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Thread: Tuning Rant: G2s Argh!

  1. #1

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    Angry Tuning Rant: G2s Argh!

    I'm a methodical, patient guy. I figure tuning a drum might take maybe an hour. But not the three hrs. per I've experienced recently tuning my recently purchased and much recommended Evans G2s!

    I've read and watched tuning tips and videos and discovered it's just not that simple. Sometimes you're just lucky! As an artist I've stretched a great many canvases and understand that the principles of tuning are similar: equal tension all around the heads means consistent tone all around and less chance of "growl" and dissonance.

    But none of the methods work for me. It's been hit or miss. Starting with "finger tightening" as the first round of tuning. At least one, sometimes two, tension rods are tighter sooner than any of the others. Grease them and it makes no difference. Sometimes the hoop shifts, making the first of tension rods tighten sooner than the others. (Also the "independent suspension " system of the Sonors won't allow finger tightening of two rods of the 6 on the toms.) I've tried shims, tension rod height measurements and simultaneous, opposite tightening to keep that from happening. I doesn't usually work too well. Maybe a drum dial would keep that from happening?

    Then, two full turns of the drum key are called for, all around, sequentially. Same problem will develop as the hoop bears down on one side first.
    Trying the two full, equal turns for opposite or diagonal tension rods still creates a hoop shift with the tensioning process and unequal tension.
    At this point my tension/tone results are always (for 6 tension rods) around the hoop: hi-lo-hi-lo-hi-lo. Adjusting sequentially= hi-hi-higher-higher-hi-higher as tensioning affects nearby areas.

    So..Finally tuning using opposite tension rods to equalize the tone (and tension) is the recommended next step: more like diagonal tension rods than opposites. Correcting using opposites actually influences the tension of nearby tension rods and driving me crazy with tonal changes. Should I loosen the tension where the tone is higher or tighten where its lower? How will tightening where tone is low effect the pitch?Better or worse than expected? And vice-versa…

    And to defy all logic: Notice how you can change the pitch of a batter by loosening just one tension rod(the old-timer's trick?) That shouldn't happen!

    Is all of this normal?
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  2. #2

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    Default Re: Tuning Rant: G2s Argh!

    Sounds to me like you're taking to big of steps with each tuning. Every time I touch a lug I never turn it more than 1/2 turn at a time, working my way down to 1/4 then 1/8 and even smaller increments as I get closer to my desired tuning.

  3. #3

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    Quote Originally Posted by slinglander View Post
    I'm a methodical, patient guy. I figure tuning a drum might take maybe an hour. But not the three hrs. per I've experienced recently tuning my recently purchased and much recommended Evans G2s!

    I've read and watched tuning tips and videos and discovered it's just not that simple. Sometimes you're just lucky! As an artist I've stretched a great many canvases and understand that the principles of tuning are similar: equal tension all around the heads means consistent tone all around and less chance of "growl" and dissonance.

    But none of the methods work for me. It's been hit or miss. Starting with "finger tightening" as the first round of tuning. At least one, sometimes two, tension rods are tighter sooner than any of the others. Grease them and it makes no difference. Sometimes the hoop shifts, making the first of tension rods tighten sooner than the others. (Also the "independent suspension " system of the Sonors won't allow finger tightening of two rods of the 6 on the toms.) I've tried shims, tension rod height measurements and simultaneous, opposite tightening to keep that from happening. I doesn't usually work too well. Maybe a drum dial would keep that from happening?

    Then, two full turns of the drum key are called for, all around, sequentially. Same problem will develop as the hoop bears down on one side first.
    Trying the two full, equal turns for opposite or diagonal tension rods still creates a hoop shift with the tensioning process and unequal tension.
    At this point my tension/tone results are always (for 6 tension rods) around the hoop: hi-lo-hi-lo-hi-lo. Adjusting sequentially= hi-hi-higher-higher-hi-higher as tensioning affects nearby areas.

