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Thread: Christian guys try to stop satanist band from playing in Nothen Ireland

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    Default Christian guys try to stop satanist band from playing in Nothen Ireland

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M04U7cJL6Qs

    Haha i respect christians but these paticular christians were morons!

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    hah, those crazy irish
    Ostinato is the way to go!

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    They can have their own opinion. Yet they dont want to hear others opinions. I have chirstian friends but this is utterly closed mindedness. The christians say what they want but dont want to hear the other persons view. It upsets me that they can say what they want but when someone says a different belief of view they automatically attack their beliefs or views.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sanzen
    They can have their own opinion. Yet they dont want to hear others opinions. I have chirstian friends but this is utterly closed mindedness. The christians say what they want but dont want to hear the other persons view. It upsets me that they can say what they want but when someone says a different belief of view they automatically attack their beliefs or views.

    I think it's fair game to attack someones views and beliefs. It's out of bounds to attack them personally. I believe everyone has the right to believe whatever they want, but everything that everyone believes is not right.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Roaddebris
    I think it's fair game to attack someones views and beliefs. It's out of bounds to attack them personally. I believe everyone has the right to believe whatever they want, but everything that everyone believes is not right.
    What makes what someone believes right? No one is to say one thing is more right than another, especially coming to religion, because no one knows. Believe what you want but dont attack others beliefs is my opinion.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sanzen
    No one is to say one thing is more right than another, especially coming to religion, because no one knows.
    Ok, I'm going to attack your view...

    Dude, that's so self-defeating. You say it's not right to say one thing is more right than another? How do you know that's right? If you do know it's right, you just refuted your own statement.

    No-one knows? Do you know that? How do you know it? Are you sure? If you know it's true, then you just defeated your own statement.

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    As a pastor, I have to agree that everyone has the right to their own opinion. Most Christians, though, would say that they found something very special, and they simply want others to find it too. If I found a cave with an unlimited amount of money in it, I could keep it only to myself, or I could share it with the world. I'm sure that you could see that keeping it to myself would be incredibly selfish, and downright cruel.

    What I do not have the right to do is tell everyone that they have to take the money that I offer. Everyone has the right to refuse it, even though it might make me sad. Sometimes, as Christians, we want others to find what we found so much, that we get a little overbearing about it, but make no mistake, we wish nobody any harm.

    There is a famous (in the Christian world) philosophical essay called Pascal's wager. He had friend's that liked to bet at the horse track, so he explained his faith this way: If you are an atheist and I am a Christian and there is no God, then you lived as you liked, and I lived as I liked and then nothing, because there is no heaven. On the other hand, if there is a God, then the atheist lives the life that they choose and then misses out on heaven, because they rejected God, the Christian lived the life that they chose and then they receive heaven. The upshot of this is that the Christian lives a good life and cannot lose whether there is a God or not, the atheist, however, stands to lose everything if there is a God.

    Maybe this should have been on the Christian thread, but I wanted all my non-Christian friends to know that we love you guys, and we're having a good time talking with you.

    That is why Christians seem to want to convert non-Christians. It's not because we hate non-Christians, quite the opposite, we don't want anyone to find out that there is a consequence when it is too late. Yes, Christians can get a little overheated, and for that forgive us and know it's because we care.
    Last edited by pastor_bob; 05-24-2007 at 08:18 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Roaddebris
    Ok, I'm going to attack your view...

    Dude, that's so self-defeating. You say it's not right to say one thing is more right than another? How do you know that's right? If you do know it's right, you just refuted your own statement.

    No-one knows? Do you know that? How do you know it? Are you sure? If you know it's true, then you just defeated your own statement.
    Thats my opinion and im not saying its RIGHT im saying its what i believe, which most people should do, say their opinion is theirs and they believe it but that its not nessicarily right.

