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Thread: Tuning to the Shell Timbre (DWs John Good)

  1. #51

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    Default Re: Sweet tuning video

    Quote Originally Posted by drummerboy123 View Post
    this goes for all brands and types of drums right?
    This is the method I use on my Pearl and Rogers kit.
    "it is what it is"

    "Dont rent anything you cant afford to burn in the backyard while drunk." - ThePloughman

  2. #52

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    Default Re: Tuning to the Shell Tambor (DWs John Good)

    Consider it merged and stickied folks.
    Quoting gonefishin: Just have some bacon with ya when you go pick her up..........youre an instant chick magnet.





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  3. #53

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    Default Re: Tuning to the Shell Tambor (DWs John Good)

    Thanks
    "The chances of being attacked and killed by a terrorist are less than the chances of being attacked and killed by your own heart"
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  4. #54

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    Default Re: Tuning to the Shell Timbre (DWs John Good)

    I have to believe that tuning the heads to certain areas will get the best tone out of a given shell. I'm sure that around the pitch of the drum is one of those points, but I wonder what other tunings could get the drums to sing.

    The only two constants I have are DW and Zildjian.

  5. #55
    doctor dirt Guest

    Default Re: Tuning to the Shell Timbre (DWs John Good)

    I've been tuning my drums to "themselves" for years and have explained to others for years but it seems to fall on "deaf" ears!!! It makes perfect sense to tune the cylinders to their own characteristics yet not many follow this very simple task yet want to know the best to tune a drum???
    Tune it to itself!!! Learn and Listen! Doc.

  6. #56

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    Default Re: Tuning to the Shell Timbre (DWs John Good)

    Sometimes it is hard to understand the drum language when tuning I for one know that and I still haven't a clue what they mean tuning it to the drum or themselves. I just tune to the sound I like that the drum makes so I am not sure where that goes under in the drum terms. I hear DW have a note stamped inside the shell for easy tuning but that is ok if you know how to attain that tune. Anyway that is just me and I am sure there are drummers out there who feel the same as me towards tuning.

  7. #57
    doctor dirt Guest

    Default Re: Tuning to the Shell Timbre (DWs John Good)

    Tuning to itself simply is knocking on the middle of the exterior of the shell and duplicating that timbre sound (note) tune the reso head first then continue to the batter. Your gonna have to knock on it a few times to get that sound in your mind. Thats tuning to the sound that the shell omits. The heads tone should vary if your using a thinner reso like most do, once you've duplicated the note of the shell then you can fine tune to your tastes.
    If people did this as part of their buying approach they'd wind up with far less drum sets as the years go by. Theres some who love to change up their kits (I'm guilty) but you will have less kits if your drums naturally omit what you like even before tuning. Your pretty much assured of nice round tones void of notes dropping as they decay. I'm very particular about my drum sound and I doi spend alot of time on them especially if I'm not that actively playing. Another quick hint is the put some pressure on the heads as your setting up the kit. Give a few squeezes to move some air and prepare the head for percussion hits. Doc

  8. #58

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    Default Re: Tuning to the Shell Timbre (DWs John Good)

    One question Doc do you have a pillow or cushion under neat the reso head when you are tuning the batter. Same when you hit the side of the drum to hear the shell sound is it on a cushion too just wondering.

  9. #59

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    Default Re: Tuning to the Shell Timbre (DWs John Good)

    When a drum starts to sing and resonate and produce a nice full tone and sustain, that IS the "note" of the shell. So if one really knows how to tune a drum there is no point in FIRST finding the "note" of the shell. Use your ear to listen to the drum. The drum will "tell" you if it is tuned "properly." Smaller drums, like an 8", can be a little more fussy. There is only a small window at which a drum will produce it's optimum sound. There is a little room to make slight changes but not a lot.
    TAMA- '2018 Star Walnut, ‘99 Starclassic Performer, '89 Granstar, ‘93 Rockstar
    Gretsch- 1963 Round Badge
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    Vic Firth
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    Snare Drums- various TAMA, Gretsch, Ludwig, Leedy
    Mic's- Sennheiser, Shure, AKG

  10. #60

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    Default Re: Tuning to the Shell Timbre (DWs John Good)

    every new drummer from my town that asks me about how to tune a drum, i give the same anwser .... forget everything that you learned on the internet , take both heads off of your drum, and put it back together and then make the drum sound how you want it to sound , learn what happens when you turn your key... teach yourself how to tune , its a very important part of drumming .... I.M.O. teachers should teach how to tune before they teach students how to play .. i've never taken any other types of music lessons, but id bet that guitar teachers teach how to tune a guitar, when i was younger my buddy was a trumpet student and had to tune his horn with a strob-o-tuner before each lesson . tuning is a very important part of any musical instr. and really, its not that hard , as drummers we are pretty lucky that we dont have to deal with playing in the right key. we just have to learn how to make our drums sound good ..... theres no magic, or secret ways of doing it , it just takes some time and practice..
    Tamaholic