    So..Finally tuning using opposite tension rods to equalize the tone (and tension) is the recommended next step: more like diagonal tension rods than opposites. Correcting using opposites actually influences the tension of nearby tension rods and driving me crazy with tonal changes. Should I loosen the tension where the tone is higher or tighten where its lower? How will tightening where tone is low effect the pitch?Better or worse than expected? And vice-versa…

    And to defy all logic: Notice how you can change the pitch of a batter by loosening just one tension rod(the old-timer's trick?) That shouldn't happen!

    Is all of this normal?
    You have to look at tuning just like learning to play the drums. It's not an instant thing. It's a skill thats aquired over time. The more experience, the better you get at it. It's not something your born with, it's something you learn. I'm still learning, and at first it was frustrating, but with time and help I learned and have a method I like to use.

    One thing that really jumped out at me is you making two full turns to each lug. When tuning, you should put the head on, finger SNUG the tenstion rods first. Then make one full turn on each lug using a star pattern. Before you do anything else, tap the head by each lug to listen to the tone. They need to be equal in tone. If they are not, you may experience overtones when playing the drum. So when equaling the tones by each tension rod, make small 1/8th adjustments, not large ones. After that, push down in the middle of your head. This helps seat the head better between the drum bead and the hoop. Check your tones at each tension rod again and adjust if needed. Once your tension rod tones are all equal, then you can go about adjusting the batter and reso to the pitch you want. Up or down make sure you adjust each tension rod equaly. If you adjust the first tension rod a 1/4 turn, then do all tension rods at a 1/4 turn. This helps keep the tone even.

    After that, it's just a matter of how much reso you want in the sound and your pitch. Both the reso and batter contribute to the overal tone and pitch. Not enough reso can make the drum sound dead, to much and it's ringy. It all depends on your ear and what you want.

    To get more experience tuning, make it part of your practice. While warming up, I listen to each drum and can tell when one is alittle off, so I tune or check the tuning for each drum before I start playing every time I practice. It trains your ear to hear the overtones or out of tune drum. I can even catch this with headphones on while playing along with songs. I'm just so tuned into my drum sounds now I actually hear it over the music.

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  4. #4

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    Default Re: Tuning Rant: G2s Argh!

    Quote Originally Posted by Northern Redneck View Post
    Sounds to me like you're taking to big of steps with each tuning. Every time I touch a lug I never turn it more than 1/2 turn at a time, working my way down to 1/4 then 1/8 and even smaller increments as I get closer to my desired tuning.
    Yes, this!!!!

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  5. #5

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    Default Re: Tuning Rant: G2s Argh!

    1. Are you pushing down on the center?
    2. Try 1/4 circle turn increments instead of larger ones
    3. Drumdial for a good reference point, but not entirely necessary
    4. Try using two drumkeys
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  6. #6

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    Default Re: Tuning Rant: G2s Argh!

    I found a few things help immensely. I tune in no time now.
    1. Push down center of head to seat the drum head.
    2. Get all your lugs 'finger tight' (i.e. manually with fingers) all around before you do the very first 1/2 turn with drum key. When you do the first 1/2 turn on some lugs, the other ones (not yet drum-keyed) will loosen again, finger tighten them before doing their own first 1/2 turn with the drum key.
    3. only use a 1/2 turn for the very first turn, then go to 1/4 or 1/8 turns after that.
    5. its way easier with two drum keys, turning opposite lugs
    Evans G2's are nice heads, should sound great (though I switched to remo's) good luck

  7. #7

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    Default Re: Tuning Rant: G2s Argh!

