Newbie playing over music - tips?

[poodlesdrum]

I am at the baby steps level, and will start playing over recorded music soon, to get my "money beat" a little more assured, and comfortable

Any tips or mistakes to avoid?
I am thinking of the mechanics of it.

I have collected a good list of recommended "supportive" material, AC/DC and the like, so I am set with that part.

I have a local community radio with great and varied music, and it is fun trying to latch on, either an unknown song, or an old classic... or lose it completely! Maybe there is some learning done in the losing-it part too here as well?

[itchie]

i would suggest drum lessons

but if you cant get a few drum lessons try searching drumchat for a recommended book thread

[Conorrrrrrk]

Hey, Im new to DC and this is my first reply based post!
But I have had drum lessons for around 7 months and that has helped me a lot! so my suggestion would to get some! Also another thing that helps me is listening to music and thinking about the timings and etc!

So my suggestions would be get drum lessons, listening to a lot more songs with focused drum beats or simply browse youtube and get some online drum lessons. Maybe mike johnston!

[poodlesdrum]

Agreed on the need for lessons.

I was asking for tips about playing over music, specifically. i.e., what works well, what does not.
I am still working on getting comfortable behind the set and the "mechanics" of it, while cleaning up my eight-note beat.

[Conorrrrrrk]

What works for me is a good set of ear phone, maybe anything as little as skull candy ear phones or maybe Dr Dre Beatz! ear phones are good because they cancel out the sound! and when you have that sorted then it lets you play while listening to the music, and if your getting it wrong then instead of being out of time, u can stil listen clearly and get around the drum track

[DavidH]

If you really want to clean up your timing, I would recommend playing over a metronome. However, playing over music is more fun, so just relax and make sure you're on the beat. You don't have to play what the recorded drummer is playing, though you may find yourself trying to by the end of the song anyway. Pick songs that have a comfortable tempo for you, if keeping clean time is the goal.

I'm probably not telling you anything that you don't already know, as I rarely sit down to play along to a song. I will say on the few times I've done it, I've felt good about it, but playing against a metronome let's me know how good or bad my time really is.

[jafo]

My advice would be to key in on the groove of the songs. I still wouldn't worry to much about playing note for note. Just have fun with it. I still try different stuff on sings I know well.

Just don't forget to try and experiment with making your own beats. It's very rewarding. You can create your own fills and such.

[Dagon2000]

I’m going to agree and disagree with comments already made. First, yes, you should get some lessons in if you haven’t already done so. Good drumming is not about having good timing, it’s about having excellent timing and as good as you may think your timing it, an instructor will make it that much better. Drumming is also about subtlety and it’s very difficult to pick up on a lot of the subtleties when listening to songs and playing them outright, especially it if isn’t something you’re accustomed to doing. Again, an instructor can help here. Going more into the subtleties, drumming isn’t about hitting your drum head for a beat – well, it is, but how you hit it is important too. Light taps, buzz rolls, syncopation, yada yada yada – very difficult to learn on your own but an instructor can help you.

Ok – enough with the instructor. I’ve only been taking lessons for about 5 months now. About a month ago I started getting bored with practicing sight-reading, sticking, etc so I decided to start playing along with tunes. First point – I don’t recommend playing along with songs until you are very comfortable with your technique. After a month of playing along with songs, I recently elected to go back to basics and scrap the play-along for a while with more focus on rudiments (single-stroke roll, double-stroke roll, paradiddles, flams, drags, etc), reading, sticking, fills and syncopation. Why? Because there is only so much you can do when you play along with songs if you don’t have the core skills required to play the tunes. Granted, there is some stuff that’s just really easy to play for lack of any complexity (AC/DC is a great example), but more often then not I found myself lost or simply sounding bad when playing along with “beginner-intermediate” songs.

So my suggestion after all is said and done – if I mentioned anything above that you don’t know – scrap the songs and keep practicing and building up your chops. If you are not fully comfortable with anything mentioned above – scrap the songs and keep practicing and building up your chops. And for pete’s sake, get an instructor. I’ll never understand the folks who are adamant in going it alone. Really, most instructors charge around $15-$20 for 30 minutes each week; it’s not like its some get-rich-quick scheme.

[poodlesdrum]

I appreciate these lengthly replies very much.

So, take-home is: work on technique, and seek an instructor!

[gonefishin]

Agreed on the need for lessons.

I was asking for tips about playing over music, specifically. i.e., what works well, what does not.
I am still working on getting comfortable behind the set and the "mechanics" of it, while cleaning up my eight-note beat.

