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Thread: Tuning to the Shell Timbre (DWs John Good)

  1. #26

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    Default Re: Tuning to the Shell Tambor (DWs John Good)

    I've got some questions related to high end vs low end kits. How about live, unmic'd play. Won't a high end kit cut through the mix and project better than a low end kit? Won't the high end maple kit project a nice deep bottom end if desired, where the low end kit is going to sound dead in comparison when played live with no mic support? Won't a high end kit when tuned hold that tune and not detune as quickly as a low end kit?

  2. #27

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    Default Re: Tuning to the Shell Tambor (DWs John Good)

    Good morning, AreFish...
    To be taken for what it's worth; just my humble experience and opinion...
    Bad drums are bad drums. If the hardware is not able to maintain the kit over time (set-up, tear-down, playing, transport...) then the sound will suffer. The hi-end kits should also have high-end hardware.
    The subject was not, initially, to do so much with the cost of the kit, but its material. The difference between maple, oak, birch, stainless steel (used to be popular...), acrylic etc. is, imho, of much less importance than the tuning. All things being equal (that's to say: acoustic, no mics, same room etc...), one can get a damn fine sound out of all of these by tuning. There will be some extremes where one or other will be able to perform better, and will show up its natural characteristics, but these would not be considered a 'normal' drum sound in any case. In most cases, and for most usage, one can make any of these kits sound damned good, and very few could tell 'blind' what the material of the kit was, acoustically.
    Just anecdotal, but I offer it anyway... A few years ago there was some attention given to a luthier creator of an aluminium violin. This was met with considerable scepticism, but the BBC organised a 'blind test' with, amongst others, a top-end Stradivarius. The panel of experts and critics, blind, could not pick out the Strad nor the ali fiddle; most 'preferred' the metal instrument whilst they were unaware of its composition. Not proof, of course; just sayin'.
    A kit that costs more should have many advantage over a low-end kit; the potential for sounding good should not be one of them. What is considered low-end today was top quality when I was a lad. Vintage drums (I have a set...) did not have the advantage of modern evolutions (10-lug snares come to mind...). This did not prevent having, and maintaining, excellent phonic qualities. Some of the 'vintage' vibe is hype, but old kits, whatever their construction, can and do sound great, and are hunted for that reason. Their hardware, or condition, is another story (I would no longer want to tour with a vintage 'Premier' kit, for reliability reasons, but I can get it to 'sing', whatever its shell, with correct tuning...).
    Others have better ears than myself, I will allow (especially now, 40 years on...).
    Just my tuppence worth...
    Have a nice day.
    Dad3353 (Douglas...)

  3. #28

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    Default Re: Tuning to the Shell Tambor (DWs John Good)

    Quote Originally Posted by areFish View Post
    I've got some questions related to high end vs low end kits. How about live, unmic'd play. Won't a high end kit cut through the mix and project better than a low end kit? Won't the high end maple kit project a nice deep bottom end if desired, where the low end kit is going to sound dead in comparison when played live with no mic support? Won't a high end kit when tuned hold that tune and not detune as quickly as a low end kit?
    Which high and low end kits are you comparing? Low end kits can be as loud or louder than a high end kit, depending on the way it's designed. If you take a high end thin shell and a low end thick shell, you're going to get more volume out of the low end kit, but the resonance will go down and vice versa. There's a number of things that can cause a kit to detune quickly such as rim type, head type, bad rods or lugs. With good heads, cast rims, and good condition lugs and tension rods you won't have to worry about fast detunings. If you do not have all or some of these things, you might consider investing in lug locks or tightscrews.
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  4. #29

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    Default Re: Tuning to the Shell Tambor (DWs John Good)

    Dad3353 & Russ, thanks your for your well thought out reply on this. Lots of food for thought here.

    Russ I think lug locks are in order for my SCB kit. There isn't a think wrong with this kit as it is in pristine condition. Hardware seems adequate and the heads are good. It just won't stay tuned. I feel like the kick and toms could project more too, but maybe that's just in my head.

  5. #30

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    Default Re: Tuning to the Shell Tambor (DWs John Good)

    AreFish...

    'Tightscrews' fixed for good the loosening of the lugs, mostly where I rimshot the snare, to such a point that I've fitted them to the whole kit. No more worries of leaving a couple of neglected floor tom screws on a podium that have dropped out during the show..!
    Recommended (by me, at least...)
    (No, they don't pay me to say that; I wish they would..!)
    Have a nice day.
    Dad3353 (Douglas...)

  6. #31

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    Just went to the their web site. Thanks for the info Dad3353!

  7. #32

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dad3353 View Post
    AreFish...

    No more worries of leaving a couple of neglected floor tom screws on a podium that have dropped out during the show..!
    Good point. That is so annoying.
    Signature here

  8. #33

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    Default Re: Tuning to the Shell Tambor (DWs John Good)

    Excellent points here ! I am aghast at how drummers & Latin percussionist are so oblivious to tuning concerns. The purpose of a drum shell is to act as a resonator and as a frame to attach the drum head & hard wares. To optimize the voice of a drum, be it a double headed or single headed drum, is to assess the natural character of the drum shell & apply a properly selected head & tune it evenly while maximizing the resonant qualities as a whole. Other wise you may as well use garbage containers w/ heads mounted or just use paint buckets !