  11. #61

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    Default Re: Tuning to the Shell Timbre (DWs John Good)

    Quote Originally Posted by atomcorr2 View Post
    every new drummer from my town that asks me about how to tune a drum, i give the same anwser .... forget everything that you learned on the internet... we just have to learn how to make our drums sound good ..... theres no magic, or secret ways of doing it , it just takes some time and practice..
    This
    TAMA- '2018 Star Walnut, ‘99 Starclassic Performer, '89 Granstar, ‘93 Rockstar
    Gretsch- 1963 Round Badge
    Zildjian
    Remo
    Vic Firth
    Speed Cobra Double Pedal Blackout Edition
    Speed Cobra Hi Hat
    Hardware- TAMA Roadpro
    Snare Drums- various TAMA, Gretsch, Ludwig, Leedy
    Mic's- Sennheiser, Shure, AKG

  12. #62

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    Default Re: Tuning to the Shell Timbre (DWs John Good)

    Quote Originally Posted by atomcorr2 View Post
    every new drummer from my town that asks me about how to tune a drum, i give the same anwser .... forget everything that you learned on the internet , take both heads off of your drum, and put it back together and then make the drum sound how you want it to sound , learn what happens when you turn your key... teach yourself how to tune , its a very important part of drumming .... I.M.O. teachers should teach how to tune before they teach students how to play .. i've never taken any other types of music lessons, but id bet that guitar teachers teach how to tune a guitar, when i was younger my buddy was a trumpet student and had to tune his horn with a strob-o-tuner before each lesson . tuning is a very important part of any musical instr. and really, its not that hard , as drummers we are pretty lucky that we dont have to deal with playing in the right key. we just have to learn how to make our drums sound good ..... theres no magic, or secret ways of doing it , it just takes some time and practice..
    Well said.

  13. #63

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    Default Re: Tuning to the Shell Timbre (DWs John Good)

    RickTD, I totally agree that the biggest range of control is provided through tuning and heads. However...if you put all that tuning effort into the various high end shell options, both wood type, ply orientation, wood combos, not to mention dimensions, I think you can find vastly different and interesting properties / results in sound.
    Yes, you can mask these differences via tuning and heads, (even sticks) or you can combine the different shells WITH tuning and heads to get very different, focused and distinguishable sounds otherwise not available to any one shell type.
    Acoustic drums are an amorphous and complex system. The variables are truly limitless. To explore the possibilities, please employ all of the above.

  14. #64

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    Default Re: Tuning to the Shell Timbre (DWs John Good)

    I agree with you accoustic drums 'are armourous and complex system" Those that own E-kits are spoiled cause the sound are there at a turn of a button. Us drummers have to work hard to get the tone or sound out of a drum. we have to chose the right heads ,hoops and shell to attain that. I am not familliar with the tone etc. when I tune my drums it has always been finger tight then 1/2 turn and tap around edges to make sure the tension is the same and then when I do the reso I give a 1/4 turn more than the batter and this as always worked well for me. Most people love the sound of my drums so I guess I must be doing something right.

  15. #65

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    Default Re: Tuning to the Shell Timbre (DWs John Good)

    Who cares what note a shell is tuned to? Unless you intend to suspend them and play them like xylophones. I don't play the shells. I play the drums. As has already been said more than once, it's more about tuning than anything else.

    I can tell the difference between a metal snare drum and a wood one but that is about it. And I've been around drums for 40+ years. I'm floored by these 1 and 2 year drummers that claim to be able to pick out the sounds of the different woods and must seek out these high end exotic wood sets. I think most of the business of wood type is hype. The drum makers are so desparate in an increasingly competetive market, that they will come up with anything to get a leg up.

    Common sense tells me to take cues from other instruments. Maple and mahogony are the most used "music" woods period! Then to some extent spruce and others as in the case of violins and some acoustic guitars. I have never heard of Steinway making a piano out of oak or poplar or bubinga or bamboo or anything else like that. As a matter of fact, They jump through great hoops to secure large pieces of maple (older growth trees) for their products. I wonder why that is.

    all the best...
    Last edited by kay-gee; 03-03-2012 at 03:57 PM.

