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Thread: Removing "attack" from recorded tom tone

  1. #1

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    Default Removing "attack" from recorded tom tone

    Here's a question for you guys micing and recording. When I listen to playback of my band's sets, the tom sound is mostly attack. I can hear the rest of it, but it's a lot of "slap". I would like to get more of the tom tone. Micing from top, per venue owner's request. Samson drum kit mic set.

    Playing a small room (club). Not trying to record in studio - just trying to get the best sound we can live.

    Using Pinstripes and stock luddy resos. I tuned higher than I wanted to try to get more of the tom tone. But I'm still hearing mostly the slap of the stick, I guess you'd call it. Using wood tip 5A's.

    Is there an EQ band to adjust? How high off head should mic be? What to try?

    Thanks
    Randy

  2. #2

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    Default Re: Removing "attack" from recorded tom tone

    I think the issue here is that you're using pinstripes. They're definitely a head that's biased more towards attack than resonance. Perhaps coated emperors or G2s would be a better choice for this situation. Also, spot mics on toms are going to be biased towards attack, since you're micing the batter head. A single or pair of overheads would give your drums more body.
    Mmm... Saturns.

  3. #3

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    Default Re: Removing "attack" from recorded tom tone

    I was worried about that choice of heads, but they are only a couple months old so I'm going to live with them for a while and I'll change next time. But they do look good. (!)

    Yeah, your point about micing from top makes sense. What would micing from bottom do? Too much ring, no attack? So you think a couple of overheads might work? Would definitely be easier to set up. We're using one overhead now, as well as individuals. The club owner insists that it all has to be mic'd to work in his room and he knows his room.

    Thanks for the tips.
    Randy

  4. #4

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    I don't have any experience with micing the reso heads on toms. I would think that with a small room, you wouldn't need any more than two overhead condensers, a kick mic, and a snare mic. Even that might be overkill.
    Mmm... Saturns.

  5. #5

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    Default Re: Removing "attack" from recorded tom tone

    I think I'll see if we can do that next time. Give it a try anyway.

    Thanks
    Randy

  6. #6

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    I'm not an audio engineer but I THINK when you mic the reso head you have to switch the phasing on your mics. Maybe I'm wrong...but for some reason this is in my head.

  7. #7

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    Try adding some compression to the drums. I don't know the exact frequency of the slap attack, so you'll have to play around with cutting the frequency. It tends to be fairly high that's all I remember. Don't lowpass the drums, btw, just try to play around and find the right frequency to lower.

    The only two constants I have are DW and Zildjian.

  8. #8

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    Quote Originally Posted by weezy View Post
    I don't have any experience with micing the reso heads on toms. I would think that with a small room, you wouldn't need any more than two overhead condensers, a kick mic, and a snare mic. Even that might be overkill.
    I have given up on close micing my toms in bars/clubs and go exclusively with an overhead pair. This lets ME control tom balance and not an engineer (who is probably an out of work guitar player). I also get a stunning, open, round tone from my drums. We record every show live and I always come through in the mix just fine. If the club owner insists on close micing, you can always send that to the house sound and the overheads to your recording device.

  9. #9

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    "you can always send that to the house sound and the overheads to your recording device. "

    Okay, I'm not knowledgeable enough to do that yet, and the sound guys are "lacking", to be "nice" about it. It makes sense, but I'm less than a noob at the console. I can do very little there. But I hope to try the overheads tomorrow night and see how that goes.

    Thanks for the ideas.
    Randy

  10. #10

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    A band member told me to mic off the heads,we dont own overheads.He said you get a better sound off the head than the resos.I hope this helps.I dont know if this is better but it sounded great to me.We dont have clip on mics but they were only a few inches away on mic stands.
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    T.C.

  11. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by 66musicmaster View Post
    "you can always send that to the house sound and the overheads to your recording device. "

    Okay, I'm not knowledgeable enough to do that yet, and the sound guys are "lacking", to be "nice" about it. It makes sense, but I'm less than a noob at the console. I can do very little there. But I hope to try the overheads tomorrow night and see how that goes.

