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Thread: Accents

  1. #1

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    Okay just a question on Accents.

    I heard a song today, and i was listening to it and it had ghost notes on the bass pedal. So what i was doing to achieve this was to just use heal down on the ghost parts and then heal up on the normal parts. But then I tried using heal up on both the ghosts and normal parts (just be softer on the ghost notes) and I found myself trying to hit the hi-hat lighter as i was hitting by bass drum lighter, is this something that you just need to coordinate? did you guys experience this? and are these actually ghost notes or is it Dynamics?

    don't ask why i thought it was called dynamics, it just sorta rang a bell in my head, those really small bells. lol.

  2. #2

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    Dynamics is really just a term that (generally, when talking to a drumner, at least) applies to utilising the full range of volume-levels. A ghost note is just a quiet note, so yes, a ghost note does use 'dynamics' by definition.

    The problem you're getting with hitting the hi-hat lighter when you hit the bass drum lighter is really common and happens to everyone - your hi-hat hand becomes wedded to your bass drum foot in a weird way (I really noticed this when learning to play left-handed - it's hard to separate your hi-hat hand from your bass drum).

    The best way to overcome it is to do some interpendence exercises that make you 'separate' (playing-wise) your limbs more than usual. My favourite is Herman Vogt's coordinated independence (available free in PDF format here: http://www.hvogt.de/drums/patterns.html ), which starts simply, and gradually adds complexity. It's easy to learn, and it's based on actual drum beats - so it's also fun to play, and you get a lot of new beat ideas from it.

  3. #3

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    thanks jobby! those exercises look great. i just printed them out. just by looking at it, those ride variations and snare combinations look like alot of fun to play. im going to practice those really slow


  4. #4

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    Hey Jobby,

    Thanks for the link, man. They look like sweet exercises.

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  5. #5

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    all this looks great but im not sure how to read it.. i get the notes but what do those upside down L things mean inbetween the beats? and should i try and use all tempos when im trying to do thesE?

  6. #6

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lafirin
    all this looks great but im not sure how to read it.. i get the notes but what do those upside down L things mean inbetween the beats? and should i try and use all tempos when im trying to do thesE?


    im not exactly sure what you mean by the "L" things but i think your talking about the bass drum pattern. basically, ill try and explain this the best i can;

    the upside down "L" is a rest and suggests that the bass drum is not played.

    as far as tempos goes.... i will personally play as slow as i can to start off with and really feel and concentrate on what each limb is doing to develop the independance.

    the top line 'x' is ride cymbal
    the coloured dot on the second line is snare pattern
    then the bottom line coloured dot is bass pattern ( just pay attention to the actually dot, the line that joins it only suggests that the bass is not played until the next coloured dot and remember those little upside down L's are rests where the bass drum is not played )
    then the 'x' at the bottom is your foot on the hi-hat.


    so for example the first exercise in part 1 (basics) is played

    ride - 1e+a2e+a3e+a4e+a
    snare on all the ands
    bass on the 1 2 3 4
    foot on hi- hat plays on all the ands

    i hope this clears it up but like i said im not sure if we are talking about the same thing.

    Last edited by livewire80; 04-11-2007 at 06:55 PM.

  7. #7

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    okay thats atully exatcy what i was asking, i was just wondering why you would play ther high hat too, but since i know its the pedal, its all clear now. accept how does this help your ghost notes on the bass drum, its just beat like any other :S

  8. #8

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    It won't help you play ghost notes on the bass drum - what it will do is help you when you want to play ghost notes on the bass drum without altering how hard/light you hit the hi-hats when you do it.

  9. #9

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    ohhhh okay

  10. #10

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    one last question, by high hat pedal, you mean atually opening the hi hat by letting go on the pedal. Im almsot 100% this is what you mean but just double checking

  11. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lafirin
    one last question, by high hat pedal, you mean atually opening the hi hat by letting go on the pedal. Im almsot 100% this is what you mean but just double checking
    ok. if you are right handed. close the hi-hat with your left foot on the pedal on all the 'ands' .

    is that a good explanation?

    it may feel awkward but thats what the purpose of the independance exerices are. to make awkward beats feel natural.