  16. #66
    doctor dirt Guest

    Default Re: Tuning to the Shell Timbre (DWs John Good)

    Without all the woods there wouldn't be a drum "market" to choose from!!! Thats why all the varieties are needed.
    Hey kay-gee was that African mahogany or Phillipine mahogany?? Are they the same?? Do they sound the same??
    As far as quality drums go if anyone here can make a Percussion Plus sound like my Premier Signias just by using heads and their tuning ability I want to see and hear that. When ply wood made of cat **** sounds like North American Maple I just might buy one of those "pad sets" you know the electronic "drum" kits. Hell who needs wood shells when pads will do, right?


    WRONG!!! Doc.

  17. #67

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    Default Re: Tuning to the Shell Timbre (DWs John Good)

    Hey kay-gee was that African mahogany or Phillipine mahogany?? Are they the same?? Do they sound the same??
    Don't know for sure but upper level guitar makers like Gibson, Martin, Taylor etc... use lots of mahogony which I think they source from different regions from Brazil to Africa. (back and sides and necks) Maple almost exclusively for tops. I'm sure that Phillipine Mahogony is used in lower end instruments. It's a different animal. It grows much faster.

    all the best...

  18. #68

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    Default Re: Tuning to the Shell Timbre (DWs John Good)

    I heard that the African Mohagony is used in the pro level drum kits and the Phillipine is for cheaper kits. I might be wrong.

  19. #69
    doctor dirt Guest

    Default Re: Tuning to the Shell Timbre (DWs John Good)

    You might be right!! and you Are!!!!!! Its also known as Luan, Maretta etc. and theres about 5 varieties of this mahogany that actually works very well depending on how good the manufactures processes are. All the vintage Ludwig followers would be shocked if they knew just how much Poplar was really in the old shells. African mahogany is one of the finest woods for musical instruments and when used for a drum shell the richness and round notes produced are the best in my opinion. The Pearl companies MHX kits to me are the best for gaining a full tone and tremendous low end without having to tune low. There are alot of so called "fillers" used making drum shells but not all actually just fill in some plies some work very nicely with the "main" ingrediant to produce some great sound. Gum Tree comes to mind!!
    Doc.

  20. #70

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    Default Re: Tuning to the Shell Timbre (DWs John Good)

    Quote Originally Posted by Pearl MCX Man View Post
    I heard that the African Mohagony is used in the pro level drum kits and the Phillipine is for cheaper kits. I might be wrong.
    That's accurate. African mahogany is the good stuff for all your low frequency needs in a drum. It absolutely kills the world if you put even a single ply of it in a bass drum or floor tom, the dry lows are just phenominal. Lauan or "Phillippine mahogany" really has no similarities to African, it uses a different grain and also has more high end. Similar attack though. One interesting thing about it is this wood was almost the standard in drum woods for decades, until maple grew in popularity and birch followed close behind. The three of them represent different sonic families now and are collectively the woods of choice for kitbuilders everywhere.
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  21. #71

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    Default Re: Tuning to the Shell Timbre (DWs John Good)

    I heard with the DW shells the pitch they stamp on the shell doesn't take into account all the hardware they whack on the drum and then obviously the heads you choose would effect the optimum range for tuning as well?

  22. #72

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    Default Re: Tuning to the Shell Timbre (DWs John Good)

    Why would it? They are identifying each shell's sound only, using a musical note as a marker. What the customer decides to add to that is an additional modification of their own choice, but if they understand what pitch the shell itself is it can help them decide what type of heads and tuning to use.
    ZildjianLeague/LP/Aquarian/Mapex/Pearl
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pearl MCX Man View Post
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    Quote Originally Posted by amdrummer View Post
    if double bass is cheating then so is using two sticks

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  23. #73

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    Default Re: Tuning to the Shell Tambor (DWs John Good)

    Quote Originally Posted by rickthedrummer View Post
    Maybe it was the easiest, but, was it impossible to get the same "ring" from the other sets?

    I'm a Ludwig guy, but over the years, I've owned Rogers and Slingerland drums.

    Rogers and Slingerland had more overtones, so it took a little more muffling to get the sound I wanted.

    This is not said to argue with you, but after so many years playing, my personal opinion is that all this stuff about this wood or that wood, is pure business hype.

    I sold the other sets I had when I retired, and kept my Ludwigs which were bought in 1972, and are made of mahagony. I've added several drums to my set. 2 are acrylic toms, 1 is a Accent, and the last 1 is like a Vistalite, plus a totally no-name 16x16 that I picked up for $40 or $50 brand new. With a little tuning, I can blend the whole thing together to get a evenly spaced sound going around the set.

