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Thread: DW Performance, win or fail?

  1. #351

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    Not to mention the mercury!

  2. #352

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    Quote Originally Posted by noreastbob View Post
    what's wrong with chinese strawberries?
    Quote Originally Posted by sundog View Post
    they have lead in them.
    lol!
    Kevin
    DW Performance series - Gun Metal Metallic Lacquer
    24/12/16 6.5x14
    Sabian AA/AAX hi-hats & crashes
    Sabian HHX Evolution ride

    Drummers can be very tempomental.....

  3. #353

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    I have never worried too much about where things are made since it doesn't matter in the end.. i care about the sound. And have liked the sound of the design better from the few kits i have tried. but that could even come down to tuning, so no biggy

  4. #354

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    Heads and tuning. Where you hit them and even the sticks.

  5. #355

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    Why do I feel like DW gets a lot of people hatting on them because they can't afford the kit. I own a DW and yes it was a big purchase but it was worth it. I think the company as a whole is just looking out for their future and they are doing a great job remember their big purchase of gretsch and gibraltar LP and some other companies. Their Business department is killer.
    Sabian!!!

  6. #356

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    Quote Originally Posted by HolyChina View Post
    Why do I feel like DW gets a lot of people hatting on them because they can't afford the kit. I own a DW and yes it was a big purchase but it was worth it. I think the company as a whole is just looking out for their future and they are doing a great job remember their big purchase of gretsch and gibraltar LP and some other companies. Their Business department is killer.
    True. In actuality, though, DW's top end gear is not priced above the top end gear of many "custom" manufacturers. Just peruse the price list for the Yamaha PHX lines.

    GeeDeeEmm

  7. #357

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    Personally, Ive had dealings with DW concerning their
    Yamaha Oak Custom 22x17 with Brass Kick Port, Brass Hoop Claws,10-12-14 racks, 16 Floor and all toms have Brass Hoops and a Tama Starclassic Bubinga Elite 14x6.5 snare in Quilted Mocha Burst and Black Nickel hardware. All hi-end Zildjian Cymbals - K Dark Thin crashes & splashes, a Zildjian A crash & a Meinl 16" crash, Avedis Zildjian 1964 ride, K Custom hats plus New Beat hats on Closed X-Hat.


    If a Man offends thee - - give each of his children a Drum~~~!!!

  8. #358

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    Bob hit it right on the head (no pun intended)

    I don't care what the drums are made of or who made them, in the end it all comes down to heads and tuning.

    DW sits way up there, but, so do my Ludwigs which were a top of the line set when I bought them in the early '70's and there is no reason they aren't top of the line now.

    If you have a set of DW but aren't a good tuner (I discount the heads because they are personal choice and still have to be tuned) the drums aren't going to sound good, but you have the ego trip of having a set of DW's that cost X, but sound like a set of Ludwig Rockers that are made of driftwood and held together by Elmer's glue that cost $300.

    In the end, DW's are going to sound like a set of drums. They don't have that unique a sound that they are going to stand out like a Lambo in a line of Kias.

  9. #359

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    If it was all heads and tuning then toy drums would sound world class in the right hands. I believe that construction and material make a big difference. Park a DW (or other high end set) in a line of dDrum Journeyman sets and it will most surely stick out like a sore thumb.

    Collectors Black Ice Finishply
    10x8,12x9,15x12,16x14,20x18,24x16
    14X6 Collectors 10 and 6 snare Natural Satin
    14x8 Collectors Black Nickel over Brass

  10. #360

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    I agree SunDog. My post #354 was more or less re-enforcing or embellishing Icetech's previous post regarding that the drum sets he's comparing his Designs to may not have been dialed in.
    As stated in other threads here and elsewhere I believe a drum's sound is directly related to manufacturing accuracy and craftsmanship, heads/tuning, shell material, and playing technique...roughly in that order. Could switch the last two criteria.
    I somewhat disagree with Rick though. As important as heads and tuning are, the advancements in manufacturing and design between the 60s / 70s and now are substantial.
    My first kit was Ludwig in the mid-late 60's and they were great for their time. Still good and I'd be fine playing them now. But they were nowhere near as resonant and easily tunable as the Collectors I play now.
    Once again the sound you're looking for is relevant.
    Sorry Rick, you were agreeing with my post and I turned around and kinda belittled it.

  11. #361

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    From the mid '70's to around the mid '80's, there was a band called Rollover that played mainly from the midwest to the west coast.

    They were a really good band that was busy and then somewhere around the mid '80's they stopped for whatever reason.

    Their drummer had 1 of the best sounding sets I've ever heard, and it wasn't just me but a lot of drummers I met back then would always say how good his drums sounded regardless of venue. The drums were, if I remember right, were 20" BD, 12"x 8 or 9 up tom, and a 14" and 16" FT's.

    I heard more than a few guys with top of the line sets say that they wished their drums sounded like his.

    The guy's drums were US Mercury.

    I stand by what I said.

  12. #362

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    Objective / subjective.
    My stance is that you may love a thuddy damped sounding drum set with thick damped heads etc. And that is what you call "good" sounding. Not saying you do but as an example.
    Someone else may prefer a pure discreet tone with harmonic overtones that can be tuned for 4 seconds of sustain if they so choose.
    It has been my experience that the less expensive kits of lower quality materials are much less likely to successfully achieve the latter while the higher end kits, while all differing somewhat, are consistently easier to make sound lively and musical....or dead and thuddy if you like. More versatile.
    All generalizations. There are inevitable exceptions, but consistent reliable quality, in most all things, incurs some expense.
    I also stand by my belief that, although the OP states he prefers his Designs over Performance, they are not objectively of better quality.

