Natural talent

[Lafirin]

what do you guys think about natural talent? do you think people with this are ALOT better then people who just practice alot?

[crazymanwithaplunger]

what do you guys think about natural talent? do you think people with this are ALOT better then people who just practice alot?

Well, it often seems to apear that way, but I think to be honest it comes down to dedication. If someone tries and practices, never gives up and just keeps going, that is more beneficial than anything. Sure natural talent helps make the process easier to a point, but you can only be so good without practicsing and dedicating yourself to something.

I remember reading a study in the paper a few months back that addressed this exact idea, in sports, IQ, music ability, all areas. They found that while natural ability was often found in the elite, it only served to help them to be average without trying to hard. To excel however, practise and discipline were the most important things. Actually dedicating their lives to this particular persuit, that's where the difference was. And not eveyrone at the top has had natural ability - look at Michale Jordan, he was rejected form his high school team.

ALso, you then need a way to quantify "natural ability". In drumming, maybe it means natural rythm or timing. I think if you just don't have rythm, it makes it hard, and rythm is one of those things you kinda have or you don't. That's why I reckon so many speed metal drummers are white - don't need rythm to just play quick.

[Lafirin]

thanks for that crazymanwithaplunger. I was actually just reading this on Google. This guy said exactly what you just said pretty much. Dedication and the desire to play that certain instrument will, in the end be the deciding factor of 'good' and 'real good'. The reason i brought this up was because I just had one of experiences that when you hear something and your kind of uneasy about it and you try to research it a bit to put your self at ease with it. My best friend had said he had the "best" jam session he had in along time. He said that everyone he was jammin with just knew what to do, because the four members him and 3 other people had a natural talent. Then i was thinking, mabye I won't be able to jam like that with him because i may not have a certain amount of 'natural talent'. but like i said, i beleive in the overall dedication to music. anyone else with any thoughts would be great!

[livewire80]

natural talent? well, in my opinion, anyone that has the ability to think and is blessed with standard physical attributes such as arms legs head fingers etc (you catch my drift) has the ability to learn anything that they choose.

natural talent with drums. if anyone that has never played before got on to my drum kit and played it the way i do after three plus years of playing, i would take all my clothes off and run down the street naked.

i agree with crazy that since drumming is so dynamic, yes someone can be natural at timing for example or rythm. But thats not to say you cant learn timing or rythm and i think that playing the drums helpls develop that in a person. natural at coordination and those independance exercises?? no way. that takes a brain re-train to allow your brain to operate in a way that the average person can not.

anyway im just rambling on but basically to be a so called "natural" at playing the drums in general? well you wont know that until you actually "learn" how to play and get coordinated and develop the independance and strength etc.

[drum_chick]

For the last 2 months learning how to play the drums has been something very challenging for me, however, I do have the natural talent of having unbelievable rhythm. I’m not bragging just speaking the truth (I get it from my mother) so I agree with all above. Although I may have been blessed with rhythm I still need to practice a lot, I really thought because I had the natural talent of rhythm I’d be able to just sit down and play the drums somewhat (yeah right!) If someone with the natural talent of rhythm were to sit down in front of my practice pad and do what I do, which isn’t much, I would run down the street naked as well LOL

[Roaddebris]

Show me a professional musician and I'll show you someone who is very right brained, very creative. They're born that way.

[Sanzen]

I think everything can be learned, for things such as rhythm, or timing it can be learned, some people it comes to quicker and more naturally, some it takes a bit. If someone who has never seen a drum kit before sat down at my drums and played what i play not only would i run down the street naked.......i'd light myself on fire beforehand. hahhahaha

[crazymanwithaplunger]

Show me a professional musician and I'll show you someone who is very right brained, very creative. They're born that way.

Can you tell if they're a criminal from the size of their skull too?

If that were true most musicians would be left handed (like me), but the most common musician is right handed - I say this because the brain is cross-hemispheric. Also, the idea that lefties (right hemisphere dominant) are more creative is actually a myth. I saw a study on the discovery channel recently that showed there is actually no difference. Then A Current Affair (in Aus) did a story on it because it must have been a slow news week or something, and said the same thing

[livewire80]

very interesting crazy, very interesting. that does go against this "what side of the brain do you think with" all this new stuff they come up with these days with technology really spins me out

[crazymanwithaplunger]

I think everything can be learned, for things such as rhythm, or timing it can be learned, some people it comes to quicker and more naturally, some it takes a bit. If someone who has never seen a drum kit before sat down at my drums and played what i play not only would i run down the street naked.......i'd light myself on fire beforehand. hahhahaha

Timing yes, rythm, no. Sorry, but i've watched too many white guys(most common perpertraitor) dance badly after years of lessons and knowing the steps to be convinced that rythm can be learned. Some people just don't have it and never will. Those dancers may know the steps, may have the timing down, and do an ok job, but they don't look natural, there is no flow or grace or anything because of no rythm.