    I think people hear what they want to hear, and if 1 of their favorite drummers uses X drums with X heads on them, that's the stuff they want.

    The same thing happened when some "experts"said that if a tom was mounted on the BD, it hurt the sound somehow. They came out with the isolation rims or whatever they called them, or were mounted on racks or separate stands, and every body swore they could hear the difference.

    Some guy on u-tube conducted a little experiment about a year ago, with toms mounted to the bass drums, toms mounted with the isolation mounts (I think that's they are called), toms mounted on racks, and toms mounted on different stands, and surprise, when the "experts" couldn't see them, they couldn't tell.

    As for Gatzen's tuning stuff, to be honest, I don't think he could tune a radio. I think a lot of these pitchmen live by the old saying that " If you can't dazzle them with brilliance, baffle them with BS".

    I've heard, in my travels, sets of Ludwigs, Tama's, Mapex, whatever, that sounded like crap, and I knew a guy casually (our bands passed in the night) who played on a set of US Mercury drums for years, and they sounded great, mainly because he knew how to really tune a set of drums.

    Maybe I'm old school, but if you can tune, you can get the sound you want out of any set of decent drums.
    I've had birch kits,maple kits,birch/maple/birch(Ludwig epics),rims mounts,t.a.r. mounts,all nice sounding kits,I now have 3 mm fiberglass shells with bass drum mount and tom arms that stick into the drums(vintage kit)...sounds great
    Last edited by myk; 04-10-2014 at 05:21 AM.

  24. #74

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    Default Re: Tuning to the Shell Timbre (DWs John Good)

    Quote Originally Posted by Pearl MCX Man View Post
    Sometimes it is hard to understand the drum language when tuning I for one know that and I still haven't a clue what they mean tuning it to the drum or themselves. I just tune to the sound I like that the drum makes so I am not sure where that goes under in the drum terms. I hear DW have a note stamped inside the shell for easy tuning but that is ok if you know how to attain that tune. Anyway that is just me and I am sure there are drummers out there who feel the same as me towards tuning.
    One way to tune to a specific "note" or tone is with your Iphone and an app...another one is using something like a Tune-Bot electronic drum tuner that lets you see what "note" a drum is tuned to -. My Yamaha digital recorder has a function that sounds out a tone you choose... I tune my snares to a "G" or a "G#" - depending on what music Im playing.
    Yamaha Oak Custom 22x17 with Brass Kick Port, Brass Hoop Claws,10-12-14 racks, 16 Floor and all toms have Brass Hoops and a Tama Starclassic Bubinga Elite 14x6.5 snare in Quilted Mocha Burst and Black Nickel hardware. All hi-end Zildjian Cymbals - K Dark Thin crashes & splashes, a Zildjian A crash & a Meinl 16" crash, Avedis Zildjian 1964 ride, K Custom hats plus New Beat hats on Closed X-Hat.


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  25. #75

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    Default Re: Tuning to the Shell Timbre (DWs John Good)

    I read this entire thread and found it quite interesting. I am inclined to agree with those who say that it is impossible to tell the difference between brands and series of drums in a blind test. Of course, my hearing is so damaged from unprotected listening to rack at stupid volumes in my youth that any subtlety it may take to tell those differences is something I could never hope to hear.

    I do have a question, though. One area I tend to think makes some degree of sense is, perhaps, the degree of sustain a drum might have being dependent on the type of wood in the shell. Even that might be a fallacy, though, as I've found, in my extraordinarily limited experience, that the 'sustain' of a drum appears to be highly dependent on tuning. When I have been lucky enough to tune a drum to what seems to be its 'sweet spot', the drum 'sings' with an extended 'thrum'. Again, as so many have stated here, tuning is likely the key to everything, and while a maple shell may have a tendency to sustain longer than a birch shell, maybe the tuning has a greater effect than the wood. I have mentioned the idea of getting a new set of DW cherry drums, but I must admit that the reason a cherry kit appeals to me is mostly due to the beauty of a natural gloss lacquer over a cherry ply. That cherry is purported to be a compromise in tone between maple and birch is a nice concept, I suppose, and would be relevant to live compared to recording work, I'll never play out or record. So...for me, it's a case of how they look, rather than how they sound.
    Now, just a tiny bit less than an absolute drum newbie
    DW Collectors Cherry kit, Ludwig Black Beauty Snare, DW SuperSolid Oak/Cherry Snare, DW Sabian Vault Edge Snare

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