Results 1 to 12 of 12

Thread: How to count 5/2

  1. #1

    User Info Menu

    Default How to count 5/2

    I have been looking into claves recently and I came across a 5/2 clave. I do not understand how to count it, can someone give me a little help?

    Kit: 65 Slingerland Modern Solo Outfit

  2. #2

    User Info Menu

    Default Re: How to count 5/2

    5/2 is essentially 10/4, you could count it as such (double tempo of course).

    The only two constants I have are DW and Zildjian.

  3. #3

    User Info Menu

    Default Re: How to count 5/2

    Thanks, that was very helpful. I'm still getting used to how to think about time signatures outside of x/4. I think I just panicked when I saw the x/2 instead looking it as a fraction and it just completely screwed me up. Just to verify that I have it:

    (Notes that are played are in bold)
    1 & 2 & 3 & 4 & 5 & 1 & 2 & 3 & 4 & 5 &
    Kit: 65 Slingerland Modern Solo Outfit

  4. #4

    User Info Menu

    Default Re: How to count 5/2

    Quote Originally Posted by fixthedoor View Post
    Thanks, that was very helpful. I'm still getting used to how to think about time signatures outside of x/4. I think I just panicked when I saw the x/2 instead looking it as a fraction and it just completely screwed me up. Just to verify that I have it:

    (Notes that are played are in bold)
    1 & 2 & 3 & 4 & 5 & 1 & 2 & 3 & 4 & 5 &
    Sounds about right, that's how I'd count it, looking at the notation. By the way, I think a lot of people do the "panic thing" when looking at a meter and say "it's odd"...what I always say to myself is that it's an odd-numbered meter, therefore not "closing" myself off from trying it out and getting as familiar with a 5/4 or a 7/4 just as I am comfortable with a 4/4. Why not? Greeks, Arabs, Armenians, Serbs, Indians and all sorts of other cultures dance in different counts (and have been doing so for hundreds of years and more), why should the rest of us be any different? In fact, learning polyrhythms such as 5 against 4 (1e+a, 2e+a, 3e+a, 4e+a, 5e+a) will also in an indirect way teach you how one limb sort of does clave against another one.
    "...it's the Paradigm Of The Cosmos!" Stewart Copeland on Youtube

    668: The Number Of The Guy Next Door To The Beast.

    "A random act of kindness; it keeps my heart in shape!" - Late8

  5. #5

    User Info Menu

    Default Re: How to count 5/2

    Odd numbered meter is good. I have tried to shy away from saying things like, it's odd, but it's difficult. Exactly as you say, odd used as an adjective is very subjective.

    Thanks for the 5/4 and 7/4 comfort suggestion. Since starting down this path I think jumped away from them too quickly instead of exploring them more thoroughly.
    Kit: 65 Slingerland Modern Solo Outfit

  6. #6

    User Info Menu

    Default Re: How to count 5/2

    If counting 5/2 as 10/4 helps you, cool, but I would also practice counting it as 5/2.

    5/2 or any half note signature is great practice for getting out of the habit or method of counting the e, an's and a's since the 16th notes get dropped from the "e" and "a" count in an x/2 time signature. The same as a 32nd note has no count in in a X/4 time signature. The X/2 time signatures allow for counting with common notations without the busyness of 32nd notes which become necessary in a 10/4 time signature.

    The typical goal of counting is to develop through recognization from practice playing the e's, an's and a's without counting them. Eventually you just want to count the counts, 1's, 2's, 3's, 4's, etc.

    In an X/4 time signature:
    1, 2. 3, etc. = 1/4 notes
    e = 16th note
    an = 8th note
    a = 16 note
    nothing for a 32nd note

    In a X\2 time signature:
    1, 2, 3, etc. = 1/2 notes
    e = 1/8 note
    an = 1/4 note
    a = 1/8 note
    Nothing for a 16th note

    Hope I'm making sense about this for you since this striictly refers to counting and not notation which can be funky especially when using the notation of syncopated rhythms.
    Last edited by Riverr1; 12-14-2010 at 01:10 PM.

  7. #7

    User Info Menu

    Default Re: How to count 5/2

    Quote Originally Posted by fixthedoor View Post
    Odd numbered meter is good. I have tried to shy away from saying things like, it's odd, but it's difficult. Exactly as you say, odd used as an adjective is very subjective.

    Thanks for the 5/4 and 7/4 comfort suggestion. Since starting down this path I think jumped away from them too quickly instead of exploring them more thoroughly.
    Good thought here since odd counts being odd generally only refer to western music. Outside of western music even numbered time signatures can be the oddball.