[livewire80]

i dont think the colour of a person really makes a difference. i mean really, that is probably just a myth too

[Roaddebris]

Wow! I'm really shocked that a group of artists like yourselves think creativity can be taught. I don't have a bit of hard science to back it up, but that view goes against everything I've experienced in my 4+ decades. Sure, you can teach just about anybody to play a scale, but to really express oneself musically in an artistic way, as far as I'm concerned, that is a gift.

drummer, DrumBum, get in here and back me up!!!!!!!!!!

[crazymanwithaplunger]

Wow! I'm really shocked that a group of artists like yourselves think creativity can be taught. I don't have a bit of hard science to back it up, but that view goes against everything I've experienced in my 4+ decades. Sure, you can teach just about anybody to play a scale, but to really express oneself musically in an artistic way, as far as I'm concerned, that is a gift.

drummer, DrumBum, get in here and back me up!!!!!!!!!!

Ok, not actually disagreeing with you here, but I think what your referring to is the guys that we refer to as "masters" - natural talent combined with ALOT of hard work and dedication. Guys like Niel Paert, Danny Carey Buddy Rich etc... the musicality and creativity of it is a different thing altogether.

Also

i dont think the colour of a person really makes a difference. i mean really, that is probably just a myth too

Maybe your right, I was just saying that the most common perpetrators of "unnatural" rythm etc.. seem to be white. It could just be an image thing or whatever, and it is, really, irrelevant. Someone's colour wasn't meant to be an indicator of their ability to play an instrument or dance or whatever, it was just an observation about something specific. It's like saying "White people can't play sport" - it's not actually true, but if you look at professional atheltes, most of them are black. It's just the way it is.

Please don't start on a whole "well what about golf/surfing/swimming/or whatever, they're mostly white" or something because that's not my point. I'm not saying white people don't pay sports or that white people aren't as good as black people or anything like that. It's just observational.

[drum_chick]

I have yet to meet a white guy that can really dance...... LOL

[pastor_bob]

I have yet to meet a white guy that can really dance...... LOL

Hate to be bragging (especially since I couldn't do it now), but I fall into that white guy catagory, and I won a dance contest when I was a few years younger.

[bongobro]

I have yet to meet a white guy that can really dance...... LOL

Fred Astaire--one of the greatest dancers of all time--just happened to be a drummer...

think about it... (meant to hit my usual cool icon but...I was all thumbs (LOL)!

[pastor_bob]

Fred Astaire--one of the greatest dancers of all time--just happened to be a drummer...

think about it... (meant to hit my usual cool icon but...I was all thumbs (LOL)!

Oh, fine. Had to throw Fred Astair in there. Now I feel like a hack! LOL

[crazymanwithaplunger]

Fred Astair yes, and Gene Kelly too was very good. But those guys are fomr back in the dy sort of thing - entertainers knew how to really entertain - had to dance, sing and act - those people had more talent in the little finger than alot of todays celebs.

[drummer]

Wow! I'm really shocked that a group of artists like yourselves think creativity can be taught. I don't have a bit of hard science to back it up, but that view goes against everything I've experienced in my 4+ decades. Sure, you can teach just about anybody to play a scale, but to really express oneself musically in an artistic way, as far as I'm concerned, that is a gift.

drummer, DrumBum, get in here and back me up!!!!!!!!!!

When I was younger, I thought you either had it or you didn't. But as I've gotten older (I'm also over 40), I think some things can be taught. That said; it pales in comparison to those that are born with natural ability.

One of the things that really helped me understand this was teaching. I taught for many years. I taught kids that had gobs of natural ability that didn't get as far because they didn't apply themselves. And I taught students that maybe had less natural ability but they tried harder than everyone else and they would often do really well. When it's all said and done however, it was evident that it basically comes down to a couple of things:

1. How much natural ability you have.
2. How much do you apply yourself?

I had one student who had always wanted to play the drums. His son was taking from me and he was doing great. This inspired him to want to take lessons. Let me tell you; this guy was horrible!! He was the epitomy of "no talent". And it was funny because he wanted it so bad but struggled with even the simplist of beats. He would spend weeks on a simple rock pattern. When I was young, I taught myself all that basic stuff. I had to level with him and I basically told him one day (in the most diplomatic way I could) that he wasn't cut out to be a drummer and it would take a long time to progress. He told me he already knew that by now and that he still wanted to take lessons because it was fun. I agreed that he should because if it was simply about the fun, then that was good enough for me. He had a great attitude about it.

So....
I think that people have different levels of natural ability. It's not a slam dunk for everyone. For example; I primarily taught myself in the beginning as I mentioned before. I also studied hard, spent hundreds of hours practicing, went to school, ... and became a good drummer. That said; there are guys that seemed to have excelled way past me with even less effort. I could never figure that out. And then of course you have the prodigies. One look at Jacob Armen or Tony Royster at a very young age and it's evident that people are given different levels of talent. They were outplaying me at 7 and 8 years old and I had put in years of practice.