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    Sanzen, I appreciate your heart. You seem to have the classic Californian tolerance. The one thing we all have to watch out for is that our tolerance is shaped by the current post-modern philosophy that says that all "truth" is relative - what is true for you might not be true for me. This might be fine for some things, but if you said that murder was bad, I would be able to say that this was you truth, while for me, murder is good. We have to admit that there really are some constant truths.

    Please don't get me wrong, because I am not trying to say that Christians are right and everyone else to wrong, because it's not quite that simple. Christians make mistakes like everyone else. It's just that the concept of a Creator God was handed down by the Jews, and Christians following the same line of thinking, therefore, if someone wants to know about the Creator, doesn't make sense to talk to the ones that introduced the Creator to the world?

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    Quote Originally Posted by pastor_bob
    Sanzen, I appreciate your heart. You seem to have the classic Californian tolerance. The one thing we all have to watch out for is that our tolerance is shaped by the current post-modern philosophy that says that all "truth" is relative - what is true for you might not be true for me. This might be fine for some things, but if you said that murder was bad, I would be able to say that this was you truth, while for me, murder is good. We have to admit that there really are some constant truths.

    Please don't get me wrong, because I am not trying to say that Christians are right and everyone else to wrong, because it's not quite that simple. Christians make mistakes like everyone else. It's just that the concept of a Creator God was handed down by the Jews, and Christians following the same line of thinking, therefore, if someone wants to know about the Creator, doesn't make sense to talk to the ones that introduced the Creator to the world?
    Yes i agree some things are just morally wrong, i wasnt talking about acts though ( Murder,rape, anything like that) i was talking about beliefs. You can believe murder is right and thats fine but once you commit it thats when I have to intervien and say its terribly wrong. Thanks for your cool headed and reasonable discussing and also for not attacking my opinion but just expressing your, i gladly appreciate it.

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    Having watched the video, and then doing a bit of reading up on the lyrics of the bands songs (as I had not heard of them before) i think it is safe to say alot of people should be troubled by such a band. Not just becuase they sing about worshipping demons or anything like that, but because the message of their songs is so, well, twisted. I'm not going to quote lyrics, mainly because I have a feeling they will be blocked by drummer, but they are certainly not what you would call nice or good, or even reasonable.

    I get music that is dark, and messages about things that torment us and things like that, but this band, and others like them far too often take it too far and start singing (if you wanna call it that) about murder and rape and things like that, and not exactly putting them into a bad light either, and i think that is a major source of christians opposition to these bands being allowed to play anywhere.

    We'll add to that the various cases of churches being vandalised, and even burnt and destroyed, and christians even being killed in some cases by members of these types of bands, or their fans, and that adds to the idea that christians are going to be somewhat offended by the mere existence of these guys, let alone their music and them playing live in a place that is predominately orthodox catholic.
    "What consumes your mind, controls your life" - So, what consumes your mind?

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    i can understand the uproar the band has caused.. it is arguably called "art" but my point after reading the above threads is that everyone is entitled to their own opinion.

    i love Slayer, the music rocks and the vocals are not over the top like this particular band (thats why i cant get into cannibal corpse). but their are some songs that speak of the devil being the almighty etc and I must admit it is a bit of a turn off BUT having said that, it is Slayer and thats who they are. Even though Tom is a Catholic ( i have always wandered his thoughts on singing some of those lyrics being a Catholic )

    murder, war, rape, robbery, husband killing wife, wife killing husband, adultry, suicide etc etc is all reality and exists in this world and always has and always will. Some bands choose to write music about it (like Slayer) because it shocks and it is reality.

    to purposly support this type of behaviour through preaching it and trying to make people believe in it is wrong. Writing music or singing about it is people voicing their opinion and alot of it is record sales as well through shock tactics. supporting satan by a satanist is the same as a christian supporting God. each is entitled to their opinion. i know which side I am on and I feel proud to be a Christian.

    music is music and to me its an art that people express themselves via and if you want to listen to it then do and if you dont, then dont.

    no one should force or tell anyone what is the wrong or the right. "each to their own" is one of my favourite sayings.
    Last edited by livewire80; 05-25-2007 at 02:47 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by livewire80


    no one should force or tell anyone what is the wrong or the right. "each to their own" is one of my favourite sayings.
    Sheesh. If no-one should tell anyone what is right or wrong, why are you telling us we shouldn't tell anyone what is right or wrong? If it's wrong to tell people stuff like then why are you doing it?