    I guess I condensed a lot in my description. Usually I do try to snug the hoop down, the 1/2 key turns until I total 2 full turns(4 turns at 1/2@) Then I tap around, turning 2 keys 2 at a time 1/4 @ listening for a tone. Once I hear the tone I do opposites(2 keys) 1/4 turn @ until I realize that I've got the alternating hi-lo thing going around the drum. Then, tapping carefully as I can, I try to equal the opposite rods. That leads to 2-3 distinct tones. Then I decide if the over-all pitch/tone is good, which rods to tweak. Often choosing to equal all the lo tones means cranking the hi's down which I don't like to do(when I do I loosen 1/2 turn then tighten a 1/4 turn as Gatzen recommends). So I go with tightening or raising the pitch of the lower ones. As I do that the tension on the surrounding areas goes up! Tapping them suddenly gives me an even higher tone to match. Craziness follows trying to equalize areas that are changing as I tighten other, related rods until I decide any thing else would undo the so-so tonality I have somehow achieved. Could I duplicate it? No.
    Last edited by slinglander; 06-16-2011 at 06:01 PM. Reason: spelling

  8. #8

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    Other possibility is your tom is out-of-round, or hoop is wonky. Much harder if not impossible to tune. Ever measure that? May be revealing.

  9. #9

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    Default Re: Tuning Rant: G2s Argh!

    Quote Originally Posted by slinglander View Post
    I guess I condensed a lot in my description. Usually I do try to snug the hoop down, the 1/2 key turns until I total 2 full turns(4 turns at 1/2@) Then I tap around, turning 2 keys 2 at a time 1/4 @ listening for a tone. Once I hear the tone I do opposites(2 keys) 1/4 turn @ until I realize that I've got the alternating hi-lo thing going around the drum. Then, tapping carefully as I can, I try to equal the opposite rods. That leads to 2-3 distinct tones. Then I decide if the over-all pitch/tone is good, which rods to tweak. Often choosing to equal all the lo tones means cranking the hi's down which I don't like to do(when I do I loosen 1/2 turn then tighten a 1/4 turn as Gatzen recommends). So I go with tightening or raising the pitch of the lower ones. As I do that the tension on the surrounding areas goes up! Tapping them suddenly gives me an even higher tone to match. Craziness follows trying to equalize areas that are changing as I tighten other, related rods until I decide any thing else would undo the so-so tonality I have somehow achieved. Could I duplicate it? No.
    Its because the 1/4 to 1/2 turn is too much, try 1/8 or even less.

  10. #10

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    As I get the point to even out the tones I tap as I turn the key until I hear what I think is a good sound. Sometimes I make 1/8 turns , sometimes 1/4, sometimes I'm not sure I'm making a turn at all, it's so small a key movement. If the rod seems stuck, or already under enough tension compared to others that one I just skip, no matter the tone I get because I realize surrounding areas have an influence on each other- problem might be those and not the tightened rod.

    So I might be in too much of a hurry? Or is there some fundamental step I'm missing?

  11. #11

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    Dont go by the tension on the rod, go by the sound of the head.

  12. #12

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    I think a drumdial is essential. I didn't pay $60 for mine not to use it. I tune my top and bottom head to the same pitch and the sound is great. I also hit the tom with my mallet and not a stick, so I can hear the tom sound clearly.


  13. #13

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    Make sure you really are starting on a level playing field. After you 'finger tighten' the lugs, place a drumstick across the rim and apply gentle, even pressure. While applying pressure, go around the lugs sequentially and finger tighten them again....they should each go in a bit further.

    From there you theoretically have even tension, but I like to use a drum dial to verify. No matter what, HAVE FUN!
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  14. #14

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    Default Re: Tuning Rant: G2s Argh!

    Quote Originally Posted by slinglander View Post
    As I get the point to even out the tones I tap as I turn the key until I hear what I think is a good sound. Sometimes I make 1/8 turns , sometimes 1/4, sometimes I'm not sure I'm making a turn at all, it's so small a key movement. If the rod seems stuck, or already under enough tension compared to others that one I just skip, no matter the tone I get because I realize surrounding areas have an influence on each other- problem might be those and not the tightened rod.

    So I might be in too much of a hurry? Or is there some fundamental step I'm missing?
    Dude, when your equaling your tones on each lug, your just shooting for a even tone across the head. Without the even tone you'll never get what your looking for. Tapping by each lug is just a step towards tuning the head as a whole. after you even it out, then you adjust in equal incraments on each lug until you get the overal tone your looking for. You make these as N.R. said, in 1/4 turns and less. The closer you get to your sound, the smaller the turns on the lugs.