Hey poodles
I agree with getting some lessons when you get time because this will help keep you from llearning bad habits.

But playing over music is the best ( my opinion ) way to learn on your free time. Ive been practicing this way for 30 years.

I play along to the radio all the time, just flip the station and change genre of music to keep your self diversified.

[trickg]

I think that whether or not a person gets an instructor is based on the person and the context of the situation. Did Buddy Rich have an instructor? Nope. Not everyone "needs" one. Something to keep in mind is that an instructor can't do the work for you - all they can do is point out things in your playing you might not otherwise notice, and they will insure to help to fill in the blanks for your weak areas by giving you things to work on. Let me repeat that: giving YOU things to work on - at the end of the day, the work is still done by the student, and person can be a "student" of music in a number of different ways.

I like to say that I'm primarly self-taught as a musician. 30 years on the trumpet, 8 years behind the drum kit, and I have had very few formal lessons along the way. That doesn't mean that I haven't "studied" though - I've picked the brains of anyone who I thought might have something to offer me, and I've paid a lot of dues in the practice room. 10 of the 30 years I've been behind the horn were playing in the Army Band program, and I've never had a problem either finding or keeping a gig, so I must be doing something right on my own.

But, as others have said, there is a lot to drumming that doesn't involve the basics in coordination or time keeping, and there are a lot of subtleties in feel and touch that take some time to learn, as well as an awareness of what you need to work on. For this, there is almost no better teacher than recording your playing and listening to it critically - not only to find what you are doing wrong, but also to help you find out what you do well. I thought I was a much better drummer than I was until I started hearing recordings of my playing.

(Something to note here, I'm not a great drummer by any means - my drumming endeavors are almost 100% worship band related, so I was listening to recordings of my playing from recorded church services. My goal is not to be a chops king, but rather to provide a foundation for the band to build on, so I haven't found a need to get formal instruction at this point. Yet. But also keep in mind that I've been able to leverage a lot of what I know about being a musician into my drumming from what I know about playing trumpet.)

So, with all of that ramble out of the way, I agree that a good instructor can cut a lot of time off of the learning curve, but that an astute, talented musician will find their own path without one.

Pick simple things within your ability range to reinforce what you do well, but always work to push yourself with things that make you work and strech the abilities you have. Most importantly, find a way to record yourself and be honest to yourself about what you hear, and strive to improve upon it.

[drummer]

Great post Trick!

[Texdrumr]

I briefly scanned all the responses above, so I may be duplicating here. Here is my two cents, and keep in mind, I've been at this a whopping 3 months.

1. Instructor/lessons - if only for a short time, it WILL help in my opinion.

2. Play along with your favorite music on your ipod with good ear buds/phones.

3. Focus on matching the fundamental beat in the song, note for note.

4. Do not, as a beginner, try to mimmick the fills and transitions perfectly. Instead, KEEP TIME WITH THE SONG perfectly. Fills, no fills, doesn't matter in the beginning. Basic beat, switch from the hat to the ride during chorus and back again during the verses. And, always know where the "1" is.

5. If you aren't having fun, you're doing it wrong.

Just my opinion.

Randy

[Dagon2000]

I second that - good post Trick. It makes me feel the need to elaborate on my previous post. Look, I don't think that an instructor is 100% necessary but I think that an instructor is going to make the learning curve a lot less...curvy. LOL. Take me for instance - I can pretty much keep time and I liked air drumming in my car - that's why I started taking lessons at the young age of 31 *cough*. In taking lessons, I found that the "skills" I had were only a drop in the bucket of the skills I need to be a decent drummer.

Now, joining this forum in particular has been of great help to me in learning some of the finer points, however having an instructor who I meet with on regularly scheduled days once a week and who has also proven to be available throughout the week via email or phone has been the best help I have received. There's small things that are big issues that my instructor has helped me with. I'll name some - proper grip, finger bounce, counting, transcribing, warming up, stretching, tuning, accenting, etc and so forth - too much to list. Would I have learned all of this on my own? Yeah, probably. Would I have learned it as quickly? I doubt it. Would I have understood it as well as I do? I doubt that as well.

To me though, one of the best aspects of having an instructor is simply playing along with him on beats that I'm having a hard time with. He watches me and corrects me - he forces me to count my beats - he teaches me little tricks that help me "get it".

Anyway, I spose the point of this thread isn't to discuss the need or lack thereof in finding a good drum instructor so let me return to the original point. During the time I was playing with tunes, I had some regulars that I played along with so here's some of my choices.

