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Thread: Kick drum leg locking up

  1. #1

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    Default Kick drum leg locking up

    Hi I've trying for ages to get my kick drum speed up to 80 -90 bpm playing 16 th's . I want to be able to play 16th's at this speed constantly. The problem I get is that my knee locks up and stops my leg moving around 77bpm. I've tried doing squats and using weights. When my leg locks it can take several hours to unlock. My hands have no problems anything I practice I can see results in a matter of weeks, whereas the leg progress is taking years.
    Has anyone got advice, any suggestions would be appreciated.

  2. #2

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    I have same problem except I am still only at 67bpm (for about 2 months now) but I am doing it heel down also. I cannot for the life of me decide on a way to play heel up.. heel toe, slide, toe heel etc..

    I am really starting to re-think the whole double pedal thing and get one rather than wait years for this to come about. I started late (40yrs old) so I don't have alot of time or patience to develop this : )

    I will be watching this for tips as well.. good question

  3. #3

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    Hi I've found that if you play near the start of the pedal you have less metal to move, also I'm playing heel down as i find the heel up uses muscles you don't need. Saying that I'm playing from my thigh, like in a stomping motion.

  4. #4

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    There are no secrets, it just takes time and practice.

  5. #5

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    Position could be a factor to your knee problems. Are you seated at the right height because this is very important to which technique you use ( heel up or down). the pedal would also contribute to your problems for speed. What do you use for a pedal? I have a single Pearl Power Eliminator ( P2000C) chain drive with interchangeable cams and it works well for me. I am not trying to attend the speed that you are but am happy with the overall speed that I have accomplished.

  6. #6

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    Default Re: Kick drum leg locking up

    Quote Originally Posted by Pearl MCX Man View Post
    Position could be a factor to your knee problems. Are you seated at the right height because this is very important to which technique you use ( heel up or down). the pedal would also contribute to your problems for speed. What do you use for a pedal? I have a single Pearl Power Eliminator ( P2000C) chain drive with interchangeable cams and it works well for me. I am not trying to attend the speed that you are but am happy with the overall speed that I have accomplished.
    Hi I've got a Trick Dominator, you can change virtualy everything on it
    I've tried different angles when I'm sitting, legs square to seat or legs slightly raised both methods result in legs locking.
    I've thought about getting muscle relaxants maybe this might help
    Last edited by drummer; 02-13-2011 at 03:02 PM. Reason: Commercial Link (see forum rules)

  7. #7

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    Thanks Northern Redneck for the encouragement, what methods did you use?

  8. #8

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    Hi phil555, I have the same issues with my left leg "locking" up. Fellow DrumChat member xweasel plays fast double kick and he suggested that I watch Derek Roddy's video on double kick drills. I'm nowhere near the 180 BPM start point for this particular excercise but I can see where I'm slowly starting to improve my foot strokes to a point where they are powerful with clean solid strokes. Good luck!

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qPFEP_stPGI&feature=related"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qPFEP_stPGI&feature=related[/ame]

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kD3SLe6VjmE&feature=related"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kD3SLe6VjmE&feature=related[/ame]
    Last edited by late8; 02-14-2011 at 04:10 PM.

  9. #9

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    Hi Late 8 thanks for the Vids. I've Been watching these and they are great! i've used the 1o minute exercise for the hands for over a year and I gained fast results in a matter of weeks. Alas the legs didn't follow. I'm trying out a new method of playing now with heels up, where the front of the foot doesn't leave the pedal, almost like a jigging of the leg. I've seen Derek use this method.
    Phil

  10. #10

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    Default Re: Kick drum leg locking up

    Have you been exclusively playing heels up? One bit of advice I've gleaned from an old Billy Cobham video I used to have is to play both heels down and heels up. See, if you're sitting way too high for your height, you'd have no choice but to play heel up. But, if you sit a little lower (not way too low...you need your thighs to be at least as parallel to the floor as you can) and position your stool so that your ankles are just slightly in front of your knees, then you'll be able to not only still play heels up, but heels down as well. This is because your ankles, Achilles tendons, hamstrings etc will all be a lot more relaxed at this position, and if you work at it, you can also 'float' in between these two ankle positions.