  9. #34

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    Default Re: Tuning to the Shell Tambor (DWs John Good)

    Here is a more comprehensive video DW published.


  10. #35

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    Quote Originally Posted by areFish View Post
    Here is a more comprehensive video DW published.
    Thanks for posting this video Arefish. I found both of them very interesting.
    "it is what it is"

    "Dont rent anything you cant afford to burn in the backyard while drunk." - ThePloughman

  11. #36

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    Default Re: Tuning to the Shell Tambor (DWs John Good)

    Quote Originally Posted by areFish View Post
    He demonstrates tuning to the tambor of the shell.
    The spelling is timbre, which he is misusing the word, he was looking for a synonym of pitch.

    From a quick google search for the definition:

    Timbre describes all of the aspects of a musical sound that do not have anything to do with the sound's pitch, loudness, or length.


    I'll shut up now


    Tan

  12. #37

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    Default Sweet tuning video

    I think this is better than bob gatzen's tuning videos. I have had my DW's for years, and never really understood how to tune to the pitch in the drum. John Good thank you.
    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yl9wgXSfxew"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yl9wgXSfxew[/ame]
    "The chances of being attacked and killed by a terrorist are less than the chances of being attacked and killed by your own heart"
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  13. #38

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    This is one of the best tuning videos I've seen. Dont agree with everything he says, but it definitely shows you how to do it.

  14. #39

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    I watched this the other day, I loved watching it. It would definitely help some people who have no clue how to go about tuning. I liked everything but the kick drum tuning. I use no pillow. I love hearing thunder when I play...not thudder.

  15. #40

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    I also followed the stuff to watch afterwards, and found an awesome video of Dave Grohl drumming on DW drums.

  16. #41

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kazaamski View Post
    I think this is better than bob gatzen's tuning videos. I have had my DW's for years, and never really understood how to tune to the pitch in the drum. John Good thank you.
    I agree with you 110% Kazaamski!!!

    I've learned a lot from Gatzen as well, but this vid really made everything that I already knew about tuning come together. My kit has never sounded better.

    AreFish actually started a post back in July where he found two vids. This is where I saw it first. Thanks again AreFish. http://www.drumchat.com/showthread.p...0.html?t=21860
    Last edited by DrummerD; 12-02-2011 at 06:42 PM.
    "it is what it is"

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  17. #42

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    Lol july 15. The one weekend i was out of town and not checking drumchat. We should sticky arefish's thread. Its way easier to watch that video than ezplain the tap method.
    "The chances of being attacked and killed by a terrorist are less than the chances of being attacked and killed by your own heart"
    Carrying the message to Garcia. Today and everyday.
    Temple Beth Snare Buzz-Head Rabbi

  18. #43

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    I want that job at DW.

  19. #44

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kazaamski View Post
    Lol july 15. The one weekend i was out of town and not checking drumchat. We should sticky arefish's thread. Its way easier to watch that video than ezplain the tap method.
    What...you went a weekend without checking DC!!! LOL

    Hey, it's good that you posted it again for those who may have missed it too. Definitely a good one to sticky.
    "it is what it is"

    "Dont rent anything you cant afford to burn in the backyard while drunk." - ThePloughman

  20. #45

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    Default Re: Sweet tuning video

    Kaz and areFish, I would be happy to merger your 2 threads and then sticky it, if you both would be OK with that.
    Quoting gonefishin: Just have some bacon with ya when you go pick her up..........youre an instant chick magnet.





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  21. #46

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    this goes for all brands and types of drums right?
    Tomas!

  22. #47

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    Works for me PB
    "The chances of being attacked and killed by a terrorist are less than the chances of being attacked and killed by your own heart"
    Carrying the message to Garcia. Today and everyday.
    Temple Beth Snare Buzz-Head Rabbi

  23. #48

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    I'll send a PM to areFish
    Quoting gonefishin: Just have some bacon with ya when you go pick her up..........youre an instant chick magnet.





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  24. #49

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    Quote Originally Posted by drummerboy123 View Post
    this goes for all brands and types of drums right?
    Yes. But in regards to tuning to the shell, that's not really all that important. If you read through AreFish's thread, there's some debate on how much that affects the tuning. I have to agree with rickthedrummer, and Bish, in that the pitch matching is really more of a marketing gimmick than anything else. But More importantly, this video is one of the best demonstrations of tap tuning method I have ever seen.
    "The chances of being attacked and killed by a terrorist are less than the chances of being attacked and killed by your own heart"
    Carrying the message to Garcia. Today and everyday.
    Temple Beth Snare Buzz-Head Rabbi

  25. #50

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    Thank you for the shout-out DrummerD! Merge OK with me too.

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