Metallica - Hero of the Day (great for basic beats as well as teaching you to play at different volume and tempo)

Iron Maiden - Run to the Hills (To be honest, all I practiced on this song was the beginning to work on hat 16ths)

Slayer - Raining Blood (FYI - I was terrible because frankly, this is way out of my league but it allowed me the chance to practice fast kick patterns - god bless my wife for putting up with my practice)

Aside from those, I'd do pretty much any rock from 70's/80's/early 90's. Most of the 80's rock (Ie glam metal) has simple beats that will allow you to practice your timing and fills without worrying to much about losing your place. Another fun one is "Play with me" by Extreme.

[jafo]

I didn't start playing along or over music until I was confident in my time keeping and counting ability. It was a good 7 or 8 months, near the end of my lessons with my last instructor, that I started playing over music.

The benefits I got from this was it did force me to learn new techniques. In or to mimic certain fills or beats, it was required to learn coordination between my feet bad hands during Flams. Just an example. It taught me different ways to use my accents .

So to me, I wish I would have started playing with songs sooner. New experiences are not always negatives. I've picked up other things that I feel have helped me.

[oaklandrichie]

I like to play on my knees when listening to music. I know it's not the same as a kit, but it's a great way to improve your timing.
Lessons can helpful, but they're not for everybody. I've been playing for 25 years w/o a lesson, and have no regrets.
Have fun!

[trickg]

I know I talked about not necessarily "needing" instruction and that I'm "primarily self-taught." I've had formal instruction here and there over the years on trumpet, and I took lessons on drums for a couple of months until my schedule got to a point where I was having a hard time fitting it in. With trumpet, at one point I was having some chops issues so I went to the lead trumpet player of the US Army Jazz Ambassadors, and in one lesson, he managed to help me straighten some things out.

With drums, the few lessons I took helped me to look at drumming in a couple of different ways - I started drumming at age 33 and even as an experienced musician, there were still some details that I was overlooking.

I just don't want it to seem like I was devaluing having an instructor because I'm not, but sometimes the gigging school of hard knocks can be a pretty good instructor too.

[Kazaamski]

You might consider getting some good isolation headphones. Or a loud stereo system. I have a hard time hearing the music over my drums, and often fall off the beat in fills.

[jafo]

I know I talked about not necessarily "needing" instruction and that I'm "primarily self-taught." I've had formal instruction here and there over the years on trumpet, and I took lessons on drums for a couple of months until my schedule got to a point where I was having a hard time fitting it in. With trumpet, at one point I was having some chops issues so I went to the lead trumpet player of the US Army Jazz Ambassadors, and in one lesson, he managed to help me straighten some things out.

With drums, the few lessons I took helped me to look at drumming in a couple of different ways - I started drumming at age 33 and even as an experienced musician, there were still some details that I was overlooking.

I just don't want it to seem like I was devaluing having an instructor because I'm not, but sometimes the gigging school of hard knocks can be a pretty good instructor too.

I undserstand perfectly. To me I look at instruction on instruments like this. To me, if I decided to just start playing out of a book or tried to learn drumming on my own, I would'nt be as far along as I am now. I feel that taking drum lessons is like an accelerator. it helps things set in alittle quicker, fast track so to speak. Unless your just truly gifted in some way, lessons are good just for this simple fact of a quicker learning curve if there is musical talent there and or the desire to learn.

[trickg]

You might consider getting some good isolation headphones. Or a loud stereo system. I have a hard time hearing the music over my drums, and often fall off the beat in fills.

This - and don't skimp if you can help it. I have two sets of Shure in-ears - a set of older EC3s (roughly $130 new at the time) and a newer set of Shure ES425s. (Street price around $300) Oddly enough, I like the older EC3s better, but aside from that, they help me to protect my ears and allow me to practice with the music so that I can hear both my drums and the music without one covering up the other.

I also play with my praise band with a click track rig I put together using in-ears, and that's another thread for another time, but the point is that my ears have really thanked me for it - I rarely play drums without some kind of ear protection anymore.

[jordison515]

I suggest if you're playing to music to pick something with a strong backbeat. That means no off time stuff for now. If you can count 1, 2, 3, 4 on a song throughout the song without questioning if you're off, it's a song you should play. The key to drums is having a good sense of time to complement the rest of your playing. Like people have stated before a metronome is very important. You might not need a teacher just yet but do practice to a metronome and songs that have a defined backbeat, like AC/DC as you stated before. Sure, this may seem tedious and boring but you'll thank us when you're 10 years into drumming and can play anything you want with ease.

