Fitting Different Amounts Of Hits In A Beat

[Aviator42009]

While going through "The Table Of Time" in Joe Morello's "Master Studies" I've been getting stuck with getting 9, and 11 hits into one measure.

The page says for 9 to count it as 1+a2+a3+a and for 11 to count 1+2+3+4+5+6. It also tells you to start at about 53BPM, and since I couldn't get those two right i tried slowing them down, and building them up, I got them into the mid 40s, but when I played at normal speed I just couldn't get them to feel/sound right.

Any tips on playing these?

[rickthedrummer]

While going through "The Table Of Time" in Joe Morello's "Master Studies" I've been getting stuck with getting 9, and 11 hits into one measure.

The page says for 9 to count it as 1+a2+a3+a and for 11 to count 1+2+3+4+5+6. It also tells you to start at about 53BPM, and since I couldn't get those two right i tried slowing them down, and building them up, I got them into the mid 40s, but when I played at normal speed I just couldn't get them to feel/sound right.

Any tips on playing these?

I don't mean for this to sound sarcastic, (but it will). PRACTICE

Once you get past the basics and start getting into more complex time signatures, it almost feels like you are starting all over.

When I started getting into different times, which, for me, was Morello's "Take 5". I found I got it faster by playing along with the record.

Just a thought.

[isaacvining]

Weird groupings of notes is never easy. The first time I ever had to play a 5-let or a 7-let back in the drumline days, it blew my freaking mind. Sadly, there isn't really any other way around it. You are doing what you need to do. Practice. If you can't do it at the suggested tempo, slow it down even more. The more you do it, the better it will get.

That is one idea that has really hit me hard lately. I was messing around playing double bass and realized how slow I was at it. Even though I don't play a style of music that includes fast double bass, I wanted to get faster just for fun. The more I just played it, even at slower tempos, the more I was able to crank out higher speeds. I'm still very slow compared to a lot of you guys, but I'm getting better the more I do it!

[Russ]

Perhaps it would be a good idea to practice the 9 and 11 stroke roll. Get them to a high enough speed and you'll understand and have the skills to get that many strokes into a measure, and from there you can just concentrate on the arrangement in the Master Studies. Should be smooth sailing from there.

[Drumbledore]

I don't mean for this to sound sarcastic, (but it will). PRACTICE

Once you get past the basics and start getting into more complex time signatures, it almost feels like you are starting all over.

When I started getting into different times, which, for me, was Morello's "Take 5". I found I got it faster by playing along with the record.

Just a thought.

Yeah, "Take 5" was my introduction to odd-meters too. As a teen drummer, I thought I'd never really would have a need for it (funny thing was, it was Mum playing it to me on piano that got me into it). And then all of a sudden, a couple of decades down the track, when I was auditioning for a jazz band, the guys looked at me and said...."Right, 'Take 5'....can you do that?" "Are you kidding me? Let's do it!" I told them, lol. Where I'm kind of lucky is that growing up, I had the rock band thing, blues and punk on one hand....and on the other hand, classical, jazz, Latin and ethnic music such as Armenian, Indian, Greek, Italian, Maltese, Balkan and Lebanese on the other hand was being played at home and all around me (yeah, my family's a bit mixed and so was my neighbourhood). Really, what I learned over time is that guys like a friend of mine who plays Greek weddings talk about feeling 'the hump' in the music when playing odds....break it down into groups of twos and threes, especially if you use a sticking of R-L for the two's and R-L-L for the threes, doubling the R's with your right foot. But that's but just one way to approach it I'd say.

[AndyC]

When you say fitting notes in a measure, I'm assuming you're talking about a bar not a beat? If so
Think of the nine as triplets in 3/4, so "1,an,er,2,an,er,3,an,er,1,an,er,2,an,er,3,an,er," is right and probably the easiest way to think of this and realistically the way you're most likely to see it in the real world

Once you can get that, the easiest way to think of eleven is probably to do the above, and put an extra "4 an" at the end. so, 1,an,er,2 an,er,3,an,er,4,an,1,an,er,2 an,er,3,an,er,4,an,. Alternatively breakit down into 2 4's and a 3.
"1,e,an,er,2,e,an,er,3,e,an,1,e,an,er,2,e,an,er,3,e,an".........

Or actually, try both, if you ever have to play it, the music will dictate where the beat feels like it divides. for instance, "take5" is 3 then 2. (1a, a3 ,1,2,) but another composition might be the other way round.
Re timings try setting your metronome for whatever the subdivisions are. so at first, instead of having it at 40 bpm, have it clicking on every beat of the triplet, ie, 120 bpm. for the 11 either keep it at 120 for the 3+3+3+2 or 160 for the 4+4+3.

Andy

[jafo]

OK, something new to me.....

Any songs out there I can listen to to give me an example of this type of time sig.?

[slinglander]

Simplest song with 2 time changes I can think of Zepplins' "4 Sticks" basically 5/4 to break of 3/4 and back to 5/4...I think. I think Hendrix "manic depression" in 3/4 time has breaks you can do as 6/8.

[rickthedrummer]

When you say fitting notes in a measure, I'm assuming you're talking about a bar not a beat? If so
Think of the nine as triplets in 3/4, so "1,an,er,2,an,er,3,an,er,1,an,er,2,an,er,3,an,er," is right and probably the easiest way to think of this and realistically the way you're most likely to see it in the real world

Once you can get that, the easiest way to think of eleven is probably to do the above, and put an extra "4 an" at the end. so, 1,an,er,2 an,er,3,an,er,4,an,1,an,er,2 an,er,3,an,er,4,an,. Alternatively breakit down into 2 4's and a 3.
"1,e,an,er,2,e,an,er,3,e,an,1,e,an,er,2,e,an,er,3,e,an".........

Or actually, try both, if you ever have to play it, the music will dictate where the beat feels like it divides. for instance, "take5" is 3 then 2. (1a, a3 ,1,2,) but another composition might be the other way round.
Re timings try setting your metronome for whatever the subdivisions are. so at first, instead of having it at 40 bpm, have it clicking on every beat of the triplet, ie, 120 bpm. for the 11 either keep it at 120 for the 3+3+3+2 or 160 for the 4+4+3.

Andy

Andy,

Between you and Arron, I don't know who makes me more nuts with this stuff. Now I have to get the slide rule out again.