    If your winding up with a total of four turns per lug, to me thats way to tight. I have mine no more than probably 1 and 3/4 turn per lug at the most. But I like a lower tone amd minimal ring.
    Last edited by jafo; 06-16-2011 at 09:11 PM.

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  15. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by dropdtune View Post
    Other possibility is your tom is out-of-round, or hoop is wonky. Much harder if not impossible to tune. Ever measure that? May be revealing.
    +1 on this.

  16. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by Northern Redneck View Post
    Sounds to me like you're taking to big of steps with each tuning. Every time I touch a lug I never turn it more than 1/2 turn at a time, working my way down to 1/4 then 1/8 and even smaller increments as I get closer to my desired tuning.
    +1

    Be patient. If you get frustrated, walk away and try again later. You'll get it. It takes time.

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  17. #17

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    Good afternoon, slinglander...
    I spent years with Ambassadors, and learned tuning with those. A few years ago I tried G2's, and have adopted them ever since. Tuning became much, much easier.
    Your overall method seems correct; perhaps you're being a tad 'finickety'? The idea, after all, is to get a great sound from the drum, not to have any particular tension or whatever. Unless your ears are bionic (could be..!), a microtone difference between lugs is not going to compromise the tuning to any mortal extent.
    There are several videos on Youtube (you've probably watched them too...); one guy uses an 'A' reference tone for the reso, then turns over and sets 'C' for the batter. When he's tuning each lug, he's not going for a scientifically exact pitch, simply close enough to get the drum sounding great. That's how I do it, without 'over-thinking' the job. You can always touch things up the next day, to tweak it a bit. It's not that critical, imho (or perhaps I'm deafer than I thought..!).
    Hope this helps...
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  18. #18

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    I agree with most finger tight then 1/4-1/2 turn for the lowest pitch of the drum.Tap around edges to adjust the same tone at the lugs. This is usualy as much as I give my G2's and they sound great. If you are not happy with this sound then go increments of 1/8- 1/4 till you find the sound you want. Don't forget the reso. I give my reso 1/4 -1/2 turn more. Good luck. I go around with my dial to make sure the lugs are all the same.

  19. #19

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    Were you getting a nice sound with your previous heads before you put the G2 on?

  20. #20

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    I agree with everyone else on this - take your time and you'll get it. I personally don't think a drumdial is necessary (although I admit I wouldn't mind having one) because ultimately you need to tune each drum to your ear, not to a specific PSI. As was said earlier, use small turns until the center of the drum is a tone you find pleasing. After that, start tapping around each lug and use 1/8 turns to ensure that each area of the drum head sounds the same. Voila! You have a nice sounding kit.

    On a similar note, I do feel your pain. I retuned my set last night and it took me about 2 hours - then I spent another hour adjusting my bass and hi-hat pedals. At this point I was already knee deep in drum maintenance I figured, what the hell, might as well polish up the cymbals - +1 hour. Then I moved the kit to a new area of the basement but had to spend a lot of time messing with the position so it felt comfortable but didn't take up too much space - +1 hour. All that time spent and then I finally had about 15 minutes to test out the new setup. It felt lovely
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  21. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dagon2000 View Post
    I agree with everyone else on this - take your time and you'll get it. I personally don't think a drumdial is necessary (although I admit I wouldn't mind having one) because ultimately you need to tune each drum to your ear, not to a specific PSI. As was said earlier, use small turns until the center of the drum is a tone you find pleasing. After that, start tapping around each lug and use 1/8 turns to ensure that each area of the drum head sounds the same. Voila! You have a nice sounding kit.

    On a similar note, I do feel your pain. I retuned my set last night and it took me about 2 hours - then I spent another hour adjusting my bass and hi-hat pedals. At this point I was already knee deep in drum maintenance I figured, what the hell, might as well polish up the cymbals - +1 hour. Then I moved the kit to a new area of the basement but had to spend a lot of time messing with the position so it felt comfortable but didn't take up too much space - +1 hour. All that time spent and then I finally had about 15 minutes to test out the new setup. It felt lovely
    Drums are fun! I retuned my kick last night. Very quickly. Brought it up just a bit higher.

