spot on. The hope is to record live, then mix later!

I'd love to record properly, but we don't really have the time or patience right now. That's why I was thinking hitting a studio for a quick session for a few hours would be best, but I was voted down b/c of $ (and the bassist thinks we can do it ourselves as well, which we can't).

Then go get one of the older style VHS type ADAT 8 track recorders and run from your direct outs

have a buddy that only records with them.
Tapes are cheap and you can mix back through your mixer to a simple sony cd recorder.
I have seen them for a little as $100
New ones are $800

[Geo Rose]

You are spot on. The hope is to record live, then mix later!

I'd love to record properly, but we don't really have the time or patience right now. That's why I was thinking hitting a studio for a quick session for a few hours would be best, but I was voted down b/c of $ (and the bassist thinks we can do it ourselves as well, which we can't).

You were voted down! I can give you advice on a great studio that is pretty flexible if you want. It's always better to hand venues a professionally done CD, than a home done one. Believe me they will hear the difference. I'm totally for you guys recording your practices.