  12. #12

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    ahhhh! I see it now, it was hard at first because I have already practiced some of my opening and closing of the hi hat. What i mean by that is playing the hi hat on all the 'ands' playing in 8th notes. But the exercises a bit down from there look confusing! so thanks livewire80, oh.. one more thing, any suggestions on the speed i should be playing them at? like 110-120 bpm 8th notes?

  13. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lafirin
    ahhhh! I see it now, it was hard at first
    i meant it wasn't hard at first

  14. #14

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    well when im learning independance, some of those exerices i have to start about 50bpm so i can play them slow. when i can play them very smooth i increase the speed. whatever feels comfortable in my opinion. i personally usually like to take the speed up to about the 120bpm.

    just feel free to ask anything on any of the exercises if some of it is confusing latter on as you mentioned and im glad to be of assistance if i can assist.

  15. #15

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    You know, we may be thinking alike or not. I always thought for the longest time that I was hearing ghost notes on a bass in some songs. I just bought this DVD that explains it quite. If we're talking about the same thing, the ghost note your hearing is actually played on the snare right before a kick. I'm probably talking about something totally different though.

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  16. #16

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    well that could be the case for some songs, but I think the things I'm hearing are actually the bass drum. thats a good thing to think about when listening to songs though :o. and live wire, thanks for the help (and future help if i need it) most likely will.. I just want to start off on the right foot because i'm actually gonna put this indapendance stuff into my practice schedules.

  17. #17

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    and live wire, thanks for the help (and future help if i need it) most likely will.. I just want to start off on the right foot because i'm actually gonna put this indapendance stuff into my practice schedules.[/QUOTE]

    anytime!

  18. #18

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    In the very first part of the coordination page, its got Four groups together in the 'left hand' section and four groups on the 'right hand' part, do i play each line seperatly or altogether?

  19. #19

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    play them together. all the cover page is showing is the combinations over the next 9 pages. for example

    the combination of the first bar on the left for right hand and the first bar on the left for left hand and so on for right foot and left foot. so bar 1 3 5 and 7 going down the left of the page is actually the first exercise of the independance exercises if you have a look at it carefully.

    what i have done is gone straight to the exercises and just looked at the first page for an idea of different combinations i will be playing throughout the 128 exercises.

    hope this helps mate.
    Last edited by livewire80; 04-14-2007 at 08:42 PM.

  20. #20

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    Alright so the ones going down the page numbered 1 3 5 7 9 11...... all the way to 127 is the 1st row I should concentrate on and then the other row i will do after the 1st row is done? (the ones numbered 2 4 6 8 10)... etc.?

  21. #21

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    i think we might be talkin about two different things. let me try to clarify.
    i thought you were talking about the very first page under the heading of "coordinated independance part 1-basics" the four groups there for right hand and left hand....are the combinations that you will be playing over the exercises 1-128. basically just start playing from exercise 1 and go throught to 128 in order would be better 1 2 3 4 5 .... 128.

  22. #22

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    alright i got it now, we just had some communication failures :P

  23. #23

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    OMG - this is GREAT! exactly what I need to get to the next level - I just got to use some control and try not to rush things (my biggest problem). Could the hi-hat be swapped for another bass pedal? do you think this would be benficial for double bass techniques (my biggest thing ATM that I want to get control and speed over)?

    Part 2 (advanced) looks insane.
    "What consumes your mind, controls your life" - So, what consumes your mind?

  24. #24

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    another question. should i practice the things that are already comfortable ?

  25. #25

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lafirin
    another question. should i practice the things that are already comfortable ?
    Yeah - do it faster (but still solid).

    The great thing about the development of the exercises is that they are using the same patterns, but progressively get harder.

    After you've finished with these, you can move to the next step in independence and check out the Marco Minneman 'extreme interdependence' stuff - now THAT is hard. I've been working my way through it for ages.

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