  13. #363

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    Does all this mean that everybody is going to run out and buy DW's now?

  14. #364

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    Doubt it. I suggest they run out and buy whatever pleases them that they can afford.

  15. #365

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    Simple solutions for a complex world

  16. #366

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    Quote Originally Posted by rickthedrummer View Post
    Simple solutions for a complex world
    You and I generally agree, we just use different language. So to put it in terms you'll appreciate, I have the best heads and the best tuned drums of any drummer I've ever worked with. I must because it's not the drums themselves right....... My drums go on stage several times a month, with other bands, in front of hundreds to thousands of people. Audience, sound men, and other drummers always agree that my drums sound great. Scene stealing, show stopping, scenery chewing, I'm hamming it up here, great. So I guess I can live by your rules and accept that its me. I simply tune better than others and i use the best heads in the world. I stand by what I've said
    Last edited by SunDog; 12-05-2015 at 10:47 AM.

    Collectors Black Ice Finishply
    10x8,12x9,15x12,16x14,20x18,24x16
    14X6 Collectors 10 and 6 snare Natural Satin
    14x8 Collectors Black Nickel over Brass

  17. #367

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    So what are these best heads that make your drums sound the best in the world? Oh, I getcha.
    Last edited by noreastbob; 12-05-2015 at 12:37 PM.

  18. #368

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    Quote Originally Posted by SunDog View Post
    You and I generally agree, we just use different language. So to put it in terms you'll appreciate, I have the best heads and the best tuned drums of any drummer I've ever worked with. I must because it's not the drums themselves right....... My drums go on stage several times a month, with other bands, in front of hundreds to thousands of people. Audience, sound men, and other drummers always agree that my drums sound great. Scene stealing, show stopping, scenery chewing, I'm hamming it up here, great. So I guess I can live by your rules and accept that its me. I simply tune better than others and i use the best heads in the world. I stand by what I've said


    The sarcasm is not what I expected from you.

    C'est la vie.

  19. #369

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    Quote Originally Posted by rickthedrummer View Post
    The sarcasm is not what I expected from you.

    C'est la vie.
    Sorry rick. The sarcasm was a bit over the top. We all have our own specific taste. I personally think that Keller makes the best shells. All of the best sounding ply drums I've ever heard were Keller and every maple drum I own is a Keller as well (yes even my five DW shells). Super thin and sharp inside 45 edges just do it for me. We all use the same heads, Remo, Evans, Aquarian. Two ply, one ply, coated or clear and none of that makes a set stand out in my eyes. We all don't play DW Collectors or Craviotto or Yamaha Absolute etc. So yeah, I think the drums make more of a difference than you are willing to admit.

    Collectors Black Ice Finishply
    10x8,12x9,15x12,16x14,20x18,24x16
    14X6 Collectors 10 and 6 snare Natural Satin
    14x8 Collectors Black Nickel over Brass

  20. #370

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    I certainly agree you can make a high end kit sound bad with bad tuning and/or trashed or poor heads.
    BUT
    There's only so much you can do with tuning and heads for a $300 set of Ludwig Rockers made of driftwood and held together with Elmer's Glue.
    All instruments have to be in tune to sound good. It's a given barely worthy of mention.
    As an extreme example: Do you really think you can take the strings off a Stradivarius and put them on a Conn student model violin, tune it up and have it sound as good as the Strad?

  21. #371

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    Quote Originally Posted by SunDog View Post
    Sorry rick. The sarcasm was a bit over the top. We all have our own specific taste. I personally think that Keller makes the best shells. All of the best sounding ply drums I've ever heard were Keller and every maple drum I own is a Keller as well (yes even my five DW shells). Super thin and sharp inside 45 edges just do it for me. We all use the same heads, Remo, Evans, Aquarian. Two ply, one ply, coated or clear and none of that makes a set stand out in my eyes. We all don't play DW Collectors or Craviotto or Yamaha Absolute etc. So yeah, I think the drums make more of a difference than you are willing to admit.
    Quote Originally Posted by noreastbob View Post
    I certainly agree you can make a high end kit sound bad with bad tuning and/or trashed or poor heads.
    BUT
    There's only so much you can do with tuning and heads for a $300 set of Ludwig Rockers made of driftwood and held together with Elmer's Glue.
    All instruments have to be in tune to sound good. It's a given barely worthy of mention.
    As an extreme example: Do you really think you can take the strings off a Stradivarius and put them on a Conn student model violin, tune it up and have it sound as good as the Strad?


    Simply put, the drums may make more of a difference than I think they do, but not as much of a difference as you think they do.

    We just have to agree to disagree.

  22. #372

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    It's all important.
    A good musician is in control of their instrument and striving to get the most and best performance and sound from what, where, and with whom they are playing.
    The fewer barriers and negative factors in the way the better.
    By far the most important contributor is the player.
    Over & out

  23. #373

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    I think it's about the particular sound that a drummer is going for. What's pleasing to one may be less so to another. Example...personally I've never cared that much for the sound of Steve Gadds drums. It's no indictment on Yamaha drums because I know they make some great stuff. I know it's not the player. Gadd has awesome chops and who am I to question his ear? He knows what sound pleases him.
    OTH I listen to Jack Dejohnette with Keith Jarret Trio, circa 90's. Every time he hits the toms shivers go up and down my spine! I know nothing about Sonor drums so no bias. It's all equal parts, quality drums, and the ear of the the drummer.

    all the best...

  24. #374

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    I agree that it is really about the sound one is trying to get. I do also think that we underestimate the impact that tuning and heads have on sound. Today, much more than in the past, I don't think that there is much difference in quality between drum manufacturers or between mid level and high end drums. All that being said..............it's about who's sitting on the throne IMHO.

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