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Thread: Never really learned this...

  1. #1

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    Default Never really learned this...

    Quick question. In general what kind of sound will you get out of a tom if you tune the batter tight and the rezo loose? The same? Batter loose, rezo tight? Ive never really noticed a difference in mine.
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  2. #2

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    Default Re: Never really learned this...

    Constinator, it has always been my understanding that the batter head will affect the sound of the attack, and the resonant head with affect the sound of the resonance.
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  3. #3

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    Default Re: Never really learned this...

    I could never understand the theory behind this I just go for what sounds the best and to me it's reso tighter than batter.

  4. #4

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    Default Re: Never really learned this...

    http://home.earthlink.net/~prof.sound/index.html

    Not perfect, but definitely a great tool to use/gain wisdom from.
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  5. #5
    dave0549jv Guest

    Default Re: Never really learned this...

    If you tune the reso to a different pitch than the batter, you'll get a pitch bend kindof effect. the sound will actually change as it resonates, it will either 'boing' up or down... if that makes sense. at least thats what i've experienced

  6. #6

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    Default Re: Never really learned this...

    Quote Originally Posted by dave0549jv View Post
    If you tune the reso to a different pitch than the batter, you'll get a pitch bend kindof effect. the sound will actually change as it resonates, it will either 'boing' up or down... if that makes sense. at least thats what i've experienced
    I agree, I've never been a fan of tuning the batter and reso differently...I hate that "boing" effect. To me, the reso should provide support to the batter sound. I also like knowing that the same tone from behind drums is the same as in front of the drums.

  7. #7

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    Default Re: Never really learned this...

    Quote Originally Posted by nio View Post
    I agree, I've never been a fan of tuning the batter and reso differently...I hate that "boing" effect. To me, the reso should provide support to the batter sound. I also like knowing that the same tone from behind drums is the same as in front of the drums.
    +1 here

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  8. #8

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    Default Re: Never really learned this...

    I learned a bit about the concept of resonance in electronics. I actually wasn't very good at electronics so this explanation probably isn't perfect but it'll help you get the basic idea.

    Think of a child on a swing with a parent behind them pushing them. If the parent pushes at just the right time on each swing, the child gains more and more energy and swings higher and higher. The child is resonating at the parent's push frequency. They are at the same frequency and in-phase. In-phase means the parent's push is timed just right.

    Now let's assume the parent pushes at exactly the right time but on every other swing of the child. The child still gains energy and swings higher, but not as high as the above example. The child is resonating at a harmonic of the parent's frequency. They are still in-phase (i.e. the pushes that do contact the child are timed just right. The other pushes completely miss the child and neither add energy nor remove energy from the child).

    Now let's saw the parent pushes at the same frequency but at exactly the wrong time. The parent's energy would directly oppose the child's energy and the child would quickly be brought to a stop. They child and parent are at the same frequency but they are directly out-of-phase.

    Let's say the parent pushed at a completely different frequency than the child swings at. Some pushes might land at the perfect time and add energy to the child. Some pushes will end up pushing against the child and slowing the child down. Some swings will miss the child complety. This would create a pattern of in-phase pushes, out-of-phase pushes and misses that would eventually repeat over and over again.

    When you tune both heads to the same frequency the greatest amount of energy is bounced back and forth. This results in the greatest amount of sustain. As you start tuning one head away from that, some of the cycles of the head will add energy to each other (in-phase), some cycles of the head will absorb energy (out-of-phase), and some cycles of the head will "miss" and neither add or remove energy from the other head. This will reduce sustain and change the pitch and may effect the decay (i.e. impart a pitch bend). As you keep tuning away you're sustain will be reduced more and more as more and more cycles are out-of-phase. Eventually you'll reach a point where the number of out-of-phase cycles peaks. Thus the sustain will hit it's minimum point. Tuning further will start reducing the number of out-of-phase cycles and increasing the number of in-phase cycles and sustain will again begin increasing. Eventually you'll hit a harmonic where the sustain again peaks. Although this peak in sustain will still have less sustain than when both heads were tuned exactly the same because some of the cycles of the head still "miss" and neither add nor remove energy from the other head.

  9. #9

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    Default Re: Never really learned this...

    With the reso head loose, you'll get more of a bending "WOOMM" kinda sound. A tight reso will have a more controlled sound. The only thing I noticed about a tight versus loose batter head is a slappier, plastic-ier sound. A loose batter will be sound plastic-ier and slappier, whereas a tight batter is more controlled.
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  10. #10

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    Default Re: Never really learned this...

    Quote Originally Posted by Doc_d View Post
    I learned a bit about the concept of resonance in electronics. I actually wasn't very good at electronics so this explanation probably isn't perfect but it'll help you get the basic idea.
    Speaking as an engineer, that was a pretty good real life example... especially from someone that's not very good at electronics

  11. #11

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    Default Re: Never really learned this...

    Quote Originally Posted by Doc_d View Post
    I learned a bit about the concept of resonance in electronics. I actually wasn't very good at electronics so this explanation probably isn't perfect but it'll help you get the basic idea.

    Think of a child on a swing with a parent behind them pushing them. If the parent pushes at just the right time on each swing, the child gains more and more energy and swings higher and higher. The child is resonating at the parent's push frequency. They are at the same frequency and in-phase. In-phase means the parent's push is timed just right.