  22. #22

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    Quote Originally Posted by marko138 View Post
    Drums are fun! I retuned my kick last night. Very quickly. Brought it up just a bit higher.
    Drums are fun, it's true. I'm sure most everyone on this forum is like me in that once I get going, be it jamming or just performing maintenance, I kinda get lost in it and just keep going. Before I know it, the wife is downstairs hollering at me for disappearing for XX hours. Eh, it's worth it
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  23. #23

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dagon2000 View Post
    Drums are fun, it's true. I'm sure most everyone on this forum is like me in that once I get going, be it jamming or just performing maintenance, I kinda get lost in it and just keep going. Before I know it, the wife is downstairs hollering at me for disappearing for XX hours. Eh, it's worth it
    Yep. Happens to me often!

  24. #24

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    Everybody, thanks!
    Wow, this is amazing new info for me. I thought you got rid of the ringing by perfectly tuning/tapping at each lug. Maybe I am being a bit finicky! I did try the cross pattern system last night and I'll be d*$# it works!
    But 1-2 complete turns and you're tuned, Pearl MCX Man? That would only keep my hoop from falling off! Also Sonors come with a finer thread on the tension rods, so more turns than normal. All three G2s kept a persistant wrinkle until about 4 full turns. Also I do enjoy double stroke rolls on toms so I need a bit more tension.

    And did I like the sound I had before, Marko138? Yes, until the stock clear Remos wore out. They were supposedly Ambassador types, according to the Sonor site, but felt as thick as the G1+ I tried last month. And since just about everybody here raves about G2s I thought I'd give them a try.

    I did adjust the stock Remo Ambassador resos and, you know, I feel like reversing the tom heads and putting the heavier G2s on the bottom! Heresy? Wouldn't that cut the sustain way down? I'm just thinking about it...

  25. #25

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    Quote Originally Posted by slinglander View Post
    Everybody, thanks!
    Wow, this is amazing new info for me. I thought you got rid of the ringing by perfectly tuning/tapping at each lug. Maybe I am being a bit finicky! I did try the cross pattern system last night and I'll be d*$# it works!
    But 1-2 complete turns and you're tuned, Pearl MCX Man? That would only keep my hoop from falling off! Also Sonors come with a finer thread on the tension rods, so more turns than normal. All three G2s kept a persistant wrinkle until about 4 full turns. Also I do enjoy double stroke rolls on toms so I need a bit more tension.

    And did I like the sound I had before, Marko138? Yes, until the stock clear Remos wore out. They were supposedly Ambassador types, according to the Sonor site, but felt as thick as the G1+ I tried last month. And since just about everybody here raves about G2s I thought I'd give them a try.

    I did adjust the stock Remo Ambassador resos and, you know, I feel like reversing the tom heads and putting the heavier G2s on the bottom! Heresy? Wouldn't that cut the sustain way down? I'm just thinking about it...
    You can certainly switch the batter and reso but expect to replace your batter side (reso head) quickly as they are not designed to withstand constant direct attack. One thing I disagree with some individuals about is the claim that X amount of turns = tuned. Every drum - every tom, every snare, every kick - is different from the next. Take two 13x10 toms and I assure you that you aren't going to turn each lug on each drum the same amount to get the same tuning. Lugs are different, hoops are different, bearing edges are different. That being said, it is pretty much universal that small turns and repeated testing of the sound are going to guarantee you the best sound. If you're working on an 8-lug, you may turn 3 of the lugs 2 times, 3 of the lugs 1 1/2 times and 2 of the lugs 3 times. You may turn each lug a different amount. There's nothing wrong with that and you shouldn't have it in your head not to exceed "x" amount of turns when tuning. Just turn the lugs until you get the sound you want.
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