    Sanzen, if something is true, it's true regardless of anyone's beliefs. 2+2 does not equal three, no matter how much someone may believe it to be so.

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    What i dont get. Is if you believe in something? Why do you have to re write your scriptures every now and then ???

    I went to a christian schol for a while. And i dont quite get it... Jesus said that god doesnt want worshipping..... So why does everyone go worship jesus every sunday ??? And whats with the massive hateon for satan. He was gods brother and became a fallen angel... why wasnt he forgiven?

    Maybe i just dont get enough but it all seems too contridictory for me :S
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stevo42w
    What i dont get. Is if you believe in something? Why do you have to re write your scriptures every now and then ???
    I don't have to. Whenever one is making a point, it adds credibility to that person if they sight the sourse of their information. It shows that it's not just my personal oppinion. It may, or may not, just be someone elses oppinion, but it's not just stricly mine alone.

    Quote Originally Posted by Stevo42w
    I went to a christian schol for a while. And i dont quite get it... Jesus said that god doesnt want worshipping..... So why does everyone go worship jesus every sunday ??? And whats with the massive hateon for satan. He was gods brother and became a fallen angel... why wasnt he forgiven?

    Maybe i just dont get enough but it all seems too contridictory for me :S
    I've never read that Jesus is not to be worshiped.

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    RD, I was just stating my own opinion and it may of sounded that I was stating what is right or wrong but I didnt intend it to sound like that. i certainly was not "preaching" what is right or wrong.....was just my opinion.

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    woa woa sorry guys i didnt mean it offencively. I am open to peoples beliefes so long as there not pushed on me. Im just curious coz i have never really looked into it myself. Its just what i think from what i know (which is really limited)
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sanzen
    Yes i agree some things are just morally wrong, i wasnt talking about acts though ( Murder,rape, anything like that) i was talking about beliefs. You can believe murder is right and thats fine but once you commit it thats when I have to intervien and say its terribly wrong. Thanks for your cool headed and reasonable discussing and also for not attacking my opinion but just expressing your, i gladly appreciate it.
    You're welcome. And I agree that we can hold differing beliefs on things and still OK with each other. One thing that we have to be careful about, though, is that beliefs can lead to actions. If someone believes that murder is OK, and yet has not acted, there is still a danger there. A more reasonable example is that if I believe that adultry in marriage is OK, then there is a very high likelihood that I will commit it at some point. That pretty much what I was thinking about when I posted.

    My frustration with posting is that it's hard to read faces, so we have to assign our own emotions to the words, and the discussions come in pieces. Sometimes I wish I could just sit down and talk with you folks. I think there are some pretty nice people in here.

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    This may piss some people off. Sorry if it does. But just for something to tick over...

    Has there ever been a war that wasnt involving religion? (Ive always struggled to find one)

    I guess it always will be because its conflict of interests. And i havent had much chance to look into it. But Deep down is it a voice in someones head telling them its ok to start this action?
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    Quote Originally Posted by livewire80
    i can understand the uproar the band has caused.. it is arguably called "art" but my point after reading the above threads is that everyone is entitled to their own opinion.

    i love Slayer, the music rocks and the vocals are not over the top like this particular band (thats why i cant get into cannibal corpse). but their are some songs that speak of the devil being the almighty etc and I must admit it is a bit of a turn off BUT having said that, it is Slayer and thats who they are. Even though Tom is a Catholic ( i have always wandered his thoughts on singing some of those lyrics being a Catholic )

    murder, war, rape, robbery, husband killing wife, wife killing husband, adultry, suicide etc etc is all reality and exists in this world and always has and always will. Some bands choose to write music about it (like Slayer) because it shocks and it is reality.

