Looking for a Particular Cymbal Sound (take a listen)

[Tadman]

Hi DCrs,

I have been looking for a particular cymbal sound, dark wash with sizzle. Closest I have found is the cymbal used periodically in the original recording of Eric Clapton's "Wonderful Tonight" See vid below---it is the cymbal hit to intro the song, then repeated periodically throughout.

(Apologies for the sugary sweet pictures in the video, this is the first I came upon with the studio version of the song. Also, understood that there may be certain studio tweaking of the original cymbal sound, but just looking for what cymbal underlies the sound).

If anyone can give a good guess, or even knows what cymbal was actually used in the recording, thanks in advance!

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fC04ZZploBE"]YouTube - Eric Clapton- Wonderful tonight (with lyrics)[/ame]

Listen for cymbal at: 0:02, 2:05, 2:08, and 3:33/34

[davewilson]

Hi DCrs,

I have been looking for a particular cymbal sound, dark wash with sizzle. Closest I have found is the cymbal used periodically in the original recording of Eric Clapton's "Wonderful Tonight" See vid below---it is the cymbal hit to intro the song, then repeated periodically throughout.

(Apologies for the sugary sweet pictures in the video, this is the first I came upon with the studio version of the song. Also, understood that there may be certain studio tweaking of the original cymbal sound, but just looking for what cymbal underlies the sound).

If anyone can give a good guess, or even knows what cymbal was actually used in the recording, thanks in advance!

YouTube - Eric Clapton- Wonderful tonight (with lyrics)

The Drummer for 1977's "Slowhand" album was Jamie Oldaker. He has a book coming out called "The best seat in the house". Jamie has played with Bob Seger, Eric Clapton, and Peter Frampton ...just to name a few. He's currently an endorsed Sabian artist and plays a mix of AA, HH, and HHX. I have no idea what he was using in 1977 but the choices were a lot fewer and further between back then. His website:
http://www.jamieoldaker.com/

I'm sure he'd be happy to discuss this with you.

[Yoda]

The only dark sizzly sound I could hear sounded like a swish cymbal. I assume since this was recorded in 1977 that it was a Zildjian swish. They still make em, but I think they only make them in the A custom line. Search ebay a bit and find a vintage one they pop up all the time.

[Tadman]

The Drummer for 1977's "Slowhand" album was Jamie Oldaker. He has a book coming out called "The best seat in the house". Jamie has played with Bob Seger, Eric Clapton, and Peter Frampton ...just to name a few. He's currently an endorsed Sabian artist and plays a mix of AA, HH, and HHX. I have no idea what he was using in 1977 but the choices were a lot fewer and further between back then. His website:
http://www.jamieoldaker.com/

I'm sure he'd be happy to discuss this with you.

Thanks so much!

[Tadman]

The only dark sizzly sound I could hear sounded like a swish cymbal. I assume since this was recorded in 1977 that it was a Zildjian swish. They still make em, but I think they only make them in the A custom line. Search ebay a bit and find a vintage one they pop up all the time.

Thanks! Much appreciated. Will report results to all.

[Tadman]

The Drummer for 1977's "Slowhand" album was Jamie Oldaker. He has a book coming out called "The best seat in the house". Jamie has played with Bob Seger, Eric Clapton, and Peter Frampton ...just to name a few. He's currently an endorsed Sabian artist and plays a mix of AA, HH, and HHX. I have no idea what he was using in 1977 but the choices were a lot fewer and further between back then. His website:
http://www.jamieoldaker.com/

I'm sure he'd be happy to discuss this with you.

Tried Jamie at the address in his website (jamo@jamieoldaker.com); unfortunately the server bounced it back indicating no such address. (double checked address.)

[davewilson]

That sucks... as far as I know that was the only contact. I do have a pic from that era and he was playing Zildjian at that time. I think the china-type "Swish" or "pang" cymbal is the best guess so far and seems to be confirmed by this photo... you'll note the china-looking cymbals with the standard bells. I know Zildjian introduced a couple versions of these recently in the A Custom Rezo line as "Pang" cymbals.

[gonefishin]

I liistened to the new A series and the A Custom Rezo and do not like either one. Im surprised too because I cant say enough about the A Custom crash cymbals.

I have one from the 70's and it sounds so much better than the new ones. A lot softer / warmer type wash. Mine has 8 rivets and sounds to be thinner than what is in current production. Im not impressed with that Pang type sound that they have now.

Just my thoughts.

[tah821]

How bout the 22" A Series Swish Knocker?