    Also another thing when it comes to staying warmed up. Cycling and walking. I try and do this every week to exercise my ankles as much as I can. And I can tell you this from experience, when you do do in your Achilles tendon, it is one of the most painful things ever! I had to lay off playing with my right foot for a couple of months a number of years ago when I was in a particularly busy period of drumming, teaching and a lot of long distance driving. I ended up having cortisone injections right into the ankle....I can tell you that is definitely what you don't want! I had no choice but to cut out the work I was being offered and to just teach students so that I wasn't overworking my ankle. In fact, that was when I first got into doing more exercises with my left foot on a double pedal, with a closed hi-hat, then later I invested in a DW cable hi-hat for my right foot. What I discovered was that by using the heel-toe hi-hat technique for my right foot (something I took for granted with my left foot being usually on my normal hi-hat), I started to use muscles in the sole of my foot that I never did really use before, instead of just the ball of my toes. So, once the right foot was feeling better again, I got into the habit of practising heels up, heels down, then with two feet on hi hat pedals, the heel-toe technique. This, plus cycling, walking (not jogging...this gives me a kind of shin-splint pain) and also taking your sneakers off, stretching and wriggling your toes for a bit, all help to keep my ankles, legs and feet in a relatively good state of fitness. And if you feel that little bit of stiffness in the sole of your foot for some reason, keep a small squash ball, tennis ball or even a clavé stick (!) (yep, I've used this too) in your bag, so that when it happens, take your footwear off, put the ball on some flat ground or carpet and gently roll it with your foot, allowing it to go from toes to ankle and back again and relax.....this I got from a medical advice column straight from a drum magazine, and it definitely can help.

    And remember....go through stuff one beat, one rhythm at a time...we all have a lifetime to keep learning drumming, take it at your pace, not anyone else's! Cheers.
    "...it's the Paradigm Of The Cosmos!" Stewart Copeland on Youtube

    668: The Number Of The Guy Next Door To The Beast.

    "A random act of kindness; it keeps my heart in shape!" - Late8

  11. #11

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    Default Re: Kick drum leg locking up

    I'm not a pro but I switch between heel up and heel down. When I had my Pearl single pedal I could be comfortable with heel up for longer but when I switched to DW2002 double pedals heel down is more comfortable for me. But I do switch. I also had to play around and adjust the pedals to be comfortable.

    Pearl Session Series 5 pc Drum Set
    Paiste 14" 502 hi hats, 16" 502 crash, 18" 2002 medium crash, 20" 502 ride, 10" PST5 splash, 8" 2002 chime
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    "The most wasted of all days is one without laughter."

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  12. #12

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    Hi thanks for that invaluable knowledge drumbledore!

  13. #13

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    +1 What Drumbledore said.
    I play both methods and mixed at times depending on rhythms involved. Slower beats, heels down. Faster, the more I "run." On tip-toes. I'm using cheap SP's set to feel like Speedkings. No metal songs here. So far, so good.

  14. #14

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    Been reading this with interest and what concerns me is if your knee is "literally" locking up, then you are doing something that is hurting yourself. Unless you have some pre-existing condition concerning you knee, then nothing you do drumming should cause this unless you are doing something really wrong and not good for you.

    The second drum video I ever saw was Dave Weckl. There's a point in it where he talks about his hand speed. He said that one day here realized that he could this fast with his right hand, and this fast with his left hand so it would only make sense that if you put the 2 together that's how fast he should be. It makes sense, but it's not true. From there in the video he goes on to talk about I think the Moeller Technique to get the faster speed. It's been a long time since I've seen it. Doesn't matter, best way to understand this is to play a single stroke roll starting very slow and then building the speed to as fast as you can. At some point you let the sticks go to guide and control them rather then play them while the sticks do all the work. There are plenty of technique videos out on this, but the same is true with feet. There are a lot of different foot techniques for speed but they all have one thing in common. They introduce you to the techniques for foot speed. Heel\toe, sliding, rotating, god knows what all there is. I know no one is playing at great speeds by lifting there leg or ankle alone. They're used in conjuction with something else going on. What "that" is varies from drummer to drummer. Myself, I let go of all the tension in my legs and feet. I don't know how else to explain it, but while doing this, all I have is speed. I can't even accent when I'm playing the way.

    There are plenty of videos\DVD's available. Check into them. Don't hurt yourself because then all the work for nothing.

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z1hCgQdw1EQ"]YouTube - George Kollias-Double Bass Technique Metal (4th Dresdner Drumfestival)_2[/ame]

  15. #15

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    hi Riverr 1 , thanks for the reply I've looked at the George stuff before, the level 3 method of going above 180 I can do fine. Its the bpm around 150 - 170 is where I get the problem check this guy out [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EAnzlSMB2jo"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EAnzlSMB2jo[/ame]

  16. #16

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    Default Re: Kick drum leg locking up

    I couldn't have said it better, Riverr1. Everybody's body is different: has different life experiences at work AND play. And controlling stick bounce or pedal response depends on those experiences that have trained your body's muscular system's responses in various ways. We use these lifetime-trained systems and react accordingly!

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