    Now let's assume the parent pushes at exactly the right time but on every other swing of the child. The child still gains energy and swings higher, but not as high as the above example. The child is resonating at a harmonic of the parent's frequency. They are still in-phase (i.e. the pushes that do contact the child are timed just right. The other pushes completely miss the child and neither add energy nor remove energy from the child).

    Now let's saw the parent pushes at the same frequency but at exactly the wrong time. The parent's energy would directly oppose the child's energy and the child would quickly be brought to a stop. They child and parent are at the same frequency but they are directly out-of-phase.

    Let's say the parent pushed at a completely different frequency than the child swings at. Some pushes might land at the perfect time and add energy to the child. Some pushes will end up pushing against the child and slowing the child down. Some swings will miss the child complety. This would create a pattern of in-phase pushes, out-of-phase pushes and misses that would eventually repeat over and over again.

    When you tune both heads to the same frequency the greatest amount of energy is bounced back and forth. This results in the greatest amount of sustain. As you start tuning one head away from that, some of the cycles of the head will add energy to each other (in-phase), some cycles of the head will absorb energy (out-of-phase), and some cycles of the head will "miss" and neither add or remove energy from the other head. This will reduce sustain and change the pitch and may effect the decay (i.e. impart a pitch bend). As you keep tuning away you're sustain will be reduced more and more as more and more cycles are out-of-phase. Eventually you'll reach a point where the number of out-of-phase cycles peaks. Thus the sustain will hit it's minimum point. Tuning further will start reducing the number of out-of-phase cycles and increasing the number of in-phase cycles and sustain will again begin increasing. Eventually you'll hit a harmonic where the sustain again peaks. Although this peak in sustain will still have less sustain than when both heads were tuned exactly the same because some of the cycles of the head still "miss" and neither add nor remove energy from the other head.
    I feel smarter already, but it does create some additional questions...

    How the difference in weight between the two heads comes into play?

    When tuning to the same pitch, does the thinner reso head reach that pitch at a different tympanic pressure than the thicker batter head (important for Drum Dial users)?

    Is the kid on the swing a boy or a girl in this example?

    In places like Austrailia and South America, do they have to put their reso heads on the top of the drums since everything is upsidedown there?

    Inquiring minds, you know...
    Last edited by xsabers; 10-06-2010 at 02:39 PM.

  12. #12

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    Default Re: Never really learned this...

    Quote Originally Posted by kickinit View Post
    Speaking as an engineer, that was a pretty good real life example... especially from someone that's not very good at electronics
    Thanks! I'm pretty good at grasping concepts but I'm pretty much a complete moron when it comes to higher level math Trig and differential equations

    Quote Originally Posted by xsabers View Post
    I feel smarter already, but it does create some additional questions...

    How the difference in weight between the two heads comes into play?

    When tuning to the same pitch, does the thinner reso head reach that pitch at a different tympanic pressure than the thicker batter head (important for Drum Dial users)?
    I'm no expert on drum tuning, I was just trying to share some basic concepts about how an object resonates. My gut feeling is that a heavier head would reach the same pitch at a different tension that a lighter head. I suspect heads of a different weight probably have different attack and decay characteristics. Heavier things take more energy to put into motion and will stay in motion longer. So a drum with matched heads compared to a drum with mismatched heads all tuned to the same frequency should still sound different.

    Is the kid on the swing a boy or a girl in this example?
    I'm going to say a boy since I haven't yet figured out how women work.

    In places like Austrailia and South America, do they have to put their reso heads on the top of the drums since everything is upsidedown there?

    Inquiring minds, you know...
    Most of the Aussie's I've met probably put both heads on the same side of the drum after one too many Foster's.

  13. #13

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    Default Re: Never really learned this...

    Quote Originally Posted by kickinit View Post
    speaking as an engineer, that was a pretty good real life example... Especially from someone that's not very good at electronics
    +1

    Quote Originally Posted by xsabers View Post
    I feel smarter already, but it does create some additional questions...

    How the difference in weight between the two heads comes into play?

    When tuning to the same pitch, does the thinner reso head reach that pitch at a different tympanic pressure than the thicker batter head (important for Drum Dial users)?

    Is the kid on the swing a boy or a girl in this example?

    In places like Austrailia and South America, do they have to put their reso heads on the top of the drums since everything is upsidedown there?

    Inquiring minds, you know...
    Check out the link rabidpenguin posted. It explains fairly well how the different head combinations effect the sound. However, it doesn't have any info regarding right handed drummers needing to play on left handed kits in places like Austrailia and South America.
    Last edited by DrummerD; 10-06-2010 at 09:42 PM.

  14. #14

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    Default Re: Never really learned this...

    Quote Originally Posted by xsabers View Post
    In places like Austrailia and South America, do they have to put their reso heads on the top of the drums since everything is upsidedown there?
    Haha, nah our drums are upside down so we still put the reso heads on the bottom... or rather, top. We just hit them from the bottom.
    - Zack

  15. #15

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    Default Re: Never really learned this...

    Quote Originally Posted by rabidpenguin45 View Post
    http://home.earthlink.net/~prof.sound/index.html

    Not perfect, but definitely a great tool to use/gain wisdom from.
    This was really helpful, thanks!

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