[Tadman]

Yes, I was thinking of auditioning a swish knocker. If that does not work, maybe have to check vintage market, as suggested earlier!

[gonefishin]

Yes, I was thinking of auditioning a swish knocker. If that does not work, maybe have to check vintage market, as suggested earlier!

Im thinking vintage is the sound you want. The new ones are just too thick and have that trashy type pang to them that I dont care for.

If you plan on getting a new one I suggest try it before you buy it. If you end up going for vintage then make sure the one you get has 6 or 8 rivets, they were the best ones.

[jajo]

That could have been a small fast crash with some of those beads strung on it.

[davewilson]

Yes, I was thinking of auditioning a swish knocker. If that does not work, maybe have to check vintage market, as suggested earlier!

I heard the Bosphorus Stanton Moore "Pang thang" on the Groove Alchemy DVD and it sounded really sweet.... not as harsh as it sounds on the mycymbal vids. Might be one to check out also.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZQKQuzsY1SY"]YouTube - Stanton Moore Trio: Pot Licker[/ame]

[dropdtune]

I listened closely, and that cymbal you speak of definitely has rivets (which seem to be not so much in vogue anymore). You can also go through many different sounding cymbals using the mycymbal... website to focus in one what sounds close to it....with headphones. I've spend many hours on that website listening to stuff!

[Tadman]

Thanks, all! Auditioning each day. Will report results...though it may take some time!

[leeman_36]

sounds to me kinda like a china with a sizzle on it

[PHROGGE]

I thot dat jaimie had rivets customizing
his china cymbal @ dat time....
But a zildjian swiss knocker is about as
close as you can get to dat sound i believe...

Jaime does not respond frequently on his website
i have asked guidance on the correct playing
of the groove for "wonderful tonite" and had to
refer back to an old article i read in modren drummer
i cant remember which issue....try there....

Sorry my "crs disease" strikes again...

[MDK]

definetly sounds like a China with rivets or better yet a sizzle chain on it.

[Riverr1]

The Drummer for 1977's "Slowhand" album was Jamie Oldaker. He has a book coming out called "The best seat in the house". Jamie has played with Bob Seger, Eric Clapton, and Peter Frampton ...just to name a few. He's currently an endorsed Sabian artist and plays a mix of AA, HH, and HHX. I have no idea what he was using in 1977 but the choices were a lot fewer and further between back then. His website:
http://www.jamieoldaker.com/

I'm sure he'd be happy to discuss this with you.

Haven't talked to Charlie in years and not the best way to remember or be reminded of that. Last time I saw him he was still playing and rockin' on piano. His voice was as great as ever. Here he was playing for Seger and he's a Plant clone. Que Sera.

Back when this was recorded cymbal designations were in their infancy. There wasn't much more then thin, med. and heavy. Paiste is really the company that explored the different designations and formulas. More then likely this cymbal is a standard vintage Zil. Also back then the K's were more prevelant in Europe because they came from Istanbul, while the A's were made here. There's a world of difference between the vintage A's and K's. Another thing to remember is that rivets were common on the vintage Zil pangs and China cymbals. You might just want to try putting rivets on a China. You can also contact custom cymbal makers like Saluda who will make a cymbal for you to match a particular sound you are after. Generally doesn't cost you any more then the cymbal you are trying to mimic or clone.

Gotta agree with you though, it's a sweet sound that really fits the song.

[Tadman]

Thanks guys! All excellent inputs. Will keep you all up on how i do with "seeking the sound"!

[Larrysperf]

Sounds like a wuhan with rivits or sizzler

[Tadman]

Update:

--Still looking into vintage market. Jamie's original cymbals look to be 22-24 inch, likely Zildjian of the 70s era (fewer rivets). Personal "interviews" of modern cymbals reveal they are indeed much harsher. Looking for that older and likely thinner "wash".

--Also in communication with Saluda on a possible project to recreate, closely as possible, in new cymbal. They are working on examining stats and sound files. (Thanks for idea Riverr1!).

Hopefully, more news soon.

[Tadman]

Speaking with Saluda. They are studying the song/recording and are working up something to match. More soon.

(it's this or keep monitoring for the perfect vintage find, may need to try both, but let's see!)

[Tadman]

Saluda is making a:

22" Diamond China (low pitched) 6 rivets.

Will post when it is done. Figure this is a very good company, reasonable, and possibly excellent alternative to a costly vintage find---also matching (diamond series) pretty well with the Paiste signatures and other cymbals in my current setup.

[Yoda]

They are great people to work with. The Diamond will get you that vintage Zildjian sound. Im waiting for those pics!