    to purposly support this type of behaviour through preaching it and trying to make people believe in it is wrong. Writing music or singing about it is people voicing their opinion and alot of it is record sales as well through shock tactics. supporting satan by a satanist is the same as a christian supporting God. each is entitled to their opinion. i know which side I am on and I feel proud to be a Christian.

    music is music and to me its an art that people express themselves via and if you want to listen to it then do and if you dont, then dont.

    no one should force or tell anyone what is the wrong or the right. "each to their own" is one of my favourite sayings.
    There is truth in all that you say here, LW80, and at the same time, I would caution you that there is a powerful link between the words and the music. A common memory device is to learn facts in a sing songy way. It becomes easy to remember. We learn the song, and the words (facts) slide right in.

    If I understand what you are saying, it is that you love the sound of Slayers music, and you tolerate some of there words (correct me if I am wrong). I feel that way about a lot of music too, but I guard my thoughts a little more closely now that I understand how easily words can get in an how easily those words can begin to influence thoughts. I'm still a rocker, but as a Christian too, I choose to listen to Christian rock because it lets me listen to words that support who I am.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stevo42w
    What i dont get. Is if you believe in something? Why do you have to re write your scriptures every now and then ???

    I went to a christian schol for a while. And i dont quite get it... Jesus said that god doesnt want worshipping..... So why does everyone go worship jesus every sunday ??? And whats with the massive hateon for satan. He was gods brother and became a fallen angel... why wasnt he forgiven?

    Maybe i just dont get enough but it all seems too contridictory for me :S
    Stevo, I think I can help on this one. I think, when you say scriptures are rewritten, that you are refering to the various translations of the Bible. If so, the various rewites would be because people are trying to let people read the Bible in words that they can understand. I remember a version of the Bible coming out of the '80's that written in inner city street language. It was extremely raw in the words that it used, but then there were some people that could relate to it. If I was doing ministry in the inner cities among gang members, I would probably want that Bible available.

    As to the worship thing, I think you are refering to the fact that God is not interested in our acts of worship, if our hearts are not really into it. That's just fake worship. I hate to admit it, but it probably happens every single Sunday, in every single church throughout the world. Before I was a pastor, I sat in the pews, and I can safely say that sometimes the problems that we face get our attention, and sometimes when we are in church, we aren't focused on God, but our own problems. Empty worship can result. I don't think God faults us if it happens on an occasional basis, but if we allow it to becaome a regular thing, Jesus was pointing out that it is a bad thing, because then we are just going through the motions of worshiping - the worst kind of hypocracy if we know it and don't change it.

    Finally, Satan's big problem it that there is only one true God, not two. Satan came to believe that he was God's equal, and he might be forgiven if he ever backed down and asked to be forgiven, but don't count on it!

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    pastor bob, it is the music that grabs me more than the lyrics, the lyrics after a while just become like a comic if that makes sense and have no influence on who I am or what I believe.

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    YAY. I love you pastor bob. You just upped my confidence towards christians thanks :>
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    Quote Originally Posted by livewire80
    pastor bob, it is the music that grabs me more than the lyrics, the lyrics after a while just become like a comic if that makes sense and have no influence on who I am or what I believe.
    I am exaxtly the same way, but just remember that brain reasearch has shown that the brain is a powerful recording mechanism. It records EVERYTHING, whether we know it or not, and what we store in our brains will, in time, have an influence. I like to believe that I am about that, but reasearch tends to prove otherwise.

    Be careful is all I'm saying - word to the wise.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stevo42w
    YAY. I love you pastor bob. You just upped my confidence towards christians thanks :>
    Very kind of you to say so, Stevo.

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