    Thanks for the ideas.
    Randy
    I'll run you through the method here:

    Front of house sound is normal and not messed with in any way. On any board worth being in a production environment, there will be a series of auxiliary (AUX) knobs, probably 2-4. Take the master "AUX OUT" for any of these not being used and run a line to the recorder. On each channel, there will be an AUX SEND knob. Use those to adjust how much of each channel gets sent to the recorder, then adjust the master volume (AUX SEND MASTER) to the appropriate level (look at the meter on the recorder). The pain here is that you are basically balancing everything twice and you won't know the results unless someone stands at the board with a set of headphones, or you listen to the recording in a set break and adjust afterwards. While doing this, I had the luxury of using the same board every gig, so once we set the levels, it was 90% close to start each night.

  12. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by ShaneRoney View Post
    I'll run you through the method here:

    Front of house sound is normal and not messed with in any way. On any board worth being in a production environment, there will be a series of auxiliary (AUX) knobs, probably 2-4. Take the master "AUX OUT" for any of these not being used and run a line to the recorder. On each channel, there will be an AUX SEND knob. Use those to adjust how much of each channel gets sent to the recorder, then adjust the master volume (AUX SEND MASTER) to the appropriate level (look at the meter on the recorder). The pain here is that you are basically balancing everything twice and you won't know the results unless someone stands at the board with a set of headphones, or you listen to the recording in a set break and adjust afterwards. While doing this, I had the luxury of using the same board every gig, so once we set the levels, it was 90% close to start each night.
    How long does this set up take you?

  13. #13

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    Your first problem is the Samson Mic. There no good. Try a Shure SM57 a inch parallell above the tom shell pointing toward you just above the top of the rim. Make sure the mic does not touch the drum. Back a little of where you strike the drum. Look at the pic. Try that and see if it is any better.

  14. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by VIbes View Post
    Your first problem is the Samson Mic. There no good. Try a Shure SM57 a inch parallell above the tom shell pointing toward you just above the top of the rim. Make sure the mic does not touch the drum. Back a little of where you strike the drum. Look at the pic. Try that and see if it is any better.
    How low do you have thosr rack toms tuned? You can see the wrinkles in the pic.

  15. #15

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    It's reflection from the camera and the lighting. There tight. No wrinkles lol. That would be bad. It just looks that way.

  16. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by VIbes View Post
    It's reflection from the camera and the lighting. There tight. No wrinkles lol. That would be bad. It just looks that way.
    OK lol

  17. #17

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    You guys are great. Great suggestions. We are using the house system where we play and all he has for drums is the Samson clip on set. I can appreciate how much better a SM57 might be, though. When we play using our own PA, our kybd guy owns a PA company and he sets up an overhead or two, kick and snare and we have done fine.

    The good news is that last night I set up my mics, and using what I've been learning, I adjusted the clip-on further away from the heads. MUCH BETTER! Getting somewhere. I am listening to the playback now, but so far is much better. JUst gotta get the tune a lilttle better. My 12" is pretty good, but the FT is still a little too low - just gotta make some adjustments, hope I do't mess up the 12 having to retune. Not bad for a cheap kit.

    Thanks for all ya'll's help. Making a lot of progress in tuning and mic-ing
    Randy

  18. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by marko138 View Post
    How long does this set up take you?
    This takes me literally no time at all (the bass player does it ).

    Seriously, though...The first time it probably took an extra 10 minutes to dial in (including 3 vocals, bass, keys, and guitar), but he just leaves the settings on the board and is one plug away from adding the digi-recorder into the loop. After I mic-up, he has me hit the kick and snare 3 or 4 times each to make sure I'm not peaking out the board, and away we go. Oftentimes in small clubs, my drum mix is going to the tape only and not into the main mix.

  19. #19

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    I think I got it finally! Tuned and used what I've learned over the past month. Got the drums sounding good by themselves. Placed the mics higher than I have been. Nice tone, no "slap" on the heads. Tune them higher than you think. I have read that here a lot. When combined with the rest of the band, they do great. No damping of any sort and they ring out nicely.

    Thanks for all ya'lls help.
    Randy

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