  8. #8

    User Info Menu

    Default Re: How to count 5/2

    Thanks Riverr1 for a good explanation. I understand what you are saying...it took me a few minutes to process it, but I have it now. Once I play it, I should have a firmer grasp on the concept.
    Kit: 65 Slingerland Modern Solo Outfit

  9. #9

    User Info Menu

    Default Re: How to count 5/2

    Glad you got it and it was a great and involved question. When writing about notation and counting with percussion things can get convoluted. It's so much easier to say some things.

    For example, with your 5/2 clave example consider the last 2 note notations. A 1/4 note and a 1/4 rest. The two 1/4 counts equal a 1/2 note or one full count in 5/2. The rest could have just as well been dropped and the 1/4 note replaced with a 1/2 note. What difference would it make? Except for the tuned instruments, percussion or otherwise, sustain is not an issue. Translate the above now in terms of 10/4. Impossible? Of course not, but in context 5/2isn't written as 10/4 for a reason and there is more involved then translating a time signature with an appropriate compensation in tempo. Being able to translate is a good skill to have, but be wary of putting the cart before the horse. This is all about the habits and skills you develop.

    In one sense this may seem to all be mumbo jumbo, but in another it's not. A clave is a rhythm based on equal, but opposing halves. Equal and opposing halves of 5/2 compared to 10/4, 5 being odd and 10 being even, are completely different melody structures. This is fundamental and important when learning the notation and counting of claves. Since you asked this question this is an consideration to your question and it's answer.

    I'll shut up now.

  10. #10

    User Info Menu

    Default Re: How to count 5/2

    Quote Originally Posted by Riverr1 View Post
    Glad you got it and it was a great and involved question. When writing about notation and counting with percussion things can get convoluted. It's so much easier to say some things.

    For example, with your 5/2 clave example consider the last 2 note notations. A 1/4 note and a 1/4 rest. The two 1/4 counts equal a 1/2 note or one full count in 5/2. The rest could have just as well been dropped and the 1/4 note replaced with a 1/2 note. What difference would it make? Except for the tuned instruments, percussion or otherwise, sustain is not an issue. Translate the above now in terms of 10/4. Impossible? Of course not, but in context 5/2isn't written as 10/4 for a reason and there is more involved then translating a time signature with an appropriate compensation in tempo. Being able to translate is a good skill to have, but be wary of putting the cart before the horse. This is all about the habits and skills you develop.

    In one sense this may seem to all be mumbo jumbo, but in another it's not. A clave is a rhythm based on equal, but opposing halves. Equal and opposing halves of 5/2 compared to 10/4, 5 being odd and 10 being even, are completely different melody structures. This is fundamental and important when learning the notation and counting of claves. Since you asked this question this is an consideration to your question and it's answer.

    I'll shut up now.
    Excellent point, River. Thanks for sharing this ...

  11. #11

    User Info Menu

    Default Re: How to count 5/2

    No worries about all the info it's appreciated. Regarding the half note, it would be written with an open note head and a stem correct?

    I'm just barely grasping what you are talking about, new terms and such. The differences you are talking about would come from 5/2 being made up of additive parts, 3/2 + 2/2, and 10/4 being made up of divisive parts, 5/4 + 5/4. This would then play a role as to where the emphasis and accents would be (or dictate?). I'm sure backbeats would be different for each as well (although how, I'm not sure).

    The 5/2 however you probably wouldn't want to breakdown into smaller parts because it's already small.

    Obviously I'm way in over my head, but am I taking away good info from what you wrote?
    Kit: 65 Slingerland Modern Solo Outfit

  12. #12

    User Info Menu

    Default Re: How to count 5/2

    Quote Originally Posted by fixthedoor View Post
    Thanks, that was very helpful. I'm still getting used to how to think about time signatures outside of x/4. I think I just panicked when I saw the x/2 instead looking it as a fraction and it just completely screwed me up. Just to verify that I have it:

    (Notes that are played are in bold)
    1 & 2 & 3 & 4 & 5 & 1 & 2 & 3 & 4 & 5 &
    You are right........5 beats per measure instead of 4, thats all.
    slot # 1

    In support of l e i g h ' s campaign..............DC Record for Most Users Online
    BE COUNTED!
    http://www.drumchat.com/showthread.php/dc-record-most-users-12079p2.html




    CHARTER MEMBER OF PHROGGE'S AQUARIAN ARMY

    The Zildjian League
    Zildjian Vintage A Team


    RIP Frank.............thanks for being part of my journey

Tags for this Thread

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •