Recording and General music industry.

**Stevo42w** · 05-25-2007, 09:07 AM

Hey Just thought i would make this thread because there are a few people who want to know stuff about recording. Writing songs. Maybe want performance tips etc etc etc. I have done a some courses before about sound and the music industry..... I work alot recording with my mate (were working on our own studio) And know quite a bit about ... stuff. So if you want some help with tech let me know.

Also. has anyone else ever doneany music courses besides instrument lessons?

**hellsbells58** · 06-01-2007, 08:02 AM

Nic (Guitarist in my band) is going to do Sound Engineering next year at Newcastle TAFE.

I'm wondering what is the best way to mic and record my drums... I have a 7 Piece Kit at the present moment (2 bass drums [22x18"], Snare[14x4.5"], 4 toms[12x10", 13x11", 14x14", 16x16") and Hi-hat, Crash and Ride Cymbal.

I've had some experience with recording, but the last time didn't go so well. We figure this time we should try to get the best possible sound pre-mixing and the best take possible, before progressing.

What do you recommend?

HB58

**Stevo42w** · 06-01-2007, 09:03 AM

1st thing is. Be warey of tafe gear. our technician knew nothing except what he wanted for his crappy reggae band. And yeah brought dodgy gear.

Were you after a digital mastering or are you going to pre do the affects?

Now we tend to use digital mastering.... So what we do.

Try and close mic evertything and get everything nicely gated and compressed (Not much compression) In the best situation i would have two overheads. One aiming at the center of the snare/Hihat/first left tom and crash. Somewhere in there. Probably more so at the hi hat. The other between your ride and floortom/right tom. Next is to close mic all your toms and snare (both top and bottom) Thats pretty easy. Remember how you position it all helps on the sound so practice moving them around a little. I normally have them pointing down less than a 45degree angle to the head. On the edge.

With your bass drum practice some stuff. There are heaps of positions you can do. The bass mic just inside the sound hole. Or really far in. They you can point it too or away from the beaters. Being aimed at the beater it will be heaps of attack. And more subby being off axis. If you dont have a sound hole. Take your front skin off. Many professional recorders make drummers do this and even on the worst kits it can create a better sound.

With your cymbols. You can capture them with your overheads. Or some new methods is to close mic them with 57's. I would probably recomment doing this from underneith to stop bleed from the other drums. mic both sides of the hi hat.

Thats a basic overview. If you can tell me what you have access too and what style your playing i can be more definative as to what to do, and better ideas for you

**Roaddebris** · 06-01-2007, 09:59 AM

I don't have any formal training, and I've only done sound for live performances but there are a few things that I can pass on. I don't think there's one right way to mic drums, but there are plenty of ways to do it wrong (just like tuning). Experiment with your mics and kit and get the most pleasing sound you can with the limitations of the room. Ballance is very important. You don't want the snare or kick or any element to overpower your overall sound. The sound man has to compensate for the idiosycracies of the drummer (ex. the drummer has a light foot so the bass mic has to be turned up).

Once you think you have the drums dialed in, you have to listen to what they sound like with the rest of the band. You may think you've got the perfect mix until you add keys or accoustic guitar and end up with total mud. Again, you have to be ready to tweak and experiment until the sound is as clear as possible. If the band has a lot of elements like multiple guitars, keys, accoustic guitar, multiple singers, it can be real challenge to get a clear sound. Drop tuning can also yield a muddy sound. Having the stage monitors up too loud can ruin the sound. Also, some rooms just want to boom no matter what you do.

The biggest mistake I see inexperienced bands make is making things too complicated. I wish I had a dollar for every band I've seen with a lead singer, three or four backup singers, accoustic guitar, two electric guitars, bass, drums, an amateur sound guy and some idiot who plays the tambourine like a drunk beating his wife. It alsmost never works. Either the sound is totally muddy, or there's a breakdown in the equipment that brings the gig to a screeching halt.

Here's my tips for less experienced bands who want clear sound:

1) KISS (keep it simple stupid). Have as few people on stage as possible. I'm a big fan of the power trio. Three competent musicians (guitar, bass & drumms) can lay down a wall of sound that a whole army of lesser players can't match.

2) Use the highest quality stage monitors possible. Cheap monitors will spew mud, causing everyone to keep asking the sound guy to turn them up, which leads to no. 3...

3) Keep your stage volume low. If you crank up all the monitors and amps on stage, you'll overpower the house system and sound very muddy. Let the house speakers do their job. Remember, it doesn't matter how good the sound sounds to you on stage, it matters what the sound sounds like in the house.

4) Hire a competent sound guy. Running the sound is just like playing an instrument. It takes musical talent. There are a lot of sound guys out there who know what all the knobs on the board do, but have all the artistic comprehension of a river rock. This does not work.

5) Try to use instruments and set-ups that lend themselves to clear sound. The biggest culprit's for muddy sound are accoustic guitar, piano or keys, bass, kick drum, drop tuned guitars or guitars with too much distortion (crunch, saturation, gain). My personal recommendation for clear sound is a Stratocaster, Telecaster, or SG running clean or with a reasonable amout of distortion, a four string bass, both in standard tuning, a drum kit and one vocal.

Sure there are bands out there that can have ten people on stage with massive amounts of drop-D distortion and a giant double kick kit who get clear sound, but they're most likely pro's. When you're new, keep it simple.

**Stevo42w** · 06-01-2007, 10:07 AM

Originally Posted by Roaddebris

4) Hire a competent sound guy. Running the sound is just like playing an instrument. It takes musical talent. There are a lot of sound guys out there who know what all the knobs on the board do, but have all the artistic comprehension of a river rock. This does not work.

And make sure they have good gear. I have had to go off at many people because they said i did a really really really bad job when really i didnt have the right gear (that they supplied) to do it right. And they didnt doa sound check.

But thats all live. If your recording. Set a metronome through the headphone amp and multitrack it. Remember bleed is bad. It should only pick up what its ment to be recording and close miking is good because then you can digitally put on the affects. IF you grab the raw tracks when your done ill pass them to my friend and he can get them really really schmico on the mastering

**hellsbells58** · 06-01-2007, 07:27 PM

6) Be nice to your sound guy. He's the one that can make you sound absolutely terrible.

I'm not sure we have access to that many mics either. I'll check what we can get our hands on and give you a shout.

Just that for recording this new demo, we want it to be really out there, with good production. Kinda hard to get a great sound for nothing.

HB58

**Stevo42w** · 06-02-2007, 05:59 AM

ty and ill figure out best places for what

Also what size room and do you plan to multitrack it or jam it.... and if you jam it what kind of baffeling do you have access too?

**Braxton** · 06-05-2007, 10:38 AM

Thank you Roaddebris, I hope you don't mind i coppied and pasted your thread so i could print it out. Great points! Thanks again Braxton

**Braxton** · 06-05-2007, 10:40 AM

Originally Posted by hellsbells58

6) Be nice to your sound guy. He's the one that can make you sound absolutely terrible.

I'm not sure we have access to that many mics either. I'll check what we can get our hands on and give you a shout.

Just that for recording this new demo, we want it to be really out there, with good production. Kinda hard to get a great sound for nothing.

HB58

True....so true be nice to the sound guy.....

**mexicancounciloffood** · 06-05-2007, 02:52 PM

**hellsbells58** · 06-05-2007, 08:35 PM

Originally Posted by Stevo42w

Also what size room and do you plan to multitrack it or jam it.... and if you jam it what kind of baffeling do you have access too?

We're planning to multitrack it. The room is a fair size. From memory it's probably 4m long by 3m wide, with fairly high ceilings, probably 9ft.

HB58

**Stevo42w** · 06-06-2007, 07:09 AM

Sounds like the rooms made for recording then (kinda) If your gonna multitrack it. I would close mic it. What MCOF has up there pretty much has the basics. We had something really simular given to us in tech class. Its hard not knowing what mics you have. But if you get one room condenser. out front. Two over head... Use them as your main mix. Then mix in evrything else (Checking the phase on them) To supliment it. (So no levels on anytihng but the condensors then bring levels up to mix it all in)

Then mix them together nicely (I can get more info on that) and it will sound sweet.

Remember since your in a largish room compared to the drum kit. Throw some baffles/defusers around. Try and keep the computer and anything with noise isolated. And make sure you record to a click track

It will sound really really good :>

**hellsbells58** · 06-06-2007, 08:05 PM

Still researching what equipment and mics we have access to. Will hit you up soon.

Also, what are baffles/defusers?

HB58

**Stevo42w** · 06-07-2007, 07:14 AM

Baffles and defusers.......

Baffles the come differently. The ones we had were huge sheets of foam like 1.8M high and 2M long. That were covered in carpet stuff. There not professional ones but they pretty much absorb sound but since they dont perfectly absorb you use them to diffuse on funny angles (Ill make a pic up)

Defusers are those funny tower things you see in studios. Just carpet / foam cylinders standing up. Use to reflect the sound around in many ways as you can.

Pretty much what you want in recording. Is no reverb to create beats and phase cancellation on the recording. There is a perfect room. I forget what its called. But its a few million to make it. So we use absorbers and things to reflect the sound around as many different places as we can. Because when we do that, everytime it reflects it loses energy.

Let me make you a quick paint image :>

**Stevo42w** · 06-07-2007, 07:36 AM

This is a rough idea. You need too look more at the mic's and defusement see where it would be best used. If overheads were used. I guess this would be ok.

One thing we did that was really good was completly baffle around the drum kit.... Then got a heavy blanket and put it over the top of everything. Including mic's. Kinda cubby house. This worked really really well. On a cheap yami kit with basic sabians or zildjians i think. We had good demos.... If i find one ill post that too. or a link. We didnt swear on it.... its the one thing we dont swear in.

(anyways coz it was so baffled so close. Insignificant beats and phase :>)

Phase between mics i never really worried about. Just re align them and its all sweet because there isnt enough distance to get time differences :> (its also why you close mic and make sure there is no bleed :>)

The outer black lines is the room walls for eg......

PS. Watch out for glass and mirrors. Their reflections can add a different dimension to sounds.