As far as creativity...
My wife has little of it. I've been married to her for a long time. She's just not geared that way. I've been extremely creative all my life. I make my own Christmas cards, I do collages, I think creatively, I come up with hundreds of ideas all the time, and of course I play music. My wife rarely creates anything. She doesn't even seem interested. I've been with her a long time and let me tell you, this isn't just cooincidence. She's just not "wired" that way. She's a great gal and filled with her own, unique qualities (many of which I'm lacking). But this is more evidence that not everyone is naturally creative.

[drum_chick]

When I was younger, I thought you either had it or you didn't. But as I've gotten older (I'm also over 40), I think some things can be taught. That said; it pales in comparison to those that are born with natural ability.

One of the things that really helped me understand this was teaching. I taught for many years. I taught kids that had gobs of natural ability that didn't get as far because they didn't apply themselves. And I taught students that maybe had less natural ability but they tried harder than everyone else and they would often do really well. When it's all said and done however, it was evident that it basically comes down to a couple of things:

1. How much natural ability you have.
2. How much do you apply yourself?

I had one student who had always wanted to play the drums. His son was taking from me and he was doing great. This inspired him to want to take lessons. Let me tell you; this guy was horrible!! He was the epitomy of "no talent". And it was funny because he wanted it so bad but struggled with even the simplist of beats. He would spend weeks on a simple rock pattern. When I was young, I taught myself all that basic stuff. I had to level with him and I basically told him one day (in the most diplomatic way I could) that he wasn't cut out to be a drummer and it would take a long time to progress. He told me he already knew that by now and that he still wanted to take lessons because it was fun. I agreed that he should because if it was simply about the fun, then that was good enough for me. He had a great attitude about it.

So....
I think that people have different levels of natural ability. It's not a slam dunk for everyone. For example; I primarily taught myself in the beginning as I mentioned before. I also studied hard, spent hundreds of hours practicing, went to school, ... and became a good drummer. That said; there are guys that seemed to have excelled way past me with even less effort. I could never figure that out. And then of course you have the prodigies. One look at Jacob Armen or Tony Royster at a very young age and it's evident that people are given different levels of talent. They were outplaying me at 7 and 8 years old and I had put in years of practice.

As far as creativity...
My wife has little of it. I've been married to her for a long time. She's just not geared that way. I've been extremely creative all my life. I make my own Christmas cards, I do collages, I think creatively, I come up with hundreds of ideas all the time, and of course I play music. My wife rarely creates anything. She doesn't even seem interested. I've been with her a long time and let me tell you, this isn't just cooincidence. She's just not "wired" that way. She's a great gal and filled with her own, unique qualities (many of which I'm lacking). But this is more evidence that not everyone is naturally creative.

Well said drummer!

[drum_chick]

Go you pastor BOB!!!!!! LOL

But I have to say for every 1 white guy that can dance there are 10 non-white guys that can....... It's just a fact. I have black and hispanic people in my family, they can all dance. Even the one's that can't dance according to the "black" or "hispanic" standards can dance better then the white people in my family (except for me and my mom, we can shake our booties with the best of them LOL)....... I'm not trying to start an argument, I'm just stating the obvious.

[pastor_bob]

Go you pastor BOB!!!!!! LOL

But I have to say for every 1 white guy that can dance there are 10 non-white guys that can....... It's just a fact. I have black and hispanic people in my family, they can all dance. Even the one's that can't dance according to the "black" or "hispanic" standards can dance better then the white people in my family (except for me and my mom, we can shake our booties with the best of them LOL)....... I'm not trying to start an argument, I'm just stating the obvious.

Just messing with you before! I do agree that culturally, dancing is an accepted form of expression (I won't point out which cultures, so as not to be offensive), and the white the white male probably receives the least support for the art of dance. So, point well taken.

[drum_chick]

Just messing with you before! I do agree that culturally, dancing is an accepted form of expression (I won't point out which cultures, so as not to be offensive), and the white the white male probably receives the least support for the art of dance. So, point well taken.

LOL!

And here are some videos that prove white men can not dance LOL

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XTcyrWwHx68

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IrYlYTPbMAs

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hYZre8kEsuw

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Zr4TWyA3UM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MOplD3WCF3o

I'm dying here!!!!!

[Upxl]

Drumchick,
Doesn’t matter if the guy’s white, black, yellow or purple with green spots …
A guy that dance’s (alone that is) is the same thing as a guy in the nude.

Nobody likes it and even less people want to see it.


Drummer,
I’ve wanted to ask this for some time now.
Do you think your every day creativity enhances because of playing a musical instrument?

[Roaddebris]

I'll cop to being both white and a crapy dancer, but I have to say that I never liked dancing either. I mean, I had to do it when I was dating, but I always thought it was a little...gay. Luckily, I married a woman who also doesn't like to dance.