[gonefishin]

[QUOTE=trickg;388171]I think that whether or not a person gets an instructor is based on the person and the context of the situation. Did Buddy Rich have an instructor? Nope. Not everyone "needs" one.

I understand and would agree that this statement needs to be on an individual basis

I like to say that I'm primarly self-taught as a musician. 30 years on the trumpet, 8 years behind the drum kit, and I have had very few formal lessons along the way. That doesn't mean that I haven't "studied" though - I've picked the brains of anyone who I thought might have something to offer me, and I've paid a lot of dues in the practice room.


I too have a similsr backgound, I took weekly piano lessons for 8 years before switching to drums. In the beginning I had formal lessons but they only lasted a short period of time.

But, as others have said, there is a lot to drumming that doesn't involve the basics in coordination or time keeping, and there are a lot of subtleties in feel and touch that take some time to learn, as well as an awareness of what you need to work on.

I think along with your method of recording yourself and playing it back that a lot can also be learned by playing along to music you enjoy listening to and also by just listening and watching others play.

(Something to note here, I'm not a great drummer by any means - my drumming endeavors are almost 100% worship band related,

I always say " youre only playing for fun" unless you are a pro drummer earning your keep by playing out.

QUOTE]


Let me also add, nice write up and welcome to the board

[trickg]

Thanks! I appreciate the welcome!

My goal as a drummer is to be as smooth, polished, and professional sounding as possible, so I do a lot of listening, and I pick a lot of stuff apart to see if I can put my finger on what's going on in the drum parts of the recordings I listen to and cover - the stuff that serves to drive the part and make it hip. I figure, why reinvent the wheel? The cats on the recordings are getting paid much more to drum than me, and there's a reason for that - they are solid drummers, otherwise, they wouldn't be on the recordings. If I can hook into some of what they are doing, then it would stand to reason that it will make me sound more polished and professional. Theoretically.

I also work a lot with a click track and recordings I know were recorded to a click. I feel that this helps me keep better time even when I'm not using it.

I once went to a clinic where I learned what I felt was a great lesson about playing drums - not so sure it's totally applicable to the thread, but I think it's solid information to pass along. The clinician was a Boston area drummer named Jerome Deupree. (Used to drum for a band called "Morphine") He called up 5 volunteers from the crowd, and sitting behind his kit using his sticks, they all played the same basic backbeat groove - think "Back in Black" - eighth hats, bass on 1&3 with a 2&4 backbeat. EVERYONE sounded completely different, simply due to a difference in how each drummer approached their playing.

The point he was driving home was that everyone sounds different, gear is only a small part of your sound, and that you will always sound like you - there are great things to take away from drummers you idolize, but don't ever try to sound just like them because you won't - you'll always sound like you. He further went on to say that it's good to really get comfortable with your own sound and style and to work to develop that rather than working so hard to sound like someone else.

[Manof1000Ages]

I think there has been a lot of good advice offered by people so far. I'll just throw in some additional thoughts. Texdrumr's last point is perhaps the most important one: have fun. You are embarking on a journey that has the ability to make you extremely happy--and I don't mean by becoming a world-famous drummer. I'm talking about the satisfaction of figuring out parts and just enjoying getting lost in the moment of playing. That is the most important thing.

As far as taking lessons or not, it really is a personal decision. I took lessons for about 4 years. I actually took them through the university near my home; students of percussion who want to become teachers often offer lessons. Personally, I am extremely happy I did. I think the two biggest things you gain from lessons are exposure to a variety of styles of music and the prevention of forming bad habits. An instructor can give you a strong basis on which to build your drumming skills and can help you ensure you are best approaching simple technique both in terms of technical execution and in terms of feel. An instructor can help you avoid common pitfalls and help find parts of your technique that are limiting you in some way. You'd be amazed how much moving a finger just slightly can dramatically change your playing! An instructor is in the best position to help you with that.

The second part of exploring different styles is important. I know some self-taught drummers who are very good, but whose horizons don't extend beyond only the genre of music they listen to regularly. As a drummer, I have found having a diverse set of styles to pull from has helped my playing in all of the styles. Make sure to open yourself up to music you don't normally listen to.

Lastly, protect your hearing!! This means wearing earplugs whenever you can. When I played along to music, I would have earplugs in and then headphones on top. Now, I have in-ear monitors. The former is a cheap and perfectly good solution. Some times, I would play without the earplugs and the constant ringing in my ears won't let me forget it.

Hope you have a blast!

[Larrysperf]

Ditto to all the above. I didnt see anyone mention get a good practice pad and learn your rudaments. ok Nuff said